1228747 C.A.T.S. vs TunerPro difference in ECM Mask / *.xdf file??????

**EagleMark** · 02-06-2013

Do you have data logs of this?

You said"showing 121-126" I'm assuming a BLM or INT number... it's wrong at WOT in open loop. Now some ECM/PCM will stop cross counts in O2 sensor and you can get a steady reading, should be upper end like .850, not .121! This is just an idea! Not a good measurment!

I love the look!~ Sweet car! If you get it right you can take out the Wide Band, don't even need a gauge if you can log data with laptop and LogWorks! Or find a way to plumb it into the 12288747... then data stream, not sure if there is a usable AD port.

With the raised fuel pressure did you calculate and update the BPW?

**51caddyman** · 02-06-2013

OK sorry went home and played with things for a while making tiny tweaks and seeing if I could get bunch more data for you so first off here are the logs

as you stated i thought I'd try a tad more fuel and see so to 70-90 I (4800RPM) added 1% more fuel from my best to date tune:

32.jpg
Feel wise it felt about the same, maybe a tiny bit rougher. So just to be sure I added anther 1%, but that made it worse feel wise as well:

33.jpg

**51caddyman** · 02-06-2013

So I reloaded my starting BIN again and took 1% of fuel back and got this, feeling best up to 4800 as well, but still breaking up beyond that. Sorry I'm new to all this but what's the BPW? Darren got this this tune pretty close except for the higher RPM stuff, as I just added the governor mod kit from B & M to raise my shift point over the factory 4000 RPM:
34.jpg

**dave w** · 02-06-2013

Those look like WinALDL Screen Shots? I'm thinking the Wide 10 Average is showing Rich fuel mixtures in most places.

I'm better with TunerPRO RT .xdl files. The '8747 is a good ECM. In some ways I think the '8747 is better than the popular '7747.

dave w

**1project2many** · 02-06-2013

She's pulling very nicely all the way up to 4800K RPM

I don't have much to add except that anyone who can get a smallblock Chevy with TBI to pull all the way to four million eight hundred thousand rpm should be on the DIY nuclear particle collider board. ;)

Spark timing needs to increase as rpm increases. I don't have TP here to view the definitions but there should be a constant for spark rate, or high rpm spark ramp which usually needs to be adjusted to increase advance. The ecm will continue to add advance to the values in the highest RPM table as rpm increases at the rate entered in the constant. At WOT the 100kPa value is used as the basis. Since a stock TBI power curve usually starts to fall off where your engine is making power GM is usually conservative here. Without the right spark advance, no amount of fuel changes will make things right.

**51caddyman** · 02-06-2013

HA HA!!! sorry 48K OR 4800...

And I agree with you, after another set of pulls this am on the way to work i'm showing 127 in the BLM for 60-80KA at 4400-4800. It's got to be spark now...

**EagleMark** · 02-06-2013

Originally Posted by dave w

The '8747 is a good ECM. In some ways I think the '8747 is better than the popular '7747.

dave w

It's got bigger spark and fuel tables so that is better, but all else is same ECM. Problem is all the development went into 7747 because there are so many more of them. There's not much you can't do with a 7747.

Now here's one problem with 8747 and in 51Caddyman case a big problem. I know how to fix it in 7747, just run the ESC done patch and no more force knock test, no more PE delay.

How'd you like to have a monster motor build and the knock sensor may not be accurate or even work? Now you get the ESC test and it adds 11 degrees timing expecting a knock count? No knock count? No problem just add 22 degrees timing! He's at a tuning point where this could cause disaster! WIthout a wideband he'll never be able to see it happening, without a Spark Advance hack to see timing can't see it there either?

Have to find a way to test after adding one of these paremeters to the bin definition to get the test to stop!

Code:

  ;---------------------------------------------
        ; ERROR 43
        ;
        ; KNOCK FAIL
        ;---------------------------------------------
LD5A7   FCB  60     ; Min time since run enable, (120 sec)
LD5A8   FCB  235    ; PA count limit
LD5A9   FCB  23     ; EST fail test period, (2.3 sec)
LD5AA   FCB  3      ; 3 SEC's  ??
        ;---------------------------------------------
        ;---------------------------------------------
        ;
        ;
        ;---------------------------------------------
LD5AB   FCB  55     ;        
LD5AC   FCB  34   ;
        ;---------------------------------------------
        
        ;------------------------------
        ; ERR 43 PARAM'S
        ; KNOCK DET ERROR
        ;------------------------------
LD5AD   FCB  255    ; 99.6% TPS PWR ENR BYPASS ASSUM PWR ENR CONDITION
LD5AE   FCB  128    ; 3200 RPM UPPER LMT FOR ERR 43 TEST
LD5AF   FCB  195    ; 81 Kpa LOWER LMT FOR ERR 43 TEST 
     ;
LD5B0   FCB  34     ; 12 DEG SPK PWR ENR ADD TO CAUSE KNOCK 
LD5B1   FCB  63     ; 22 DEG SPK PWR ENR ADD TO CAUSE KNOCK, 2nd MODE PE
LD5B2   FCB  2      ; 2 KNOCKS, KNOCK LMT MIN (12.5 Msec Period's)

**EagleMark** · 02-06-2013

Originally Posted by 51caddyman

HA HA!!! sorry 48K OR 4800...

And I agree with you, after another set of pulls this am on the way to work i'm showing 127 in the BLM for 60-80KA at 4400-4800. It's got to be spark now...

Not necceserly! I tried to explain this earlier but I guess I wasn't clear or you didn't understand.

The BLM will lock at whatever number it is at when entering PE and won't change until you come out of PE. It's as worthless as tits on a bull for what you are using it for.

Also where are you adding fuel? Once your Ve table is in order you do not change it for what your doing. You need to add or subtract fuel for WOT in PE AFR table if you have PE set right so it enters and stays there at all.

What I'm getting at is you have no idea where your fueling is at this point and won't know until you get a Wide Band O2 sensor.

Also WinALDL is worthless as tits on a bull for what you are doing, it's like tuning in brail. Get TunerPro RT and have real data.

**51caddyman** · 02-06-2013

No, att least I thought I got you, so what I did to get her back out of PE (as i understand that is triggered off the TPS, right?) was pull her up to 4000 RPM pull back on the gas to hold there, then very gentle like give he a tad more until she gets up to the "bad" zone. Also seeing that ECM is so slow if i just stabbed her I wouldn;t get a reading at all from 3500 to 5000 and back to 3500 as all of that is about one second or less at full on full off. Also to note, the cam in there (Thumpr) required Darren to completely disable the knock sensor, as my idle would be enough to cause that to go into panic mode. I think the real issue here is spark; but as you said this is more of crystal ball tuning at this point. I thought with my chip i had to use WINALDL, is that not the case? Sorry i'm learning here... On the knock test, is there a way to set the start of the test up at 100ka? as I'm in CO I'd never ever ever see that, so that would bypass it. Just thinking out loud here.

**EagleMark** · 02-06-2013

OK good, so BLM is 126 before going into PE, good. But in PE you have no data!

Not sure I understand how a cam can cause knock sensor issues? But a BB knock sensor would help, if the engine makes noise setting it off you can add Teflon tape to threads to dampen or add a brass elbow to dampen. Also must have ESC to match knock sensor. Still may not work? But the ESC test has to be addressed!

TunerPro RT will give you all the BLM data that WinALDL does and all scan tool data too! Which do you think is better? Your at a point you need better tools, get TunerPRo, read this and get your files:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...is-a-must-read!-)

Look at some of the things that can be done with TunerPro RT all files are customizable:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ro-Tuning-Talk

Your only tool right now for seeing if your WOT high RPM fueling is close is do a WOT run, let off and turn engine off to coast to a stop, read spark plugs. Old School!

**51caddyman** · 02-06-2013

This is what my idle sounds like (granted that's not mine but darn close, I'm a little slower but same kinda hard chop) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7IJu8JLHBY, I would think that would be enough to make a knock sensor flip it's lid, you can feel it through the whole car. Downloaded tunerPro RT and reading right now. Thanks for all your help. Also I need to use a $4F mask file, not the $42, due to my chip, right (as it is on RT tuner CATS right now)?

**EagleMark** · 02-06-2013

Right $4F. get the ADX for data logging, the XDF for bin definition and then yuou can use your bin file.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-4F

**51caddyman** · 02-06-2013

Thank you so much!!! Question on the ESC Kock test (43); can i just turn that off here by un-X-ing? As the Knock sensor isn't hooked up, that's really only hurting and not helping me, right? see screenshot:
35.jpg