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Thread: 1228747 C.A.T.S. vs TunerPro difference in ECM Mask / *.xdf file??????

  1. #1
    Carb and Points!
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    1228747 C.A.T.S. vs TunerPro difference in ECM Mask / *.xdf file??????

    Hey Guys,
    I'm hoping someone can chime in here that might have solved this dilemma already...

    I have both C.A.T.S. RT Tuner and TunerPro RT on my computer (and yes, both paid for , gotta give 'em the support they deserve guys!!) and a 1228747 program that I am working with. I bought the $4F ECU Mask file from TunerCat, and downloaded the $4F-1228747-V1.xdf file from this site.
    My question is this: The Main VE table (super-duper, highly important) in CATS pulls in values completely differently than in TunerPro from the same BIN file. Now, I would think that the file I paid for was researched a little better, but I know better than that, lol. The VE table looks smoother and more realistic to me in CATS also. So I was going with that one as the one to work with. EXCEPT... the TunerPro version shows some really weird dropouts in the file, and the engine runs really rough at points then clears up then runs rough again. So that actually makes a little bit of sense to be the accuraet one. (TunerPro shows these weird dropouts even in a stock BIN pull though, which doesn't really compute...)
    I am inclined to think (at the moment at least) that the smoother VE table shown in CATS is the correct mask, and that I have something else going on with this particular engine.

    Sooo, has anyone else noticed this weirdness??

    -Darren

  2. #2
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    Here's a screenshot that shows the difference:
    MainVEtables_Compare.jpg

  3. #3
    Fuel Injected! gregs78cam's Avatar
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    Looks to me like one of them is pulling the values from the wrong locations. They should be exactly the same, unless the parameters are pointed at different locations. TunerPro is easy to check, TunerCats....??????, I don't know.
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

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    Look carefully. The values are correct. The positions are not. Tunerpro 1st rpm row = Tunercat 1st column. With main VE table selected in TP parameter tree, press F2 to edit parameters. In General settings, change major order from row to column and click apply. Now the numbers across the two tables match. Question is which orientation is correct. Also notice that TP has rpm as 0 through 4800 while TC has rpm 400 through 5200. Again, which is correct.

    Answer is simple. $4F disassembly matches TC. RPM values are listed as 400 through 5200. Using AKWH, 20 kPa entries should begin with 33.2% and increase to 58.59%.

    Corrected TP definition (ver 1.1) is now in the 8747 info thread.
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...2&d=1353391682

    Now for that all important payment. Whatcha workin on? ;)
    Last edited by 1project2many; 11-19-2012 at 11:12 PM.

  5. #5
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Nice work guys!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Look carefully. The values are correct. The positions are not. Tunerpro 1st rpm row = Tunercat 1st column. With main VE table selected in TP parameter tree, press F2 to edit parameters. In General settings, change major order from row to column and click apply. Now the numbers across the two tables match. Question is which orientation is correct. Also notice that TP has rpm as 0 through 4800 while TC has rpm 400 through 5200. Again, which is correct.

    Answer is simple. $4F disassembly matches TC. RPM values are listed as 400 through 5200. Using AKWH, 20 kPa entries should begin with 33.2% and increase to 58.59%.

    Corrected TP definition (ver 1.1) is now in the 8747 info thread.
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...2&d=1353391682

    Now for that all important payment. Whatcha workin on? ;)
    Just loaded up the new XDF file you made, awesome job!!! It never occurred to me that the values were the same, just located differently in the table, nice catch there! (I think I had been looking at it too long to see something so simple!! Lol) Anyways, I'm stoked to be able to use TunerPro for this now! Thank you so much!!

    As far as what I'm working on:
    The Engine:
    Small Block Chevy
    Eagle Crank, GM Rods, Speed Pro Pistons, Total Seal Rings, 0.030" over
    AFR Street Vortec Heads 2.02/1.60 valves, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifold
    Comp Cams full Roller Cam Conversion (0.513"/0.498" lift, 283/303 duration, 107 deg. LSA - Mild Thumpr Cam), Roller Rockers

    The TBI:
    1989 1228747 GM computer, Big Block Throttle Body, bored out as big as it can get, Big Block #5235231 fuel injectors, and around 28 psi fuel pressure at the moment

    The Car:
    1951 Cadillac 4-door, Original Green/Rust petina paint, polished stainless/chrome trim, Ridler Flat Black 20" Wheels, Nitto Tires...


    2012-11-13_17-35-03_126.jpg

    2012-11-14_18-32-07_385.jpg

    2012-05-09_12-01-14_571.jpg

    Thanks again!! :) -Darren

  7. #7
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    The Car:
    1951 Cadillac 4-door, Original Green/Rust petina paint, polished stainless/chrome trim, Ridler Flat Black 20" Wheels, Nitto Tires...
    Awesome. Very cool. That is why I love this forum.

  8. #8
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Oh that's sweet!

    When I saw your engine build specs I got worried at the ECM/Mask you chose, but took a look at it and someone has done a really good job there... besides 1project2many. Has all the right stuff like $42 and a way better Fuel VE table. The only thing that worries me with a motor like that is there is no ESC Done patch for that mask. May experiance some big knock during the test? There is a hack though so may be able to reduce spark for test or?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  9. #9
    Fuel Injected! jim_in_dorris's Avatar
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    When I was growing up, my Dad had a 1951 Cadillac convertible. It never even had a scratch put in it. He completely restored it while I was in college, and now somebody has it in a museum somewhere, I don't even know who he sold it to.
    Square body stepsides forever!!!

  10. #10
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    Ummm... that's cool but somewhat tragic as well. Stuff can usually be tracked down though if a person is truly interested.

  11. #11
    Fuel Injected!
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    Hey Guys,
    This is the owner of the above mentioned 51 caddy; I've been working on fine tuning for the caddy with my copy of RT tuner CATS. First off, thanks for the help you gave Darren to get this tune on track, it's really coming along nicely. That said, I have a question for you RT tuner CATS guru's here. She's pulling very nicely all the way up to 4800K RPM then from 5000+ she starts to struggle... However the main fuel vs. VE stops at 4800 and the main spark advance table stops at 4400. How to i get this program to provide additional RPM to tune with? Is this even an option with this program? Ideally I would like this to go all the way up to 6200 or at least 6000. My cam, intake, and heads are all made for power in the 2000-6000 range. I looked all around this site and didn't see anything posted for this yet. Thanks in advance for your help to this issue.

    info:
    1228747 program
    The Engine:
    Small Block Chevy
    Eagle Crank, GM Rods, Speed Pro Pistons, Total Seal Rings, 0.030" over
    AFR Street Vortec Heads 2.02/1.60 valves, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifold
    Comp Cams full Roller Cam Conversion (0.513"/0.498" lift, 283/303 duration, 107 deg. LSA - Mild Thumpr Cam), Roller Rockers

    The TBI:
    1989 1228747 GM computer, Big Block Throttle Body, bored out as big as it can get, Big Block #5235231 fuel injectors, and around 28 psi fuel pressure at the moment

    The Car:
    1951 Cadillac 4-door, Original Green/Rust petina paint, polished stainless/chrome trim, Ridler Flat Black 20" Wheels, Nitto Tires... CW @ 4200 LBS

    30.jpg

    31.jpg

  12. #12
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    It should use the last entry in 4800 RPM row for fuel.

    Code:
    D82A:  LD82A     LDAB    L001B      ; RPM/25, (ROW ARG)
    D82C:            CMPB    #192       ; CK IF GT 4800 RPM
    D82E:            BLS     LD832
     ;                                  ;  
    D830:            LDAB    #192       ; USE 4800 RPM MAX FOR Lk UP
    D832:  LD832     LDX     #$D37B     ; VE1 FUEL TABLE
    D835:            JSR     LFB0B      ; 3d LK UP
    Do you have a fuel pressure gauge or wide band O2 sensor to see if it is running out of fuel?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  13. #13
    Fuel Injected!
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    I'm using the narrow band via winALDL logging for checking. Last pull she did, the CPU was still leaning it up just a hair around 4400-5000K showing 121-126 for those sectors (70-80Ka aka foot down hard here in Colorado, the land of no air).

  14. #14
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Narrow band is a very b ad way to check that, most ECM it's not even working in PE, PE is closed loop so no INT/STFT or BLM/LTFT it just reads the last thing it saw before going into PE.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  15. #15
    Fuel Injected!
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    OK that is very good to know... I'll add that to my next list of parts to buy, I was thinking of stealth mounting one inside my driver's side faux spot light, as putting a digital gauge on the dash of a 51 would go against the "look" I'm after; most (lay-people) see the motor and think it's a carb anyways... Exactly what I'm going for... Sneaky. Should I fatten up the fuel 1% at a time and keep trying? All the spark plugs look very good, not lean or rich looking.

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