I must be in Waaay over my head

[NomakeWan]

The problem with adjusting the MAF tables is that you need actual data to do that. That's why I didn't suggest adjusting any tables to get your tune right. I'm not going to be able to help you if your tune is just plain wrong; someone will have to actually help you re-tune the car.

But my assumption here is that your existing tune is close enough that if your issue is just a lean condition, you can increase fuel across the board and leave the individual tune tables alone. That's why I suggested adjusting the two Injector Size values (make sure they both match each other!!!) instead. By adjusting the injector size value to be smaller than your real injector size, it fools the computer into spraying more fuel, but keeping all the same adjustments for RPM, coolant temp, etc etc etc.

[MadMikeZ28]

Actual MAF data as in what is really entering the motor and not what the MAF says in a data log?

The tune I tried adjusting the injector size and max advance limit was the stock APYN bin that I had also copy and pasted the ARAP timing table to earlier. But with the ARAP timing table (where some values did not change that you explained why earlier) and the Max Spark and Injector sizes changed to the values in my previous post, there was no change in the AFR.

I did not drive it, I let it run for about 5 minutes and put it in drive when I checked for an AFR change.

The tune that was made up for me, while the valve train was failing, the tuner labeled it ARAP. I assume he just labeled it that for the ARAP timing tables he started with. He would inform me that he was adjusting the timing and MAF tables after I would send him a data log. If this is not the actual data, what is a person doing while they tune? Best guess?

I did not mention that I also changed the cam. I only mentioned the heads and how the O2 side was failing so you would get an idea as to why I suspected the tune went from a good AFR to a lean AFR.

What do others actually do when they tune for something like a head and cam swap?

The last bin you attached, ARAP, fans still on and no start.

I would attach the bin he made that I use but I don't see where to attach here.... may have found how to attach. May have attached twice.

[steveo]

What do others actually do when they tune for something like a head and cam swap?

same we do when we tune for any major engine modification

first i usually try to make it idle well so it doesn't just coke up or rinse the rings clean while we're playing with it. experimentation with idle speed and timing is required for that

then we usually log for afr errors outside of power enrichment (cruise areas, light load) and tune to correct the errors and hit the fueling targets (whether that be a maf or ve table or injector constant, all those modify fueling output)

while we're driving we also look at transitional fueling if it seems a bit laggy or stumbly during throttle changes (acceleration enrichment) or if it pops and farts if you cut the throttle abruptly (decel enleanment or decel fuel cutoff)

now that we can drive it somewhere to really lay the throttle down we log for afr errors in power enrichment (wideband) and attempt to achieve a balance between safety and peak power during power enrichment

at the same time we modify the timing tables to suit the new combustion chamber and cam. usually add or subtract timing in cruise range until it's smooth and burning all the fuel you're feeding it, and for wide open throttle or high load areas we usually find the point that knock occurs and back it off a bit from there. timing takes a lot of practice and sometimes just experience, some engines like tons of timing and some don't, also the burn rate of your fuel is a huge factor so you're tuning for a particular fuel octane here

then we might repeat the process one more time because timing and AFR affect each other a bit, so once your timing is dialed your AFR might not be quite right

[MadMikeZ28]

then we usually log for afr errors outside of power enrichment (cruise areas, light load) and tune to correct the errors and hit the fueling targets (whether that be a maf or ve table or injector constant, all those modify fueling output)

I never logged with the AFR gauge input into the data log. I asked the person tuning how to do so as if memory serves me, my AEM gauge has an output for do that. He informed me that people usually delete the EGR and use that portion of the data stream. I need my EGR so I asked about eliminating the EGR diagnostic (the temp sensor on the EGR valve). In so many words he just told me it was more complicated than I think. Which may be true.

I think he just tuned by watching the BLM. And I think he got it done pretty good that way as the AFR gauge would be around 14.7 at idle and part throttle cruising. But as I mentioned in previous post, that was done during the valve train failing. Valve train fixed now. Running lean now and I need to fix that.

[NomakeWan]

The last bin you attached, ARAP, fans still on and no start.

That is incredibly peculiar. If it were my car, the next thing I'd do is check error codes. If it's throwing an ECM PROM Fault error code then I know something's super wrong with the BIN and/or chip and can stop diagnostics there.

If it's not throwing that code, next thing I'd do is isolate all devices connected to the D11 pin to make sure nothing external is commanding the fans to turn on. If that didn't resolve the fan issue, I'd then check the ALDL datastream to see if the ECM is indeed commanding the fan or not (if it is not commanding the fan and the fan is coming on anyway, then either the XDF has the setting inverted, or there's a short-circuit across the fan relay).

[MadMikeZ28]

That is incredibly peculiar. If it were my car, the next thing I'd do is check error codes. If it's throwing an ECM PROM Fault error code then I know something's super wrong with the BIN and/or chip and can stop diagnostics there.

If it's not throwing that code, next thing I'd do is isolate all devices connected to the D11 pin to make sure nothing external is commanding the fans to turn on. If that didn't resolve the fan issue, I'd then check the ALDL datastream to see if the ECM is indeed commanding the fan or not (if it is not commanding the fan and the fan is coming on anyway, then either the XDF has the setting inverted, or there's a short-circuit across the fan relay).

I drive this car (1989 Camaro Tuned Port 350 automatic). It is when I try those bins you provided (and the ARAR I got from this forum) is no start and fans on. I put those bins on the same Memcals that I use when I drive the car. The car starts and fans operate normal when I tried your suggestion of adjusting the Max Spark and Inj sizes. But I did that to the stock bin which I got from reading my stock Memcal.

My tuner told me there was something backwards about the Corvette bin. I assumed it was just that flag Fan N/O. Maybe there are other things. Maybe he used my stock bin and ARAP timing tables as a start point. Maybe he used the Hypertech bin as I do recall mailing that Memcal to him becuase he wanted to read it.

[NomakeWan]

I hope he didn't use the Hypertech bin. Hypertech everything is hacky trash.

I'm not blaming you here; I'm just saying that if it were my car and that were happening, I'd run through a few diagnostic steps to be sure I knew where the problem was, that's all.

I do wish you the best of luck getting this sorted.

[MadMikeZ28]

I don't think he used the Hypertech bin. He was making me tunes before I mailed that memcal to him.

I know you're not blaming me. But if my reading lamp has a 40watt bulb and it is too dim to read by. I take that bulb out and put a 60watt in and it does not work. To continue using the lamp I put the 40watt back in. I am not going to go check the breaker, pull the outlet to check the wires and disassemble the lamp to diagnose why the 60watt bulb did not work.

I am assuming you got the ARAP as well as the whacky ARAR bin from this forum? I think there may be fault in that ARAP bin as well. Looking at your signature, 90-95 Corvettes. I am thinking you did not test these bins.

I noticed there are more fan settings in the scalers, I think is where I saw them. I think it was on and off temps with ac on and ac off. I compared those. But I think there may be some other setting im not seeing.
Like Fan vs The Mole People or something.

I do have the stock bin off my memcal, the hypertech and numerous bins from my tuner since he started having me burn my own memcals. I will just pick one and go in blind to see if I can make something work.

I do appreciate the help though. Taught me more about some of the tuning than my tuner did. I do appreciate his efforts as well. I helped him with advice and procedures with mechanical and provided some items as well. He helped me a lot with my tune. I may have been fine if it were not for the valve spring issue and his giving up on me.

[stew86MCSS396]

The mere fact that your fans kick on at key on, tells me there's something wrong with the EPROM. Telltale sign would be a rapid flashing SES light. I don't think it's the bins on this forum but perhaps something you might be doing wrong burning the bin onto the EPROM. Maybe I'm too lazy to read all the back post but have you shared which burner you're using as well as which E/EPROMS you're using??? Could be something as simple as using the wrong offsets or inserting the EPROMS into the burner wrong. Could be you're not erasing the EPROMS and doing a blank check. Idk I'm not there and can't see what you're doing.