It's been a LONG time

**Bart_3500** · 10-06-2023

Yes, I was a registered member some 10 to maybe 15 years ago. I join back then when I had/(still have) a '66 FORD Bronco with GM TBI. It's worked fine, without having to touch it all these years. Well, now I'm restoring my DAD's 1970 Chevy Chevelle Sport coupe. Currently, the body is stripped to bare steel, gutted of all interior, power train sitting on stands while the body is at the paint shop.
Now to my power train issues. The original is a 307/350/10 bolt. In looking around for a machine shop to rebuild the 307 I got a quote of $3,500 JUST for the machine work without any reassemble. A friend told me about a mechanic in another town who might have a better lead on a reasonable (in my eyes) machinist. This guy let me know that he had a short block 350 4 bolt main with a steel crank. $150! He told me, as many others on a Chevelle site, that the cost to rebuild is the same for a 307 as a 350. As I already had the 4 bolt engine why not. The "friend" has a brother who donated a pair of Vortec heads. Back to the mechanic who said that "he thought" a company name Jasper who rebuild/exchange my combo for around $3K. I have not heard the final on that yet (350 4 bolt with vortec heads).
Now to the fuel system. I'd like (and do like) the GM TBI used on the 80s/90s vehicles.
I'd like recommendations on the year make and model that would be the best donor. I'm also interested in if anyone has a complete system sitting around they'd like to part with. I'll post that request in the "Wanted" section after this Re introduction.

**dave w** · 10-06-2023

There are many options for a SBC engine, maybe some options are more budget friendly than others.

The Vortec 5.7 1996 ~ 2002 is a strong contender for a budget friendly option. All Vortec 5.7's have roller camshaft, a HUGE must have with the current engine oil formulas being sold now. It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, the 1996 ~ 2002 5.7 Vortec will have Vortec heads and one piece rear main seals.

There are several EFI options for a Vortec 5.7, including the LS1 computer with the coil on plug ignition system. My daily driver 1999 S10 4WD has a Vortec 5.7 with the LS1 computer and coil on plug ignition system.

Seemingly $3500 is sizeable budget for building an EFI SBC.

Stuff I have for sale: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...SBC-EFI-System

**Bart_3500** · 10-08-2023

Interesting (interested). How do I identify what year these Vortec heads are?

**dave w** · 10-08-2023

Originally Posted by Bart_3500

Interesting (interested). How do I identify what year these Vortec heads are?

https://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-s...-reader-guide/

**Sledhead2** · 10-09-2023

Not to be a party popper on the classic small block. I have spent a lot of time on an 80 Camaro with a 350 rebuilding the engine and a lot of other stuff.
I also have some experience swapping and LS in a GTO. I hate to say it but go with a LS and run computer.

The LS will get light years better gas mileage and power, plus you will be doing a complete new harness either way, you can get a plug and play harness for LS converting the Chevelle.

FYI the GTO just has a stock 98 LS out of a Vette, 6 speed manual, and 4;10 gears. Stock Vette HP was 385, tuned in the GTO it came out to 395 or so.
Car rolls 80 MPH, @ 2000 RPMs, in 6th gear and gets 25 + mpg if you keep your foot out of it, but what fun is that.

**steveo** · 10-10-2023

the choice of engine is a very personal thing.

it's good to pick a power goal that'll last the life of the car, and a budget, and some other goals, and 'tune' your engine platform choice to that.

personally i've never played with LS engines much because my power goals are lower and so is my budget

250-350hp and super cheap? iron 350 sbc platform for sure. tbi is a good option there because it's super cheap, people throw them away at the junk yard.

350+hp? ls platform for sure. it's where all the good performance parts are.

good in between (medium cost, medium power?) lt1 with the right heads and cam, and tune the thing for free

**1project2many** · 10-10-2023

It sounds like you've found a good start on a strong smallblock. LS swaps are super popular these days and there are a lot of reasons why. But there are some good reasons to choose the older engine. First, if you are familiar with SBC and you know what interchanges, you won't have any surprises staying with what you know. Second, if you're in an area where folks have been collecting SBC parts for years or are willing to throw SBC parts at you cheap then you have a good source of parts. Third, you might not want folks to say "Oh. Another LS swap" with a sigh of disappointment when you open the hood.

I think you're on the way to a great start by choosing Vortec heads. I have worked with Jasper in the past and they are usually pretty good. Some of the rebuilt engines and transmissions we've gotten from them have had problems, but they've always been good about making it right. I am not aware of a performance program at Jasper so I would recommend doing some research. Vortec heads were used on trucks and vans beginning in 1996 and ending in 2002. Many of the one ton vehicles, and especially the one-ton vans and cube vans, came with 4 bolt main 350 blocks. Some of these engines may also have a steel crank as although I have not seen one in 20 years of maintaining a fleet of vans.

The original engines used with Vortec heads did not use the same crank as engines built before 1986. If the engine your machinist is offering you is a 1985 or older engine it will have a "two piece rear main seal." This engine may not qualify as a core for a late model engine with Vortec heads.

1996 - 2002 Vortec heads have a unique intake manifold bolt pattern. TBI intake manifolds for older engines will not bolt up to the Vortec heads. Aftermarket new TBI intakes for Vortec heads appear to be priced from $430 - $650! That might take some of the "Cheap" out of a budget EFI swap. There are other solutions that include using a carburetor intake manifold with a Vortec bolt pattern and an adapter for TBI, or using a Vortec pattern port fuel injection manifold.

I think Steveo's suggestion to think about the power level is a good one. You can build a reliable, mild engine with TBI that makes more power than Dad's old 307. Finding a late model block that accepts roller lifters will realy help! Roller lifters allow more agressive cams than flat lifters.

Also interesting is that you can use the 307 crank in a, older 350 block to make a 327. The pistons will be more expensive than 350 pistons and the crank will need balancing, but people love a Chevelle with a 327.

Sometimes the task of collecting all the right parts to build an engine is half the fun. Unfortunately when it comes to SBC there are very few stock engines built after 1988 that put all those pieces together in one package. If you're looking for a "plug and play" answer it might be worth looking into an LS swap.

**Bart_3500** · 10-10-2023

Thanks Sledhead but I'm not looking for FAST. My Dad's Chevelle is destined to be a cruiser not a muscle car. Coming on the Interstate may require a burst of power to merge in would be my only real need for extra H.P.

**Bart_3500** · 10-10-2023

Originally Posted by steveo

the choice of engine is a very personal thing.

it's good to pick a power goal that'll last the life of the car, and a budget, and some other goals, and 'tune' your engine platform choice to that.

personally i've never played with LS engines much because my power goals are lower and so is my budget

250-350hp and super cheap? iron 350 sbc platform for sure. tbi is a good option there because it's super cheap, people throw them away at the junk yard.

350+hp? ls platform for sure. it's where all the good performance parts are.

good in between (medium cost, medium power?) lt1 with the right heads and cam, and tune the thing for free

A power and budget engine is what I'm shooting for. As the original 307/2 barrel reported to have 200 H.P. and did fine. One thing for sure is that it wasn't a ticket getter. Being that the new paint job will be a bright red, that attracts attention (both from the public and the LEOs) medium power/budget is a smarter move. Also, this is not the only vehicle in my stable. Included is a '57 Ford Fairlane 500, "3" early Broncos (66, 69 & 75), '91 Z28 Camaro (wife's car), 2002 Ford F350 Long Bed crew cab dually 7.3 dually Powerstroke Diesel, 2017 Ford Flex (another wife's car), 99 Jeep Cherokee (foul weather vehicle) and last but not least is my 2013 Harley Electrica Glide Classic. I didn't mention a tractor or 2 boats or the 12' truck bed mounted camper. All this keeps me hopping, especially when one of them goes down. Lets not talk about insurance!! Just the mention sends the wife into orbit! Her problem is that she can't decide what to get rid of. Gotta love that girl!
BTW, Sledhead, in her youth she had a '69 GTO (got her an exhibition of speed ticket) and a '57 Ford Fairlane 500. So she's kind of a gear head also. Lucky ME!!!
So anyway, back to the main theme of this. I'm leaning towards the 350 with the Vortec heads and TBI. I also have a 700R4 trans sitting in the wings that may go in to make for highway cruising.
I too have always loved the 327 setup.
1project, how many Jasper engines have you dealt with?
We have a unique wrecking yard here in West Texas in that I can just drive my vehicle in and go find what I want. Kinda like honesty is the by word here. Some may try to screw them over but I don't want to abuse it. I don't know if they are watching, but I know GOD is watching (another "don't want to mess around there").

**Sledhead2** · 10-10-2023

Note you do not need to focus on GM vortex heads, they are prone to cracks and some other minor problems.

All after market heads are based on Vortex design now, thus buy new heads might be cheaper and easier in long run. Also most aftermarket heads come with both intake manifold bolt patterns. If you didn't know vortex heads do not have same intake bolt pattern as classic small block.

The Options are endless: https://www.google.com/search?q=vort...t=gws-wiz-serp

I bought these: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/d...QaAoKqEALw_wcB

**Bart_3500** · 10-11-2023

At $1300 for the pair I don't think they are inexpensive. A friend "gave" me a pair of Vortec heads that should serve me just fine. There's a lot of intake choices out there. If I 'ever' get done with this sprinkler system repair (sceptic tank installers cut all three lines feeding the front yard), then covered everything up and left it. That was before I purchased the house and didn't know what happened for a while. What with all the vehicle repairs, maintenance, and moving in (looking for everything) I haven't had time to think about sprinklers until now. Thanks for the reply and the thoughts.
I am leaning towards getting another 307 crank and making the 350 into a 327.

**1project2many** · 10-11-2023

1project, how many Jasper engines have you dealt with?

Probably 8-10 over a 20 year period. Not a huge number by any means.

**Bart_3500** · 10-13-2023

Do you know if Jasper would/will build a semi custom engine? That is, use the 350 block, with Vortec heads and a 307 crank.

**1project2many** · 10-14-2023

I am not sure about having a custom engine built. They have a page that talks about "Custom Engines" but it seems to be about having an original engine rebuilt just like it was new, and about getting the rebuilder documentation with it.

I tried looking up a 327 using a few different OEM vehicles. They show the engines but there's no prices so I imagine they have trouble getting cores. A 1970 2bbl 350 "basic" engine is tickling $3000 before shipping. You'd get $520 back when you send back a good core but that's still a bunch to have up front.

They do offer some performance packages. There's a 300 hp 350 with Vortec heads that looks like it might be good. I'm having trouble figuring out how to find a price so I'd probably have to call in for one. I believe they only sell to dealers in their network so you'd want to be close to one.

Thinking about this, I realized that Jasper is based in Indiana. Wouldn't it be cheaper in terms of shipping to find a rebuilder that is closer? When I lived in MT we would use S&S Engines. It looks like they've merged with another company and are going by S&J engines these days. Maybe this company is an option?

**Bart_3500** · 10-14-2023

Thanks for the reply. Some very useful information here. There is a rebuilder out of Dallas/Fort Worth area that advertises around $2K for a rebuild (of my 307). Should be the same for a 350. I believe I'll be looking into that. Since the mechanic (business owner) who suggested Jasper has not called back in several weeks, I guess he forgot about it or ????
Thanks for the thoughts on this.