It definitely needs the PCM put into open loop, the canister purge valve disabled, the DFCO disabled and needs a good VE table adjustment. Fueling alone could be causing most of his issues.Originally Posted by dave w
It definitely needs the PCM put into open loop, the canister purge valve disabled, the DFCO disabled and needs a good VE table adjustment. Fueling alone could be causing most of his issues.
I'm not to good with Excel. What is the easiest way to copy the csv info to the worksheet? My csv from a log today has columns in a different order than the work sheet. I copy and pasted individual columns to make it work, but that could take forever on a longer log. Is there a quick way to move columns so the whole page can be copy/pasted quickly?
Are you saying that based off Dave's screenshot or my logs? I don't think his screenshot was of any of my logging.
Maybe this will help
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-with-WIDEBAND
No need to re-invent the wheel. But we can make it better
The attached .adx is the one I use for the WBO2 spreadsheet.
Please post a short data log using the attached .adx to verify TunerPro RT settings and spreadsheet are working correctly.
Thanks, I figured it out though. Mine was adding columns for lambda and wbo2 voltage so it threw the columns off. Just left those out when exporting.
Now my question with this process is... I've made one set of corrections using this so far and it didn't seem to change AFR much, if any. Isn't the pcm going to keep correcting itself with blms as I change VE tables? So for example if my truck is currently cruising at a blm of 128, and WBO2 is saying 15.5. If I increase VE table slightly, the PCM is going to move to a lower BLM and WBO2 won't move right? Or am I thinking about this all wrong?
The screen captures below are from a California tune I helped with a few years ago. Several data logs (same chip / one week of data logs to/from work) were combined for a total of about 120,000 records. The conclusion I see is BLM's and AFR's contradict each other.
Surrounding fuel table cells affect each other, interpolation is needed. I think an engine at light load and low RPM's needs less fuel than an engine at heavy load and high RPM's. I think an engine accelerating from ZERO MPH to 70 MPM needs more fuel than an engine maintaining 70 MPH, which causes peaks and valleys in the fuel table.
Basically, adding more fuel to a fuel table cell lowers the WBO2 AFR (more rich). For example fuel cell 70 KPa / 2400 RPM is currently 65 with 15.2 AFR. The math is 15.2 (actual AFR) /14.7 (desired AFR) = 1.034014 The correction is 65 x 1.034014 = 67.21088 I simply IGNORE what BLM's do when I tune with WBO2. I consider WBO2 a more accurate tool.
Some tuners use WBO2 open loop only, which might be necessary to pass emission? Typically an AFR of 14.7 is optimal for emission testing with E10 fuel.
BLM - Near Idle.jpg
Near Idle.jpg
BLM - Off Idle.jpg
Off Idle.jpg
I appreciate the help so far Dave. My fuel tables are now starting to exceed 100 at fairly low RPM, and I still need more fuel. I've already lied and set injector flow rate as 59.... is it ok to lower that number any more or should something else be changed? I know you don't have the time to be going through my tunes for me. I just feel like there's settings somewhere that need to be changed and I don't know about them yet lol here's my last log and the bin to go with it, if you have the time to look.
Unfortunately you are using a different .adx than I use.
Injector flow rates are like apples, oranges, and bananas.
What an injector is rated to flow? . . . Apples
What an injector is actually flowing? . . . Oranges
What injector flow rate to program in the .bin file? . . . Bananas
Typically all the above questions will have different answers.
I settle on an injector flow rate that provides a mix of both lean and rich in the data log. If the data log shows all lean, I change injector flow for rich. If the data log shows all rich, I change injector flow for lean. At some point there will a mix of both rich and lean in the data log; at that point it's time to fix the VE Table.
Typically, low RPM's are rich and higher RPM's are lean. It's very odd the lower RPM are lean. Possibly one of the injectors is problematic?
I do my fuel setup a different way. I increase fuel delivery until it is rich under load at WOT at max rpm while keeping the duty cycle under 90%, preferably 80%. Then I pull fuel as needed with the VE table. I generally keep the fuel injector sizing in line with what the injector calculates to flow or flows on a bench. I habe really never felt a need to lie to the PCM about the flow rate or cubic inch of the engine. Get the injectors flowing sufficiently for WOT, then dial back the idle/part throttle stuff as needed.Unfortunately you are using a different .adx than I use.
Injector flow rates are like apples, oranges, and bananas.
What an injector is rated to flow? . . . Apples
What an injector is actually flowing? . . . Oranges
What injector flow rate to program in the .bin file? . . . Bananas
Typically all the above questions will have different answers.
I settle on an injector flow rate that provides a mix of both lean and rich in the data log. If the data log shows all lean, I change injector flow for rich. If the data log shows all rich, I change injector flow for lean. At some point there will a mix of both rich and lean in the data log; at that point it's time to fix the VE Table.
Typically, low RPM's are rich and higher RPM's are lean. It's very odd the lower RPM are lean. Possibly one of the injectors is problematic?
Even when I had a TPI system with 28 lb/hr LT4 injectors running in TBI mode, I set the injector flow rate for 112 lb/hr and started tuning the VE tables.
Last edited by Fast355; 05-10-2023 at 07:29 AM.
So, I figured out this morning that my logs aren't actually reading WBO2. For some reason it's still logging battery voltage. Feel like an idiot for that.Unfortunately you are using a different .adx than I use.
Injector flow rates are like apples, oranges, and bananas.
What an injector is rated to flow? . . . Apples
What an injector is actually flowing? . . . Oranges
What injector flow rate to program in the .bin file? . . . Bananas
Typically all the above questions will have different answers.
I settle on an injector flow rate that provides a mix of both lean and rich in the data log. If the data log shows all lean, I change injector flow for rich. If the data log shows all rich, I change injector flow for lean. At some point there will a mix of both rich and lean in the data log; at that point it's time to fix the VE Table.
Typically, low RPM's are rich and higher RPM's are lean. It's very odd the lower RPM are lean. Possibly one of the injectors is problematic?
I must have missed a setting somewhere?
I was sitting in the parking lot at work and flipped desired afr to 13. Engine obviously changed and wideband gauge dropped but laptop didn't.
Given what I know now I think I'm going to have to borrow a fuel pressure Guage to verify fuel pressure and start tuning from scratch, once I figure out why log isn't getting WBO2. I did follow instructions in the definition notes but maybe I forgot something?
So, it's not battery voltage. For some reason the gage is displaying correct afr but the data log is is always showing about 1.3-2 points higher. Anyone had this issue? Do I need to try a different definition file or something? Things just aren't adding up
I'm no help on the tuning side, all I remember from the emissions testing days, back before we could turn anything. just bolted on parts and went lol. but adding a electric smog pump from the lt1. camaros and dumping it into the exhaust, we always passed even with gutted cats.
ours was easy test thou, idle only, unless it failed at idle they would run it up on the rollers and test it.
The attached files might help, .adx and .xdl from a vehicle using WBO2 (AEM 30-4110) https://www.aemelectronics.com/produ...uego-afr-gauge
Dave that's the same gauge I'm using. I'm wondering if my output ground is what is messing it up. Because the gauge itself is reading correct but it really if ever will go below 15 in the log. I set desired AFR really low today on the way home from work, just to make sure. And again it rarely reads below 15. I logged the trip home with the same adx you posted, so ill put that here. Ive 2x and triple checked that the bin settings are exactly the way the notes described. I'm going to go check wires right now now and maybe try a different ground for the output. I also borrowed a fuel pressure gauge, so Ill verify that in the morning. Ill report back if I figure anything out
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