Adding WBO2 to 1227747

[dave w]

I've read through this post http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...light=wideband which talks about using WBO2 with the AutoProm. The question I have is there a way to get the WBO2 data into the data stream without the AutoProm. I have attached a '7747 WBO2 .adx file, but I did not see any notes on were to input the WBO2 0 ~ 5 volt signal? I'm using an Innovate MTX-L WBO2. The attached .adx seems to be already setup for the MTX-L.

Any help is greatly appreciated,

dave w

[RobertISaar]

i really don't see how it's possible unless internal mods were done....

here is the input schematic to a 7747: http://www.exatorq.com/ludis_obd1/1228746sheet3.gif

notice the analog inputs:

diagnostc circuit(ALLD pin B)
MAT
CTS
TPS
MAP
ignition voltage
pump voltage
O2

now, check the actual A/D chip here: http://www.exatorq.com/ludis_obd1/1228746sheet2.gif

bottom right corner, you'll see a couple of analog channels that are tied to ground. you would either need to reconfigure those channels and modify the algorithm to read those channels and put them in the datastream or replace one of the existing A/D inputs with the wideband signal, and even then, that can require internal mods as well.

[EagleMark]

The WBO2 value in the ADX posted will not work. It has a Packet Offset of 69 and 7747 only has 20. I think someone copied that in from like 16197427 or?

Not sure how the ECM would respond if you changed an input like fuel pump voltage, ignition voltage. Can't change CTS, MAP or TPS or ECM could be reading wrong data, may be able to with some hacking but sounds like a lot of work?

Best choice I see is MAT since 7747 does not use it! If the pin is available and circuts are in ECM then just need to find how to get it into data stream and make a hack to replace something worthless in data stream like the other ones we have worked on in my $42. There's not much room to add stuff here.

If you can get the power in MAT, maybe Robert could help us find it through hardware, Greg has taught me a lot on this and I'm sure would help. I would be willing to help do the XDF hack and ADX value.

[RobertISaar]

here's the (potentially) only problem with the MAT input: it uses a 1K resistor to pull the circuit up to 5V. that resistor would need to be moved around to pull the circuit down to ground, otherwise a really funky signal is going to be generated.

then just need to impliment a small patch that will read the MAT sensor circuit, place it in RAM, then mod the datastream to output the RAM location of wherever the WB voltage was stored.

i make it sound easier than it is, but i've also done it quite a few times with the P4s(and P6s and P66s). doing code patches with the C3 is new to me. i imagine i could take a peak at the 7747 hack and figure it out quickly enough though, their instruction set is ~95% identical to the 6811.

then it's up to whoever has a 7747 laying around to pop it open and do the resistor movement and they'll have a WB 7747. or could use it for a lot of other sensors. the 160 baud rate is definitely going to be the limiting factor though.

[EagleMark]

Do you see anywhere we could add one without ECM modification? It would be a handy trick.

I've just tuned to 80 MAP with PE off, then check PE drivability, if all is well then use WB gauge for WOT to adjust PE AFR. Don't really think the data every 1.2 seconds is going to be a huge help that guys are used to with faster data.

[RobertISaar]

not that i can see..... well, maybe. :) the only analog inputs that aren't pulled up via a resistor are TPS, MAP and pump voltage.

narrowband O2 has a voltage multiplier of 4.5 to bring the 0-1.1 volt signal up to the 5 volt range that the A/D system works off of... you SHOULD be able to setup a resistor based voltage divider to bring the wideband O2 voltage range from 0-5V to 0-1.1V to make it readable via the narrowband O2 circuit(which will amplify it up to the 0-5V range again), which is already in the datastream IIRC. just have to disable closed loop and add the item into the ADX and you'll be done.

the voltage divider would be ~2 high tolerance resistors(1% should be fine) and can be done externally of the ECM. that meet your needs?

[dave w]

not that i can see..... well, maybe. :) the only analog inputs that aren't pulled up via a resistor are TPS, MAP and pump voltage.

narrowband O2 has a voltage multiplier of 4.5 to bring the 0-1.1 volt signal up to the 5 volt range that the A/D system works off of... you SHOULD be able to setup a resistor based voltage divider to bring the wideband O2 voltage range from 0-5V to 0-1.1V to make it readable via the narrowband O2 circuit(which will amplify it up to the 0-5V range again), which is already in the datastream IIRC. just have to disable closed loop and add the item into the ADX and you'll be done.

the voltage divider would be ~2 high tolerance resistors(1% should be fine) and can be done externally of the ECM. that meet your needs?

Here's an idea, the MTX-L provides a simulated NBO2 0.1 ~ 1.1 VDC output that could replace the existing NB input. From the Inovate MTX-L Manual

"Analog output two (brown) is 1.1V = 14 AFR and .1V = 15 AFR. This is a simulated narrowband signal"

So I'm thinking I can disable the Closed Loop, but I'll need help with the .adx

dave w

[RobertISaar]

that's not much of a range to deal with... you'll only have a 14-15 AFR signal, but if you're only tuning for a perfect 1.0 lambda, it might be enough.

the ADX portion is fairly easy(upload/link to yours?), but based on those swing points, you could probably get more done with closed loop, since BLM and INT will update at a significantly higher speed than the 160 baud stream will allow you to watch the WB AFR.

[dave w]

that's not much of a range to deal with... you'll only have a 14-15 AFR signal, but if you're only tuning for a perfect 1.0 lambda, it might be enough.

the ADX portion is fairly easy(upload/link to yours?), but based on those swing points, you could probably get more done with closed loop, since BLM and INT will update at a significantly higher speed than the 160 baud stream will allow you to watch the WB AFR.

The .adx I posted at the start of the tread is the only WBO2 .adx I have for a '7747. The MTX-L offers programming options for the simulated NB. I'd like to see what happens with the Default MTX-L settings, then reprogram later.

dave w

[EagleMark]

That may work as the O2 sensor voltage is a conversion from native. No narrow band simulater, just OL and feed the WB into it.

Here's a test ADX for it. Use AutoProm channel 1 AFR and Volts for your data as it is set to O2 sensor packet offset right now. Settings are correct for LC1 WB may need to be changed for others.

[EagleMark]

I still think your wasting time though? Just tune it and do WOT from the gauge with PE AFR adjustments.

[dave w]

That may work as the O2 sensor voltage is a conversion from native. No narrow band simulater, just OL and feed the WB into it.

Here's a test ADX for it. Use AutoProm channel 1 AFR and Volts for your data as it is set to O2 sensor packet offset right now. Settings are correct for LC1 WB may need to be changed for others.

I don't have an AutoProm.

dave w

[dave w]

I still think your wasting time though? Just tune it and do WOT from the gauge with PE AFR adjustments.

The vehicle has been to the dyno, the vehicle owner wants a second opinion. I was thinking, have the WBO2 data in a data log. Not sure I'll be comissioned to tune?

dave w

[EagleMark]

I don't have an AutoProm.

dave w

I set up the AutoProm Channel 1 volt and AFR to use O2 sensor voltage, in other words open loop and no narrow band simulation, plug the brown wire from LC1 to O2 wire and results will show in AutoProm Channel 1.

I see what your are trying to do, show data! Even if you had an AutoProm you could not get WB info in datalog... it shows in dashboard but not data. Mark Mansuar at TunerPro said that is impossible so I showed him a screen shot of voltages working while recording and the log... he said he would look into it but never heard back.

Now you can get data from AutoProm on 2 of 3 channels in 8162 Baud systems, but not channel 3... all still show in dashboard.

[dave w]

I set up the AutoProm Channel 1 volt and AFR to use O2 sensor voltage, in other words open loop and no narrow band simulation, plug the brown wire from LC1 to O2 wire and results will show in AutoProm Channel 1.

I see what your are trying to do, show data! Even if you had an AutoProm you could not get WB info in datalog... it shows in dashboard but not data. Mark Mansuar at TunerPro said that is impossible so I showed him a screen shot of voltages working while recording and the log... he said he would look into it but never heard back.

Now you can get data from AutoProm on 2 of 3 channels in 8162 Baud systems, but not channel 3... all still show in dashboard.

Mark, I now understand not being able to get the WBO2 info into the data stream. I've gotten very spoiled with the abilities of the '427 PCM! The MTX-L has a gauge, so show and tell WBO2 info is still an option. I'm going to look into the Innovate Logging Software, not the direction I wanted to go, but I should be able to capture enough information to be considered a competent 2nd opinion.

dave w