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Thread: How-to Tuning Collaboration

  1. #1
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    How-to Tuning Collaboration

    Hello everyone. I'm currently getting the gear needed to start tuning, both obd1 and 2. And I wold like to create a video for dummies (like me lol), on how to begin tuning older EFI cars using Tuner Cat and Jet. The only thing I'm missing is the obd1/2 aldl. For starters, should I get the obd1/2 lt1 tuner kit from tuner cat, or the tuner kit pro (both being Y kits)? I'm willing to give a new product a try, if any. I know there's a program that comes with the pro.But do I need it? I recall someone mentioning on making my own ALDL. Is it worth? Anyhow, I would like to collaborate with anyone, or even a group, to create a visual aid for beginners. Of course everyone who provides good guidance will be credited. I don't make a living on the videos. I simply do it to help others while learning something new (retirement sucks!!!) Today I get my jet, so I will dabble with that, until I can pull the trigger on the Tuner Cat Kit. Hopefully buy then, I'll feel a little bit more comfortable with the tuning software's. I've gone through some of the tutorials, and most of it reads like stereo instructions (jk).

    First thing I need is a starter list. So far I have the following:

    -Computer (XP or higher)
    -Flashhack
    -eehack
    -Tuner Pro RT
    -JetDST and/or TunerCat ALDL OBD1/2 Usb converter

    Am I missing anything?

    Second
    I know the very first thing to do, is to create a main back up of the cars program. Which brings me to a question. How do I take my current obd2 program and back it up with the ALDL obd1 using TPR? Basically to convert my obd2 tune to using an obd1 computer. As I continue down my path, I will follow up with questions and an open mind. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated

    Third
    What's needed to convert from obd2 to a 1. And from what I've gathered:

    -An ecm that controls that specific motor will be be ok. In this case I have a 16188051 for my obd1 conversion for an LT1 (Am I tracking?)
    -Obd1 knock sensor. Although I'm unclear on the conversion process, but I'll worry about it when I get to that bridge.

    If you're curious about my channel and the content I put out, feel free to pay it a visit: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfN...FFwN_k-WNX-0uA (Kodiak Outdoors). That's pretty much all I have at the moment. But I look forward to learning and working with everyone. Thank you

  2. #2
    LT1 specialist steveo's Avatar
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    first off you need to stop posting the same thing in two places - admins will get annoyed by that

    First thing I need is a starter list. So far I have the following:

    -Computer (XP or higher)
    -Flashhack
    -eehack
    -Tuner Pro RT
    -JetDST and/or TunerCat ALDL OBD1/2 Usb converter

    Am I missing anything?
    windows 7 or higher computer for eehack and flashhack. it doesn't run on XP

    What's needed to convert from obd2 to a 1. And from what I've gathered:

    I know the very first thing to do, is to create a main back up of the cars program. Which brings me to a question. How do I take my current obd2 program and back it up with the ALDL obd1 using TPR? Basically to convert my obd2 tune to using an obd1 computer. As I continue down my path, I will follow up with questions and an open mind. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated
    you have two approaches

    approach one, read the calibration with jet DST and manually copy the values over from your fuel and spark tables.

    the tables may be different sizes or configurations so you will need to interpolate the data either manually (which is what everyone else does) or with a 3d spline calculation or something. im actually working on a tool that'll have a 3d spline interpolator, but im really busy so it might be 100 years before it's done.

    approach two, assume your existing tune is garbage and start over, you don't know who made it, if it was done with a dyno or a wideband, for all you know it caused power loss over stock

    i recommend approach two because tuning an LT1 is really really easy with the tools i provide

    -An ecm that controls that specific motor will be be ok. In this case I have a 16188051 for my obd1 conversion for an LT1 (Am I tracking?)
    -Obd1 knock sensor. Although I'm unclear on the conversion process, but I'll worry about it when I get to that bridge.
    that's pretty much it as far as i remember

  3. #3
    LT1 specialist steveo's Avatar
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    oh, regarding the video, that would be awesome. another guy has done a few too. if you wanted to do it scripted, you could shoot me the script and i could tell you if there are any factual errors or whatever.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveo View Post
    first off you need to stop posting the same thing in two places - admins will get annoyed by that



    windows 7 or higher computer for eehack and flashhack. it doesn't run on XP

    What's needed to convert from obd2 to a 1. And from what I've gathered:



    you have two approaches

    approach one, read the calibration with jet DST and manually copy the values over from your fuel and spark tables.

    the tables may be different sizes or configurations so you will need to interpolate the data either manually (which is what everyone else does) or with a 3d spline calculation or something. im actually working on a tool that'll have a 3d spline interpolator, but im really busy so it might be 100 years before it's done.

    approach two, assume your existing tune is garbage and start over, you don't know who made it, if it was done with a dyno or a wideband, for all you know it caused power loss over stock

    i recommend approach two because tuning an LT1 is really really easy with the tools i provide



    that's pretty much it as far as i remember


    My fault. I'm sometimes not sure where to place my post. I'm sure you're right. In fact, I bet I'm over exaggerating the difficulty level of tuning an Lt1. Is "Wideband" calculated hp?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKodiak View Post
    My fault. I'm sometimes not sure where to place my post. I'm sure you're right.
    In fact, I bet I'm over exaggerating the difficulty level of tuning an LT1.
    Is "Wideband" calculated hp?
    Pareto-something ... the first 80% of tuning is easy enough. The last 20%, you'll be glad for $EEhack.

    'Wideband' is in contrast to 'narrowband', as in O2 sensors.
    Most OE O2 sensors are narrowband. They are most accurate between 0.35Volts (slightly lean) & 0.55Volts (slightly rich).
    Outside of that narrow window, OE O2 sensors are increasingly inaccurate / unreliable as compared to wideband O2 sensors, especially with changes in exhaust temperature.
    'Rich' is 'rich', and 'lean' is 'lean', but using narrowband O2 sensors to differentiate between 14.2 & 15.4, even if new, is simply not as accurate / reliable.

    Narrowband O2 sensors are 'good enough' for tuning low load, low RpM, 'driving Miss Daisy' stuff to near stoichiometric.

    On the other hand, wideband O2 sensors are much more accurate and reliable, pretty much regardless of exhaust temp fluctuations, regardless of the AFR.
    The further away from stoichiometric - Highway Mode / Lean Cruise, or Wide Open Throttle Power Enrichment - the more accurate the wideband O2 sensors are compared to narrowband, especially once upgrades like cam / heads / extra displacement come into play.

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    Last edited by LeMarky Dissod; 1 Week Ago at 04:25 PM.
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    With TunerCAT, will I have issues like the one on the photo below? It's from the DTS Tuner, and I get it on both WinXP, Win10, and Win11. I just wanted to read the data to have a base template to go by, before I make the obd1 conversion. I have a bin file now (Thanks Dissod!). Is that all I need for the Obd1 ecm swap? Thanks!

    error_cc0e7b145a1e2b0cc861f5a695bacf354c4c4692.jpg
    Last edited by TheKodiak; 1 Week Ago at 05:27 AM.

  7. #7
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    TunerCAT OBD1 will not be able to read or edit JET DST OBD2 files.
    JET DST OBD2 will not be able to read or edit TunerCAT OBD1 files.

    For an OBD1 LT1 swap you need:
    one 16188051 pcm
    *two 10456126 OBD1 knock sensors (ACDelco #213-96)*
    drain all the coolant out,
    then remove the old OBD2 knock sensors and find out how much more coolant was still left hiding in the block
    then install the 10456126 in place of the OBD2 knock sensors you just removed
    then top off the cooling system (don't forget to burp it!)

    To install the OBD1 .bin file into the OBD1 LT1 pcm (16188051) you will need an OBD1 LT1 cable, and FlashHack.
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  8. #8
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    Looks like all I need is the ALDL Cable and knock sensors. Are the base '95 values the same as a '96? Or is there even a need to back up my current tune for references?

  9. #9
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    If you mean, "back up my current OBD2 tune", keep the OBD2 pcm until you're sure you don't need it anymore.
    If you don't need it for an upcoming emissions test, then sell it.

    The OBD1 pcm will run your 'vette indistinguishably from the OBD2 pcm, once the correct .bin file is installed into the pcm, and the knock sensors are replaced.
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    After some research. I found a post where a gent had a obd2TunerCat, before it became JET. And learned his PCM was fried. He kept getting the exact same error window as me. Anyone heard of that? Otherwise, I'm sending the jet back and pulling the trigger one the obd1 conversion. And focusing on that only; although, I seem to be having issues finding things on TurnerRTPro. For Example: I have larger than stock wheels, and need to make an adjustment. Where do I go? Same goes with the EGR delete and the AIR Injection Delete I couldn't find anything. I'm using the bin and xdf from the TunerRT website too. Now the fun part...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKodiak View Post
    After some research. I found a post where a gent had a obd2TunerCat, before it became JET. And learned his PCM was fried.
    He kept getting the exact same error window as me. Anyone heard of that?
    Otherwise, I'm sending the jet back and pulling the trigger one the obd1 conversion.
    And focusing on that only; although, I seem to be having issues finding things on TurnerRTPro.
    For Example: I have larger than stock wheels, and need to make an adjustment. Where do I go?
    Same goes with the EGR delete and the AIR Injection Delete I couldn't find anything. I'm using the bin and xdf from the TunerRT website too.
    Now the fun part ...
    Believe it or not, TunerPro RT works better with steveo's $EEX definition.
    If you're having trouble finding parameters, use steveo's $EEx definition instead of whatever TunerPro provides for the LT1.

    pcm does not care what size wheel.
    pcm will never be able to tell the difference between 255/70R15, 255/65R16, 255/60R17, and 255/55R18 - they are all 29.04" tall.
    What is your actual tire size?
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    You are NOT Lying to Yourself.
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    I made the switch to Steveo's xdf. It still looks weird, and the text file you sent me is pretty straight forward. My actual wheel size measures 25.xx", but based on calculations for 295/35-18, 26.1". When I make the swap, will I still retain all dash/gauges and OE functions? Also, should I go with TunerCAT or Moates? Thanks



    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod View Post
    Believe it or not, TunerPro RT works better with steveo's $EEX definition.
    If you're having trouble finding parameters, use steveo's $EEx definition instead of whatever TunerPro provides for the LT1.

    pcm does not care what size wheel.
    pcm will never be able to tell the difference between 255/70R15, 255/65R16, 255/60R17, and 255/55R18 - they are all 29.04" tall.
    What is your actual tire size?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKodiak View Post
    I made the switch to Steveo's xdf. It still looks weird, and the text file you sent me is pretty straight forward.
    My actual TIRE size measures 25.xx", but based on calculations for 295/35-18, 26.1".
    When I make the swap, will I still retain all dash/gauges and OE functions? Also, should I go with TunerCAT or Moates? Thanks
    1. 'Weird'? How so?

    2. By swap, you mean using the OBD1 pcm instead of the OBD2 pcm?
    Once you install OBD1 knock sensors, you'll wonder why more people haven't done this - EVERYTHING works, no differences. That's why it's so popular.

    3. Between TunerCAT & Moates, TunerCAT, handsdown.
    (Moates has been advertising TunerCAT OBD2 as available when you include a RoadRunner kit, but they will not sell it anymore, which makes OBD1 conversion even more popular.)
    Steveo's $EEx, FlashHack, and $EEhack not only outperform TunerCAT & DataCAT (once you get the hang of them), TunerCAT and DataCAT are not free.
    I'd still order TunerCAT's OBD1LT1 cable though.

    295/35R18 = 26.12"
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  14. #14
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    Never mind. Once I printed it out it made more sense. But when I view it on the screen, it looks way different, not to mention confusing. Like lint, I'm sure I'll pick it up. Yes, that's exactly what I mean when I use the word swap.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod View Post
    1. 'Weird'? How so?

    2. By swap, you mean using the OBD1 pcm instead of the OBD2 pcm?
    Once you install OBD1 knock sensors, you'll wonder why more people haven't done this - EVERYTHING works, no differences. That's why it's so popular.

    3. Between TunerCAT & Moates, TunerCAT, handsdown.
    (Moates has been advertising TunerCAT OBD2 as available when you include a RoadRunner kit, but they will not sell it anymore, which makes OBD1 conversion even more popular.)
    Steveo's $EEx, FlashHack, and $EEhack not only outperform TunerCAT & DataCAT (once you get the hang of them), TunerCAT and DataCAT are not free.
    I'd still order TunerCAT's OBD1LT1 cable though.

    295/35R18 = 26.12"

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    If we're talking about TunerPro RT, 'Parameter Category' works best, and don't forget to turn the comments ON.
    THEY are NOT Lying to You.
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