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Thread: Dynamic EFI, EBL Flash II, TBI, tuning

  1. #1
    Electronic Ignition!
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    Dynamic EFI, EBL Flash II, TBI, tuning

    Good morning,

    New guy here and new to forums. I apologize if this post is in the wrong place.

    I am new to tuning and have been playing around with my Dynamic EFI system and reading lots of information and forums.

    I have been messing with it for a little over six months and 1500 miles. It runs pretty good but i was hoping for better fuel mileage. Im sure it is something that i havent set right or dont know about yet.

    Is there anyone that has experience with the Dynamic EFI EBL Flash II system and Tuner Pro RT, that would be willing to read over my settings while doing VE learns and etc.

    If it helps, I could also list my build to give a better idea on what I am working with.

    Mike

  2. #2
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I developed an Excel Spreadsheet for Dynamic EFI, see screen shots below. The spreadsheet is helpful for tuning Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) and Spark Advance (SA) averages.

    Are you doing VE Learns using AFR?

    dave w

    Log 4 _ Lower AFR.jpg

    Log 4 _ Upper AFR.jpg

    Log 4 _ Lower Spark Advance.jpg

    Log 4 _ Upper Spark Advance.jpg

  3. #3
    Electronic Ignition!
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    Thanks for the reply Dave

    I am tuning by using AFR. I have the capability of using a NBO2 or a WBO2 sensors.

    In all reality, the EBL Whats up Display is doing the learning through its VE learn feature. Im just looking over the changes to see if they arent too far out of range to try. So far, I have used the VE learn and added some SA to the BIN supplied with the Dynamic EFI system.

    Do I need to compare the tables in the BIN file to your spreadsheets to see if they are close?

    Mike

  4. #4
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    The spreadsheet is another way of looking at the AFR's and SA. Usually the VE learns have smooth transitions from cell to cell, but not always. The spreadsheet is helpful for seeing if the VE Table needs or doesn't need smoothing. An engine will need more fuel at higher RPM's. An engine will need more fuel under heavy load. Accelerating from 0 mph to 70 mph will require more fuel than cruising at 70 mph.

  5. #5
    Electronic Ignition!
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    I have been doing VE learns and smoothing the fuel tables for the last few weeks. I seem to hover at the 14mpg mark.

    While doing more VE learns with my WBO2 this morning, I noticed something. On the Whats up display, my INT and BLM values were locked at 128. It is my understanding that represents stoich in the fuel map. Although, the commanded AFR pretty much stayed at 13.8 to 14.0.

    Is it trying to VE learns to 13.8? If so, do I have a setting wrong that is making my base map run rich?

    Im just curious if this could be the reason for the low fuel economy.

  6. #6
    Fuel Injected!
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    are you in closed loop? SBC will have better idle quality with the mixtures you listed. stoich is to keep cat converter from overheating. if you don't have one I wouldn't worry about it. you will see nore milage gains from timing map and lean burn (hiway mode) IMO.

    EDIT: you have not told us vehicle, engine type/size, transmission, rear gear ratio, tire size. 14mpg is pretty meaningless to anyone reading...
    Last edited by tayto; 07-11-2022 at 07:13 AM.

  7. #7
    Electronic Ignition!
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    Thank you for the reply, tayto.

    During the VE learn process with the Dynamic EFI EBL Flash II system, It is not in closed loop while learning with the WBO2 sensor. I am assuming the BLM and INT are locked at 128 so the wide band can bring the base map closer to 14.7:1 AFR without the narrow band, acceleration enrichment and etc.

    The vehicle is a 1967 Chevy K10 SWB on a K5 Blazer chassis.
    SM465 manual transmission with 1:1 output
    Axles have 3.08 gears
    32" tires 6" wide

    Engine specs

    350 bored to 4.030"
    Flat top pistons
    Comp Cams computer safe roller cam. Idle to 5000 rpm. I can give specs if needed
    GM TBI with 61lb/hr injectors and 15 psi of fuel pressure
    Edelbrock TBI intake
    World Products non swirl port heads. 65cc chamber
    9.5:1 CR

  8. #8
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Possibly the timing table requires optimizing?

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    Electronic Ignition!
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    Thank you for the reply, Dave

    I can adjust my spark advance map. In fact, I had to use a timing table from a different vehicle that used open chamber heads instead of the TBI swirl port heads. (mine were cracked and not rebuildable)

    Is it possible to find the knock threshold of my engine safely, without putting it on a dyno?

    Ido have a table that will record spark knock on my EBL Flash II system. Its called the What's Up Display.

  10. #10
    Fuel Injected! PlayingWithTBI's Avatar
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    Check out the Excel Spreadsheet, at the end of post 3, @84Elky developed on this link. The table is a perfect cut and paste to your EBL .bin. IIRC he also posted it here somewhere.
    https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ml#post6301288

    If your Knock Sensor works, just data log with your WUD and look at Knock counts, pull some timing or, possibly add some fuel until you get it reduced.

    Note: I was getting KCs at lower RPMs with higher MAPs until I realized the "SA Launch Mode" was adding too much timing. Once I cut that in half, they looked a lot better.

  11. #11
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    Thank you, Playing With TBI.

    I will give that a try. I see he has 8 degrees more timing in the areas that I cruise in.

    After changing the tables and doing a few VE learns, I will see if I get any Knock counts anywhere.

    Do you guys pull timing just until there are no Knock counts recorded or pull a little more timing out on top that?

    One other thing that just hit me, I believe HiWy mode or lean cruise adds timing also. That is in addition to the Spark advance table, right?
    Last edited by 1967Chevy; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:32 PM.

  12. #12
    Fuel Injected! PlayingWithTBI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1967Chevy View Post
    Thank you, Playing With TBI.

    I will give that a try. I see he has 8 degrees more timing in the areas that I cruise in.

    After changing the tables and doing a few VE learns, I will see if I get any Knock counts anywhere.

    Do you guys pull timing just until there are no Knock counts recorded or pull a little more timing out on top that?

    One other thing that just hit me, I believe HiWy mode or lean cruise adds timing also. That is in addition to the Spark advance table, right?
    Everyone has their own method for timing/KCs, some research needs to be done to ensure you are actually getting knocks/pre-ignition like, looking at the spark plugs for "peppering". Personally, a few KCs are acceptable. You can pull timing until you don't see any if you don't mind losing some performance. I find, without an IAT sensor, I'll get more in the summer than in the other months. Someday I'll get an IAT and hook it up since the EBL is capable of pulling timing with higher temps (SA_IAT/CTS Compensation). Note: I have never heard it knocking but I do get a few KCs and my plugs have some light "peppering". You can go on DynamicEFI's website and look at examples of spark plugs with this "peppering".

    Yes, HiWay Lean Cruise adds timing to your SA table, and leans out your AFR. When properly adjusted you shouldn't see any KCs since you'll be reducing timing and AFR at higher MAP cells. IIRC I'm running ~42 and 16.7 @50 MAP with my WBO2 and could probably go more without any KCs. YMMV

  13. #13
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    Thank you for the reply, PlayingWithTBI,

    I will give it a shot with more timing and see what happens. I tried to copy and paste the tables that DaveW graciously provided but the RPM and MAP rows and columns didnt match with my table. Instead, I zeroed out one of my tables and filled in what his tune provided the filled in the gaps where mine were still zero. It is drastically different than what I am using now.

    Im not sure that I am brave enough to use the whole table out of the gate but I might see how it responds in the cruise area first. Id hate to cause any inadvertent engine damage.

    Hopefully, I get a chance to throw a set of new plugs in it this weekend and give it a try.

    Ive also thought about adding an IAT sensor to the mix. I think it would give much better control over the system. Although, I will hold off until I get a much better understanding of what Im doing and how to get there. LOL

    Thank you so much for all of the suggestions and advice! It is greatly appreciated.

  14. #14
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    Sorry it has taken so long for an update. I have had a lot going on this summer. Some planned some not so much.

    I did increase the timing and ended up with spark knock in some areas. I have adjusted the timing to reduce spark knock in some areas. Still no change in fuel mileage.

    Im in the process of building a fresh air intake and changing to a colder set of spark plugs. Just to see if that will allow me to increase timing without getting knock.

  15. #15
    Fuel Injected! PlayingWithTBI's Avatar
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    Have you played with HLC yet?

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