TBI install on AMC 360

[geewhiz]

This site is an amazing resource! Thank you to all who post information for me to sift through!

Background...

TBI install on a ’78 CJ5 with AMC 360, .030 over, with Edelbrock Performer cam intake and valve springs, stock exhaust manifolds.
I have two complete TBI systems, One from a 1987 7.4L C20, w/auto. And another from a 1987 7.4L K30, w/auto. I think I saved everything I need except the fuel pumps, which I have replaced with an external pump. I also have a 16196395 ecm on the shelf that I may repin for some day but at this point its all I can do to install the 1227747 and the matching harness.
I do not have a large budget, everything I do is on the cheap. I enjoy welding and cobbling things together.

So far the mods to the Jeep are going slow. I've installed a single wire O2 sensor in both sides just after the exhaust manifolds. The plan is to maybe have a spot to install a wide band O2 for tuning. I have an old AMC distributor that I refazed and welded mechanical advance on, and removed VAC advance.
I'm looking for a single plane AMC V8 intake manifold, but having trouble finding a used one. So, I put a spread bore to square bore adaptor on the manifold, and have machined an adapter plate to bolt the TBI to the manifold.

I have installed the 28 pin ZIF into one of my 1227747s. I am using Tunerpro RT, $42-1227747-V5.9.3.XDF
and have modified this bbc bin, AZFW, a little bit to get it started running. Base pulse width is set at 107. I turned off the EGR (EGR patch, and turned off code 32). Turned off AIR. I put in the timing table for the AMC 360 I got from binder planet.
I have not turned the key yet, I'm still working out my power wires but I'm close to having the install complete.

My question at this point...


I have soldered new wires onto my pickup coil to reach the gm IGN model mounted on the firewall, but the pick-up coil wires are very small and I'm not sure if I have a good connection. Is there a different pick up coil I could use, or a better method for doing this, I have also twisted the wires.

Edit: I don't think I mentioned, I have 80# injectors.

Thanks
John

[kilohertz]

Hi John,

It sounds like you are well on your way, good job. Sounds like you are handy in machining, is there any way you could modify or graft a GM TBI distributor onto your AMC bottom half? It's been done, I think maybe someone on this site, for sure on the AMC-Jeep site that Bill-USN runs. It would allow full control of the engine by the ECM and I think would be a lot easier tuning. Just my opinion.

Cheers

[geewhiz]

Yeah, I saw the write up about grafting the 2 distributors together on Binderplanet. With all the talk on the internet about the distributor gear chewing up the cam, I thought I already have one that works, I don't want to take a chance of misaligning it. Maybe someday, I think that would be cool. I do have the 8 pin GM module mounted to the firewall, so I do have computer controlled Ignition. The connector on my Jeep/Duraspark pickup coil was corroded and bad, so I cut it off and soldered the new wires on to go to the module. I'm wondering if a replacement pick up coil would have more substantial wires, for me to connect to, or just plug into the new connector with some spade terminals.
My progress on this thing could be measured in years. One of these days...

[kilohertz]

I had a look at the coils available from my local supplier, the BWD is (CDN) $47, AC Delco is $62. As this is a critical component, if it were me, I would buy a new pickup coil to eliminate the possibility of issues down the road, unless you can be positive the corrosion hasn't wicked further into the wires.

Good luck!

Cheers

[geewhiz]

I agree, thank you for your input. This critical Ignition component should be replaced.

I'll add it to the list ;)

[geewhiz]

Could someone please take a look the above bin I have uploaded, with all my information, and see if that seems like a good bin to start with. I have not turned the key yet, but getting close. I think I need to add VE table 2 to VE table 1, and zero 0- 3200 rpm in table 2.

[geewhiz]

It runs!!

Im looking for the illusive ostrich2 instructions, searching different forums and sites, not finding what I need. I would like to data log and do real time changes. I had it working by blundering through the com port connections, but have not been successful in geting it to all work together a second time. I don't want to damage things, connecting and unplugging things at the wrong time/sequence. I've also been using a power inverter to run my computer, because the battery is junk, I've recently read this is a no-no. Any thoughts? Im looking into a new computer or a new battery.

Also I think I'm its running lean, I'm tring to get the fuel pressure adjusted to where I want it. I've only been doing idle and low RPM testing at this point. Here is my bin and a short log. I'm very new to tuning, any thing I am over looking in my bin?

Thanks for looking.

John

[geewhiz]

Edit. Thinking of a different log

[stew86MCSS396]

I took a quick gander.

Initial thoughts is but be advised I don't own an Ostrich. Do you need this... https://www.moates.net/socket-booster-10-p-171.html

To emulate with Ostrich/APU1, you need to disable the checksum by changing the mask ID to AA (read the notes in the xdf select item+F2). You should still be able to get it emulate without disabling the checksum but once you flash your first change, it's going to fail and go into limp home at least that's what I've observed in the past.

Not sure what the consensus would be, BPW 5.9L and 74pph injectors I would set to 115 but I understand you're trying to crutch an over rich condition. Start taking some fuel out of the VE tables based on your BLMs.

Watching your datalog, I'm not sure why your spark advance starts out at 0 and keeps climbing until it hangs at 45 degrees. Then it seems to reset itself to 0 and repeats this climb to 45 degrees. I think something is amiss and that isn't the actual spark timing being reported. Is your ASDU spark timing unaltered? I'm thinking you need a spark map tailored to your AMC 360.

[geewhiz]

Looks like I posted the wrong log, that was before I applied the spark hack.

My injectors are 80PPH, with the BPW formula I came up with 107. Gas was running out the tailpipes, and I needed to move it so I could work on another vehicle. So I changed it to 95 before I drove it out of there. I believe now it's set at 100.

I will have to look into the socket booster and check sum mask ID. The timing map is from binder planet, it seems to match what I found for mechanical and vacuum advance on my vehicle before I switched over to efi.

Thank you for responding.

[geewhiz]

I've been taking advantage of Bill's vast amount of knowledge over on binderplanet. But he appears to be on vacation or busy the last few days. Here are my questions from that site.

Here are my latest bin and log files.
I have been fine tuning the VE table. Tuner pro works the same for changing the values. Plus and minus on the number keypad changes the entry by 0.4.
By adjusting it this way can/should I subtract VE2 back out of VE1?
I think I have succeeded in proving to myself that my set up works. SO, any tips, suggestions, or ideas, because I think it's time to switch over to the 16196395 or 16197427. I'll try to adapt my fuel tables, then start trying to live tune my spark. I'm researching electronic det cans. I have not found much on spark tuning with out knock sensors. I think I'll have someone drive steady, and I will listen and increase spark till I hear something, then back it off. I've been working on a spark table made from readings I took on my engine before the swap but not going to well, my mechanical advance needs the initial timing subtracted, and my VAC advance needs to be converted to KPa, and then figure out how to fill in the rest of the table, but I'm getting there!!!

Thanks for the help! It's running better than the carb ever did!

I found Bill's excel sheet to make a spark table from service manual charts, I'll have to look into that.

I'm hoping to be able to use my ostrich 2.0 after a repining party under my dash!

Not sure what to do with the Static Timing tab. There is no formula in cell C3, for me to change from 9 to my distributor setting+1. Also, is my distributor setting, my old pre EFI setting of 7.5*, or what the core support says, 5*, or 0* like it is set at right now? Made from Jeep advance,png chart.

[dave w]

I posted this thread several years ago, http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...E2-Fuel-Tables

Gearhead-efi link for the 1227747 ECM, http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-42 Post #7 has a Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet for 1227747 VE Tuning.

If / When you update to the 16197427, this post about tuning with Air Fuel Ratio's (AFR's) can be helpful, http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ng-Spreadsheet

R.I.P. EagleMark

dave w

[geewhiz]

Tuning is going well, still using the 1227747. Fuel tables are close. Starting to think about timing tables. With my big bolck system I have no knock sensor.

Bill over at binderplanet says "With a custom tune, no knock sensor is needed or desired."

Can any one point me to info on tuning spark with out knock sensor?

Thanks
John

[ralmo94]

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ml#post6301288

Here is a link to a thread with a spreadsheet for assisting in creating a starter spark table.

[geewhiz]

Alright! Winter is over! Time to go Jeepin' again!
I'm using Bill from Binder Planet's timing table from the FAQ. It seems to work well, I don't hear any knock, but I think further tuning of the spark would be just listening for knock, and noting rpm and MAP.
Can I put a esc module on my system? It's off of an 87 bbc, which did not have one.