total newbie- fiero 3800 series II sc

[NCBearhawk]

BNUW are the last digits on the cumputer and the outside of the memcals if that helps....

[EagleMark]

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/BCCFind/...shtml?BCC=BNUW

[RobertISaar]

Mark,
I'll check the ecm when I get home (late) tonight from work, but I will say I was going to ignore that almost entirely. The series II engines as far as I can tell were never run by an obd1 computer. The fiero swap fix was always to use a computer for a series I engine, swap appropriate sensors and reprogram. I'm starting to wonder if I don't need to go ahead and pay for the programming. I think Ryan at gmtuners will send me the files for 60 bucks ( I'm afraid to use dollar signs here...you guys might read something other than my intentions :) ). I'm pretty well stuck with using the computer I have in there now...it was a real bear to marry the two disparate harnesses. I've absolutely no interest in doing that again. I'm still waiting on the ostrich2.0, but even with that I'm thinking I can't read the existing chip as I have to take it out to put the g4 adapter in...retaining just the knock sensor functions of the memcal....but I could be wrong about that.
Keep the comments coming gentleman...they are greatly appreciated...I'ts nice to visit a forum and feel welcome!
Paris

there were some 1995 series II(N/A) cars, used the OBD1 ECM as well. i don't have any cals of them though.

also: there is no such thing as "5B7" as listed by tunercat... i have BINs for what is claimed to be 5B7, has the exact same algorithm portion as "5B".

[NCBearhawk]

So is there a better bin to work with? I see that there are multiple variations of $5b. Do I need to just load them up side by side and compare the bin files? Thanks again for all the input ( pun intended) ! This portion of this build is my least favorite part of building a car, but this forum is doing wonders for changing my attitude!
Paris

[EagleMark]

I'd have to say yes! Since that one is not even from a SuperCharged engine...(and also superceeded to another bin) the bin says RPO l36, well the only thing I can find for supercharged engine of that year and ECM is RPO L67 which also has a man trans bin BLAA which I can't find but there are 2 others on this page. BBTD which is L67 and manual in CalData but transmission RPO says Auto and so does BCC Find
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/BCCFind/...shtml?BCC=BBTD
Not sure what 38SCSTK.BIN is? And BMYU is L27 auto... so best available starting point would be the BBTD or check the unknown...

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/bin/16183247/

With that it looks like $5B is correct.

EDIT: BLAA is also listed as manual trans but RPO for engine says Auto?

DOUBLE EDIT: I looked at both of them with available, 38SCSTK.BIN and BBTD in $5B mask and they both appear to be Auto Trans. There is only 3 bytes difference of undefined hex address...

[RobertISaar]

there were no OBD1 manual transmission L36 or L67s....... well, at least, not in america, autrailia might have gotten some though.\

what i would do..... is not use the engine because i hate 3800s(long story), but the more helpful response would be to start with a 94-95 series 1 supercharged BIN and copy in as many of the n/a series 2 tables as possible where appropriate, and should you have an OBD2 tuning program, grab some appropriate stuff from there from a series 2 supercharged BIN and throw those into the modified series 1 supercharged BIN.



it's going to be a long, boring process, one that i've done about 30 times now, good luck. also, is that the corrected 5B XDF you're using? i found errors in the one that was available online(mostly MAF related stuff) and fixed them for at least my version.

[EagleMark]

also, is that the corrected 5B XDF you're using? i found errors in the one that was available online(mostly MAF related stuff) and fixed them for at least my version.

Me?I have no idea, just one I have here, I've never worked with it so don't know of any errors... there is also a lot of unknowns and with out a dissesembly I wouldn't know how to fix them?

Other then a cool engine, I'm not liking the availble XDF and not even sure what the PCM is? Memcal? Or flash? The ADX looks good...

[RobertISaar]

it's a P6 unit, 64KB BINs and uses an oddly shaped MEMCAL(G4 adapter from moates is needed, IIRC).

[NCBearhawk]

It is the memcal type you described. I've been in touch with Ryan at gmtuners and my bin file should be on the way soon. He described it as obd 1.5 . I wonder if that might be why there's not much other attention paid to it outside of the fiero or other engine swap set. Normally the 3800 series II would only have been in obdII cars. We'll see...tho firing up the car has been delayed. I pulled the fuel tank to upgrade the fuel pump for the swap and decided to wire brush it clean and treat it to a coat of P.O.R. while I had it out....unfortunately a few of the little rust dots on it left little holes behind. It's off to a local shop on friday to get cleaned up, patched and coated inside and out. Think I'm going to take them the radiator too so I can avoid the next delaying suprise... :) Aren't these go fast cheap projects so much fun!

[RobertISaar]

he may refer to it as "1.5" as do a lot of other people, but there is nothing OBD2 about it. OBD1 comms protocalls, OBD1 PCM.... it MIGHT have a rear O2 sensor and use OBD2 styled Pxxx codes, but i think that's about it.

[EagleMark]

Seems like a low production PCM, so low intrest and support...

The 95 LT1 uses the Pxxx OBDII codes, but it is OBDI. I'm with Robert, I don't think OBDI.5 exisists, it's just a referal to the odd change over years, there was also some issues with 96 - 97 PCMs and flashing which has now been corrected so I guess there all the Odd years during a time when goverment mandated once again technoigy that was not ready for prime time.

Was there ever an OBDI with front and rear O2 sensors? 94 -95 LT1 was 1 for OBDI and 2 for OBDII 96 -97.

[phonedawgz]

I thought OBD 1.5 generally referred to the flash ECMs from '94 & '95

[EagleMark]

It was, I thought, but now Ryan at gmtuners is calling a Memcal PCM OBDI.5 I still think it's a mythalogical creature produced by the Internet... GM never called it that? Have you ever seen a OBDI.5 scantool?

But if we are stuck with it, then it should be a OBDI system that started to implement OBDII codes. Then I was looking for real information which must be true cause it was on the Internet and.... well it's to late because some OBDII systems are being called OBDI.5 Why if 1996 and newer had to be and were OBDII?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


OBD 1.5 refers to a partial implementation of OBD-II which General Motors used on some vehicles in 1994, 1995, & 1996. (GM did not use the term OBD 1.5 in the documentation for these vehicles - they simply have an OBD and an OBD-II section in the service manual.)
For example, the 94-95 Corvettes have one post-catalyst oxygen sensor (although they have two catalytic converters), and have a subset of the OBD-II codes implemented. For a 1994 Corvette the implemented OBD-II codes are P0116-P0118, P0131-P0135, P0151-P0155, P0158, P0160-P0161, P0171-P0175, P0420, P1114-P1115, P1133, P1153 and P1158.^[5]
This hybrid system was present on the GM H-body cars in 94-95, W-body cars (Buick Regal, Chevrolet Lumina ('95 only), Chevrolet Monte Carlo ('95 only), Pontiac Grand Prix, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme) in 94-95, L-body (Chevrolet Beretta/Corsica) in 94-95, Y-body (Chevrolet Corvette) in 94-95, on the F-body (Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird) in 95 and on the J-Body (Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire) and N-Body (Buick Skylark, Oldsmobile Achieva, Pontiac Grand Am) in 95 and 96 and also on '94-'95 Saab vehicles with the normally aspirated 2.3.
The pinout for the ALDL connection on these cars is as follows:

Female OBD connector pinout - front view

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16

For ALDL connections, pin 9 is the data stream, pins 4 and 5 are ground, and pin 16 is battery voltage.
An OBD 1.5 compatible scan tool is required to read codes generated by OBD 1.5.
Additional vehicle-specific diagnostic and control circuits are also available on this connector. For instance, on the Corvette there are interfaces for the Class 2 serial data stream from the PCM, the CCM diagnostic terminal, the radio data stream, the airbag system, the selective ride control system, the low tire pressure warning system, and the passive keyless entry system.^[6]
An OBD1.5 has also been used on Mitsubishi cars of '95 '97 vintage,^{[citation needed]} some^[which?] 1995 Volkswagen VR6's^{[citation needed]} and in the Ford Scorpio since 95.^[7]

[phonedawgz]

I agree - OBD1 is also a retroactive invention. Just like WW1 or BC.

[RobertISaar]

wikipedia..... i may have to go edit the crap out of that page.

there ARE a few OBD1.5 PCMs out there..... the "blockbox" S10s from 94-95, and the 95 3800 F-body are the only ones i can think of off-hand.... those comunicate using an OBD2 protocall(not just styled codes), have the post-cat sensors and IIRC, on the underhood labels, some actually state metting OBDII specifications, even though they are 1995 models.