127730 with DIS

Hello

Since I build in a 3.4 V6 in my 1990 Firebird, I'm thinking for using the DIS that came with that engine.
The engine runs great now, but has not enough power in the high Revs.
Found some wiring diagram to connect the dis to the wiring of the firebird, but still have some questions....
Hope someone here can answer them..

- Do I need another Bin file?
- Are there changes to made on the bin file I have?
- Or does it works like that without changes...

configuration at the moment:
3.4 V6
TH700r4
1227730
Bin with $88 mask


grtz, D

Yes, there are changes needed, to offset the trigger/EST by 60* (relative to crank).

There are a couple threads on here that explain the different ways to go about doing this.

Alternatively you could start with a bin that was used with DIS originally, such as the ones from the 1987 to 1994 Cavalier, though early bins could also have MAF enabled. Typically people use $A1 for this because it seems to be a little more refined than $88 and was the last mask that GM used for this application IIRC.

Thanks..

Will the A1 work with the 700R4 transmission?

and maybe a stupid question, but offset 60°.... will that mean that if I switch the spark plug wires, i don't need to change a thing?

grtz, D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by D Max

Thanks..

Will the A1 work with the 700R4 transmission?

and maybe a stupid question, but offset 60°.... will that mean that if I switch the spark plug wires, i don't need to change a thing?

grtz, D

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Yes, both the 700R4 and the TH125C have TCC control from the ECM and nothing else. So you will need to start with an automatic bin.

No, just changing the spark plug wire around won't work, because there is drastically different timing needs between starting and running when it comes to the DIS system. When the engine is starting base timing is used, but once above (usually) 400 RPM, timing control switches over to the ECM that will then change spark timing.

Also degrees between spark is 120*, not 60*, the offset is to do with the ESC signal that controls timing, and without that correct it just doesn't work right.

Today, I installed the DIS.
I used this wiring diagram:Attachment 12174

I used the pickup coil, original on the 3.4 engine.

I get no spark.

Someone that can give me a 'golden' tip?

grtz, D

EDIT: Guess I was a little bit too fast here.....
I have a 24x crank sensor on the engine....
Any Idea how to connect this one?

grtz, D

I thought this was a RWD 3.4? Those only ever had a 7x sensor.

You can literally just connect power, ground and the CPS to teh ICM and get spark. The other 4 connections to the ECM are yto send RPM reference and timing control signals between the ICM and the ECM.

So if you have no spark, make sure that your ignition power, ground and CPS connections are good, both when the key is just on and while cranking.

I guess it will come down to the cps connections then....

It could be 7x, i did not take off the harmonic balancer to count it.

The connector of the CPS has 3 wires.
As I found on the internet, A should be 12v, B is signal and C would be ground.
The connector on the ICM has also 3 connections, but only 2 are used.
In the WD I posted, it says 2 for the signal, the third would be the shield....

grtz, D

Wait... are you trying to use the 24x crank sensor behind the harmonic balancer? If you are that's the wrong crank sensor. That's part of the "quick fire system" and RPM reference for the ECM, but won't work with the DIS system. (I kinda forgot about this one lol)

You want the CPS that's installed in the block about mid way on the passenger side.

I looked at the engine block, and the bunch of wires that came with the block, and indeed, it makes a lot more sense.....

This sensor has only 2 wires, and they have the same color....
Did not know there are 2 sensors.....

I will try tomorrow to connect it properly, and then try again...

Today, I got the ignition working.
The engine runs quite good, but the ECM throws the code 42...
I also have no tach.

I do have a tach signal in tunerpro....

Still work in progress..

grtz, D

Code 42 would mean that the tan/black wire is not connected, or not connected to the right circuit.

Did some troubleshooting today......

This is what i all did:

checked all the connections, and they are like they should be on the wiring diagram above...
Measured the bypass wire between the the DIS and the ECM => it is not interrupted
Checked the advance with the strobo => it is 4° at idle, and goes to 12° at about 3000rpm.
It does not make a change if the bypass wire is disconnected.
(that 4° is a indication, since there was no reference point on the 3.4, and I fabricated one myself)
Swapped a ICM with an ICM I have in stock => no difference
Swapped a ECM => no difference

So the problem still exist: No tach and throws code 42

for the moment, i came to the following conclusions:

the ECM gets a reference signal from the ICM (=> fuel injection works + tach signal in Tunerpro)
The 4 wires between the ICM and the ECM have a near zero resistance.
The ECM does not put 5v on the bypass, but sets code 42 instead.
Try to find an oscilloscope, to check the signal on the white wire (est)


someone with any ideas?

grtz, D

Faulty module or ecm, or wire for bypass may be in wrong spot at ecm connector?

bought myself a third ICM today.
Connected it => same problem
Seems not logic that 3 ICM's have the same problem, and nobody seems to have had the same issue.....

tested the tach with a pulse generator => it works

@ 1 project2many: nothing changed to the ECM, I guess I do not need to change wires to it when swapping to DIS? Or do I....

grtz, D

Now it is getting weird.....

today I put in the original AZTY bin that works with the distributor....

It runs (ok, it surges a lot...)
but no code 42, no SES light, nothing....

with a little bit throttle, it stalls, but stil no SES light....

WTH????

You may want to reivew this thread
http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/supe...d-t111745.html

I edited the 7730 v6 DIS bin for use with northstar V8 dis on an SBC. It's been running perfectly for a year

discovered today that the BFAU bin works also... at least I have a base to work with..
Advance works with this bin, and no SES light. Engine runs OK
Only the tach does not work at the moment, but on the other side, i didn't remove the filter also (can't find it)

@ icsamerica: seems like it's gonna be a long evening for reading it... seems interesting!
maybe it's nice to change it back to the normal v6 dis.
Are there a lot of options added, beside the change to the northstar V8?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by D Max

discovered today that the BFAU bin works also... at least I have a base to work with..
Advance works with this bin, and no SES light. Engine runs OK
Only the tach does not work at the moment, but on the other side, i didn't remove the filter also (can't find it)

@ icsamerica: seems like it's gonna be a long evening for reading it... seems interesting!
maybe it's nice to change it back to the normal v6 dis.
Are there a lot of options added, beside the change to the northstar V8?

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I did find it interesting too and I love the results. My engine never felt strong above 5000 until I switched to DIS.

Read POST 33 in this thread. I made the DIS tach adapter with about 2$ worth of components I bought on ebay. Been working perfectly.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...rong-your.html

I've never needed to build any circuits to have the DIS trigger the originally dizzy driven tachs. I've had to make a circuit, to shorten the pulses at higher RPM for my Nissan tach, but that's a different problem all together.