My $59 problems/tuning a turbo camaro

Ok there is alot of action on here so I wanted to see if anyone on here knows anything at all about the $59 mask im currently attempting to tune in my 1227730ecu with 3 bar map/and turbo 3.1L V6 Camaro

I like the starter bin ive been working on for part throttle tuning but it seems impossible for this car to idle smooth and not be stinking rich. If im lucky ill get 12.4 AFR at idle without the car wanting to "hunt" at idle. Black as can be..sparkplugs.

There are so many different values and such that Im chasing my tail trying to figure this out.

I know that its the code and not the car as i tried my modded $88 bin/with the 1 bar map and adjusted##'s and the idle ran smooth at 14.5-15 AFR and NO hunting.
Honestly this car has never idle like it does now.. ever! Anyone that remembers me tuning the $88 mask a few months ago knows ive never had a idle hunting issue.

Thanks for any insite as im running out of patients for this $59 mask!:mad1:

Just wanted to add though the car does pull nice at 3-5psi of boost. 11-12 AFR and the only reason (i think) that i had a little spark knock today was because of my plugs not being gapped tight enough if not then SA will be taken out.

You'll get it tuned, calm down. You did it before and proved it's not a mechaniccal issue so just need to learn more of Code $59 adjustments.

Or since you swapped one bar MAP for 3 bar MAP during test could the 3 bar MAP be faulty?

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

You'll get it tuned, calm down. You did it before and proved it's not a mechaniccal issue so just need to learn more of Code $59 adjustments.

Or since you swapped one bar MAP for 3 bar MAP during test could the 3 bar MAP be faulty?

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Its reading boost and idle KPA fine. I know I just need to relax a little. I went to make sure it wasnt a vac leak again, and its def not. But ive idled the car so much the plugs are fouling!:confused1: I just need to read read read. And hope to catch some pointers along the way.

I'll just restate some of the things I have in your other threads and PMs, to keep them all in one place.

Much of this will just be copied and pasted, so it may seem out of context for some people...

The F1 table is supposed to be spark in relation to crank, though because of some other settings and the advance curve built into some ignition modules it may not be exactly the same at the crank. There is no latency table for the spark curve to adjust for different modules, like some other codes have.


Idle uses the 400 RPM row, regardless of what the actual RPM is.


Make sure the base advance (KREFANGL) matches what your base timing is (EST unplugged). Grab a timing light and verify. It's also a good idea to very the spark advance once the EST is plugged in. In my case I had about a 2* discrepancy at almost every point, I adjusted a scaler to rectify that.


Just get the car to idle as lean as possible, even if it hunts a little. I'd rather have a little hunt, than constantly fouling plugs... I'm battling that right now with a guy I know, who runs his blown carbed BBC WAY too fat and constantly fouls plugs and doesn't understand why. :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by project89

six i dont understand the f28 table its set to 158 across the board and i see this is the closet thing to an injector constant he has 30# injectors what should this be set to ?

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Yes, when not using an EGR (which is usually recommended to get a base tune), the same value is used in all cells. The F28 table can add or remove fuel, as the EGR opens, which is why it is a "vs EGR" table. ;)


In at least one of my bins, (2.8L inline6 30# injectors, I have an F28 of 137, others I have around 144, depending on where the engine wanted to run, with some changes.


There is a calculation for this value, but whenever I have used it, I get these ridiculously small values that would max out the VE table in no time. IIRC for my engine, the calculation said somewhere around 72, the engine wouldn't even start with this value, unless my VE table was raised to almost max. The general consensus seems to be start with a starter bin, or a $59 bin that is close to the same combination, and adjust the F28 table until the engine idles at or near stoich, then tune the VE table from there.


The F28 table can also be used to fudge a little, when maxing out the VE table(s), the F28 number can be increased, which will reduce the number in the VE table for the same cell.

Make sure the VSS flag is set accordingly, checked for a magnetic VSS, unchecked for an optical VSS, which also uses two different inputs BTW.

Thank you Sixshooter!

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Originally Posted by fasteddi

Its reading boost and idle KPA fine. I know I just need to relax a little. I went to make sure it wasnt a vac leak again, and its def not. But ive idled the car so much the plugs are fouling! I just need to read read read. And hope to catch some pointers along the way.

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Looks like Six Shooter has the info you were looking for.

Now that you have fouled out plugs and probably a sooty O2 sensor don't expect instant or perfect results. Get them closer and take the car for a ride to clean things out.

Or did you change spark plugs yet? I forget if I read here with your thread or somewhere else the need for turbo type spark plugs that have much shorter extrusion and shorter tips to prevent glow and preignition under boost.

Also going to have to look at fuel, 87 octane is not going to help performance under boost and produce knock and retard your timing, killing your performance gains. So make sure your knock is working and taking out enough timing on your starter bin, since it's a starter bin I would hope these settings are on safe side.

There's an excellent article on GN Turbo site about fuel and additives that seems to have great results to this matter.
http://gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneexplained.html

When all is ready we need smoky burn out video hopefully with turbo whine! :innocent2:

I got colder plugs gapped to .025 and 93 in the tank.
Thank you for the thread i will check it out!!

I am SO HAPPY right now. Watch this video and you see that Im finally getting a little grasp on the idle and part throttle tune.

1st pull 62% throttle 4.48psi of boost
2nd pull 52% throttle 4.14psi of boost

Decent afrs' but id need just a little more fuel as id like 11.5:1-12:1 Afr's under boost

Idles ok...

FWIW, I'm not hearing what Dave is regarding the BOV, it sounds like it is opening to me. Ok, maybe a little in the last video. Sometimes cameras will pick up on sounds that are not heard in real life. :shrug:


I think you've missed some key points in tuning $59, I'll state them here to make sure they are stated again, and clarified on some points.


The 400 RPM row for idle only applies to the F1 table, the VE table uses actual RPM values for idle tuning. The thing to make sure of here is that you are using the correct table, for VE at idle. There are flag options to use or not use the F29c table, and whether to use or not use the F29x table. I would assume that the F29x table is checked and that the F29c table is not at this point.


There is also a flag to use or not use the F77x table as well. I will assume at this point that the use F77x table is checked, it is in all $59 bins I have looked at. One thing to remember here is that the lowest value (100 KPa in the F77 table, 84 KPa in the F77x table) will affect ALL MAP values at and below those values. I.E. the 84 KPa cell in the F77x table will affect all fueling at 84 KPa down to zero KPa. This is why I usually set this to zero, and adjust the F29x table for fueling.


You can, in order to keep from maxing out the VE table, bring the F28 table up some, and reduce the F29x table around the idle cells. It is this reason that I say, that the caluclation is that is supposed to be to calculate the base pulse width (BPC in the F28 table), is not accurate, since the VE table generally gets maxed out very quickly. It is a bit of a work back and forth deal until you get a good balance, this is why I've had values in the F28 table from 118 to 148 at various points in tuning and learning more about how the $59 code works.


As Dave said, the high AFR numbers when you let off the throttle is due to DFCO, there is no fuel being injected, so the AFR goes extremely lean while the engine RPM drops, until a certain RPM or MPH is met.


Do yourself a favor and buy an Ostrich 2.0, more than worth the money on it. No need to log and burn EEPROMs to turn around and test the change, though you are making good progress doing that, but with the emulator, you can make changes without turning the car off, to see the results immediately. :)

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Originally Posted by fasteddi

The map outlet is on the back on the manifold on the pas side of it.
Ill take it off and check it with the motor running and see if its easy to open. The vac line is about 5ft long.. Its long but is brand new, ill look for cracks and such in the line also.
I wish I had a vac. pump but i dont :mad:

That was like a 4psi shot on those runs. Fun man!! Its hard not to wana step on the gas more, but I dont have much confidence in those afr's yet....

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Is it actual vacuum line? If it's too soft it can collapse under vacuum and not provide a vacuum signal to the BOV.


I prefer to use as much hard line as possible, I tend to use brake line for as long of a run as I can, and then use rubber vacuum line only to make the connections to the end points.


I found years ago, that my BOV (A Mitsubishi BOV), would open quicker than when I used just soft line.

Thank you again sixshooter!!! I will get on those points and tune some more, also see if my soft vaccum line is colapsing.

But im glad I am getting a little grasp on the $59.

Does anyone know of a AFR correction program that works with a $59 bin?? Im lost at how to make up a formula for afr tuning. I was good at using the BLM's in Excel before for part throttle in the $88 mask. But I dont know what the easiest way to use my AFR readings to change my VE values is.... Thanks for any tips! Tommorow gonna be a nice day, and no work...so lots of tuning hopefully!

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Originally Posted by fasteddi

Does anyone know of a AFR correction program that works with a $59 bin?? Im lost at how to make up a formula for afr tuning. I was good at using the BLM's in Excel before for part throttle in the $88 mask. But I dont know what the easiest way to use my AFR readings to change my VE values is.... Thanks for any tips! Tommorow gonna be a nice day, and no work...so lots of tuning hopefully!

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You should be able to use Air Fuel Ratio 14.7 instead of BLM 128.
Here are some examples:
AFR = 15.7 So the correction will be 15.7/14.7 = 1.068 to make the VE Table Value Richer
AFR = 13.7 So the correction will be 13.7/14.7 = 0.932 to lean the VE Table Value

dave w

Ok thanks dave. I though it might be somthing like that. So if say i was tuning a certain boost level , and I wanted 11.7 AFR and i was getting 12.2 on the datalog then i would..... 12.2/11.7= .956 then use that as a multiplier for the VE cell to lean out the condition for that cell.

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Originally Posted by fasteddi

Ok thanks dave. I though it might be somthing like that. So if say i was tuning a certain boost level , and I wanted 11.7 AFR and i was getting 12.2 on the datalog then i would..... 12.2/11.7= .956 then use that as a multiplier for the VE cell to lean out the condition for that cell.

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Yes, that math will work.

Not to cause confusion, 12.2 is a leaner AFR than 11.7. The math above should be 12.2/11.7 = 1.043. So multiplying VE Cell times 1.043 will make the AFR Richer from 12.2 to 11.7.

dave w

Don't like the $59 autotune excel sheets?

I haven't used it, since I needed to add a plug in, way back when I tried it, then just got used to tuning manualy.

Get the Ostrich, it will make this tuning go a LOT quicker. ;)

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Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

Don't like the $59 autotune excel sheets?

I haven't used it, since I needed to add a plug in, way back when I tried it, then just got used to tuning manualy.

Get the Ostrich, it will make this tuning go a LOT quicker. ;)

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Yea ive burnt a good 15 chips so far today and am still not happy.. mabet 15 more and i will be..

I though the autotune was for TP V4??