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Looking to control 4L80 behind 396 BBC with no crank speed sensor. Anyone using HEI tach signal for RPM. Also like to hear if you are currently running or have setup this combo with 0411 or other OEM ECM. Lots of options to spend $$ on controllers, however many folks want 4L80 without the expense of aftermarket controller and still have an operating automatic trans with TCC lockup. TIA
There was a TCM only controller used in the early '90s in trucks equipped with a 6.5.
The crank sensor signal used with 0411 is a 0-5V square wave signal. The HEI module provides intermittent ground to the tachometer to signal an ignition event so additional electronics would be required. The HEI REF signal is a 0-5V square wave signal that might work to trigger the 0411. Is the engine EFI or carb equipped?
The 16197427 will need the following inputs to control a 4L80E, RPM. TPS, VSS, ISS, Ignition, Battery +, Battery -.
Maybe PCM 16197427 information in this gearhead-efi thread will be helpful: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...stions&p=84622
The engines will be non-EFI with no reluctor ring or ability to sense crank speed. MSD does make a sensor that can be installed on the damper but unsure if it has been used. Would be real simple if we could use the distributor. I’m interested in finding fol;ks that have done this with some level of sucess.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1project2many
Was hoping to use a 0411 PCM as they are plentiful. I have also sold the HGM Compushift which work well however at $1450 CAD my cost, it adds alot of $$ to a 4L80 upgrade. Just looking for options to get people up and running that are on a tight budget and do not have crank speed sensing.
Woops, new to GH EFI and somehow reposted vs reply. Pasted from post below:
* The engines will be non-EFI with no reluctor ring or ability to sense crank speed. MSD does make a sensor that can be installed on the damper but unsure if it has been used. Would be real simple if we could use the distributor. I’m interested in finding fol;ks that have done this with some level of sucess.*
GM 4 Pin Ignition Module for custom distributor with remote mounted module picture below.
Perhaps the 4 PIN Module HEI Large Cap Distributor TACH signal will provide a RPM Signal for a PCM like the 16197427?
dave w
Attachment 17968
Harmonic Balancer Mounted '0411 low resolution (4x) crank trigger. Uses factory '0411 CKP sensor.
Pro vs. Con 16197427 vs '0411 for stand alone 4L80E controller?
16197427 less expensive option?
'0411 more expensive option with very cool WOW factor?
dave w
Attachment 17969
I have used an 0411 for shifting on a carb engine a couple times but also used the ignition system. HVS on the L31 and CNP on the 6.0L. Would be easiest to use a Holley L31 timing cover and 4x reluctor with the vortec van distributor, ignition control module and coil. You get full control of your timing curve and can run a knock sensor.
Thanks, agree the Holley cover might be the best option. Was really hoping to convert/use the HEI tach signal as I only need trans control and no EFI/Ignition . Have a couple folks wanting to upgrade to 4L80 without the cost of engine mods or expensive controllers on Old School SBC/BBC engines, while keeping the auto trans operation vs manual. This project is also about learning and feeding the techie needs in me.
Thanks, looked at balancer options and may have to go this way. Keeping the stock old school V-Belt drive system so the reluctor would have to mount in front of the pulleys. Looking at all options, really hoping for someone that has successfully used HEI/Coil system so as not to require many mods.
Maybe the HEI Distributor Pickup Coil can supply two ignition modules, one output to the 4 pin ignition module in the HEI distributor and one output to an externally mounted 7 Pin EFI ignition module. Perhaps the 7 Pin EFI Ignition Module will provide a 0 volt ~ 5 volt square wave RPM output signal?
Attachment 17983
I have used the Howell EFI swap which uses a modified tach signal. The system seemed more reliable after being changed to use a proper square wave signal generated by a GM ignition module.Quote:
Thanks, agree the Holley cover might be the best option. Was really hoping to convert/use the HEI tach signal as I only need trans control and no EFI/Ignition
HEI distributors with 4 pin HEI module can be converted to 7 pin HEI module. 7 pin HEI module supplies a REFerence signal just like the one the 7427 is designed to work with.
http://www.useasydocs.com/details/GM_7pinHEI.htm
https://macswebs.com/qdtech/tech/hei.htm
https://www.binderplanet.com/forums/...ersion.128469/
Note that you do not need to secure the weights or vacuum advance because you are not using the computer to control timing.
The engine will be Carb onlyQuote:
Originally Posted by 1project2many
There are many ways to determine crank speed. Before GM used crankshaft mounted reluctor rings they used the distributor. Early CCC vehicles were carbureted with a computer. The distributor provided an RPM signal. Some 305 equipped trucks in the '80s were carbureted. They used a knock sensor and a very simple system to retard timing to prevent knock. The distributor provided an RPM signal. There was no efi and the timing was controlled by vacuum and mechanical advance.Quote:
The engines will be non-EFI with no reluctor ring or ability to sense crank speed.
When the distributor provides an RPM signal in these vehicles the ignition module creates a 0 - 5V square wave out of the A/C signal created by the pickup coil. The ecm measures the time between each pulse then uses a number that represents the amount of crankshaft revoluton between pulses to calculate crankshaft RPM.
If an HEI distributor installed in your engine is retrofitted to use a module from a computer controlled engine then a 0-5V square wave signal would be available to use as an RPM signal in an add-on computer.