Moates or ebl flash

I’ve been looking into tuning for several months and have seen several different types of tuning hardware. I’m trying to determine what the best (easiest) choice would be for my application. 95 K1500 with 4l60e automatic trans. My PCM is a7427. Later this year I will be swapping a mild 383 in place of the stock engine and keeping the TBI. I know that it will need a tune - but which one? I’ve been emailing Dynamic EFI about the ebl flash setup. Bob is quick to respond with much helpful info, but the ebl flash won’t run the trans (he has provided instructions for using stock PCM).

I know a lot of guys on this forum use ebl flash, but I also see some Moates Apu1 users. Has anyone used both or can someone provide pros/cons of using either one? I can’t have the truck down for a long time trying to make it run correctly and can’t afford to change directions in the middle. If nothing changes, I’m going to order the ebl flash and install it on my stock engine and try to get trans working with it before pulling engine.

thanks for any insights you have!

I had a similar choice, I purchased the Ostrich 2.0 Emulator. http://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-the...eed-p-169.html

The Ostrich 2.0 flashes like the EBL. The Ostrich 2.0 is Plug-n-Play with TunerPro RT! The Ostrich allows you to make changes to the tune, even with the engine running. The Ostrich 2.0 could double as a security device, unplug it from the '7427 PCM and nobody will be drive away with your ride.

I've posted information on using a Wide Band O2 sensor to "Tune" the 7427: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...g)-Spreadsheet

The EBL is good, the '7427 with an Ostrich is "On Par" with the EBL in many ways!

dave w

Thanks for the response Dave.
Will the ostrich 2 control the trans or will the old pcm need to be made standalone like the ebl flash requires? Do you know if the ostrich comes pre-programmed with popular tuning files? Dynamic EFI has told me the ebl flash comes with 30 tunes to choose from depending on the build. I’m looking for the easiest path to success. I like the ebl, but want to be sure there is not something easier.

Go Moates. Otherwise, you will need to get the hardware anyways when you decide you want to tune the stock PCM to modify how the transmission works. The stock PCM is easily capable of running that engine. A few adjustments should make it run well enough to drive then you fine tune it further as you go.

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Originally Posted by Ironpossum

Thanks for the response Dave.
Will the ostrich 2 control the trans or will the old pcm need to be made standalone like the ebl flash requires? Do you know if the ostrich comes pre-programmed with popular tuning files? Dynamic EFI has told me the ebl flash comes with 30 tunes to choose from depending on the build. I’m looking for the easiest path to success. I like the ebl, but want to be sure there is not something easier.

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Yes, the Ostrich 2.0 will control both the engine and transmission. The Ostrich 2.0 is what's known as an Emulator. The Emulator actually replaces the chip in the '7427 computer. The Ostrich 2.0 does everything the chip does in '7427 computer. Basically the EBL and the Ostrich 2.0 have similar electronics for prom chip emulation and "Flash" upload / download. The EBL electronics are hard wired inside the computer, and Ostrich 2.0 is connected the '7427 with a Ribbon Cable.

Using the Ostrich 2.0 is like having your cake and eating it to. The Ostrich 2.0 uses the same TunerPro RT software that EBL does. The Ostrich 2.0 is Flash just like the EBL. The Ostrich 2.0 will allow you "Flash" the '7427 with changes to "BOTH" engine and transmission at the same time if you want!

The Ostrich 2.0 can also be an anti-theft device, unplug the Ostrich 2.0 and NOBODY can drive away with your ride. Plug the Ostrich 2.0 back in, and you will be driving like normal.

dave w

Thanks guys! I’ve emailed. Moates. Their website directs you to the APU1 autoprom package for the 95 TBI trucks. Checking to see what their recommmendation is and what extra equipment is required to use Ostrich2. I do like the ability to tune trans as well as engine.

Anybody else notice that when you google TBI, it comes up “Traumatic Brain Injury”? That what it feels like every time I look into joining the tuning game.

Attached are pics of how to use the Ostrich 2.0 and Moates G1 adapter board with the '7427 PCM.

dave w

Moates replied that either that Atoprom or Ostrich 2 would work for my application. Just need a G1 chip adapter. They did recommend the Autoprom since it has datalogging and flash capabilities. They did not recommend leaving the Ostrich in longer than a year in case it’s battery failed and left you stranded.

I like that the Autoprom just piggybacks the existing PCM and doesn’t require a separate controller like the ebl flash. Does the Autoprom or Ostrich have the ability to auto tune or VE learn like the ebl flash? Does that option make much difference? The auto tune or VE learn sounds attractive for a first time user, but is it worth giving up trans control?

One last really dumb question- it looks like the tuners are there to adjust the air/fuel mix. What about timing? If the MAP sensor remains the primary input for spark advance, then what compensates the timing for changes to heads, cam,etc...? Told you it was a dumb question.

Thanks for all of the help. I’ve started ordering parts, headers should be in this week. Next is throttle body rebuild/porting.

I've owned an Ostrich 2.0 for over 6 years now, still has the same battery. Just used it last weekend to tune a TPI system. I don't own an AutoProm, likely never will.

The AutoProm and Ostrich 2.0 Do Not Auto Tune or VE Learn. I use my VE Fixer spreadsheets to "Crunch" the data logs to tune.

Timing is mostly trial and error. I usually start with a factory timing table, and add or subtract timing as required. I feel the camshaft profile is a big factor in timing. I like using factory camshafts, so I can use the factory timing table to start with. For example, if using Vortec roller camshaft in the TBI engine, I start with the Vortec camshaft timing table.

dave w

The '7427 can use a Wide Band O2 Sensor (WBO2) without an AutoProm. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...g)-Spreadsheet

dave w

The response from Moates recommends an APU1 with the Ostrich 2 in order to data log. Based on the cabling in your pics, I would think that the ostrich would feed info to TunerPro where it could be logged. So I guess the question is do you also need equipment to datalog with the Ostrich2 or does it allow that function?

Thanks for the info on the wideband O2 sensor. That’s the next question I’m trying to answer. It’s almost like you’ve answered these same questions a hundred times!

The Ostrich 2.0 is basically a "flash" chip, it actually replaces the original chip.

TunerPro RT is a MULTI-FUNCTION program. One of the functions of TunerPro RT is it can "Flash" the Ostrich 2.0, AutoProm or EBL. TunerPro RT is also an EDITOR, which allows you to edit the "flash" to correct transmission shifting and correct engine performance. TunerPro RT is also used to Data Log. TunerPro RT is an AWESOME MULTII-FUNCTION program!!!!

You will need an ALDL Cable to data log. The ALDL connects to the Laptop and OBD1 diagnostic port. I like using this ALDL cable: http://www.aldlcable.com/products/aldlobd1u.asp

The Ostrich 2.0 and ALDL cable are two separate and independent pieces of tuning hardware.

dave w

Thanks Dave- You’re the best! Guess I’m about ready to get started. Going with the Aldl cable, Ostrich 2, G1 adapter and a download of TunerPro Rt. I’ll give a go on my stock engine to get familiar with the software. Going to take a few weeks- about to start 36 night shifts with little time off. It will free up some truck funds, just no time to work on it. Hopefully next time I post, I’ll be up and close to tuned!

Thanks for all the help. There’s so much out there to read it gets pretty confusing!