$DA3 93 LT1 - need help with integrator delay table and prop gain tables (headers)

Hey all,

Anyone know how I can change the integrator delay and also the proportional gain tables for a 93 LT1? Did some reading and heard that wild swings on the O2 sensor when using headers and sensors that are much further from the engine than stock that changing those two tables could really help. I know it's available in the 94-96 EE, but for the 93 $DA3, how do I go about changing these values? I am grateful to the folks on here that have posted their adx and xdf files that I have been using, but I haven't been forced to figure out how to do any of that, so kinda feeling stuck on this.

I'm assuming that if I knew the correct address etc., that it could be added to the mask I currently have? Maybe use the ECM disassembly to try to figure it out? I would think this has already been done somewhere but Google didn't seem to turn up any sources. Maybe I had the wrong terms.

Any help would be much appreciated!

$da3 isn't very well researched, i'm not suprised that nobody has found it. is this mostly at idle? or...

I see the oscillations at idle and cruise. Basically swings from .100 to .850 or so I'd say. I can feel the surging I believe. I know at least in theory I should increase the integrator delay due to the fact that the O2 sensors are in the header extension pipe , not even in the collectors, which is of course quite a long way further than they were stock. So I wanted to at least attack that since it makes sense from a physical standpoint - and then evaluate how far that gets me.

Also, I don't have emissions equipment on the car, so was hoping to decrease greatly the oscillations about stoich, with the hopes that I may be able to lean it out some for better mileage cruising. With the oscillations I have now, I can't reduce the swing points much since it goes so darn lean before coming back around. Taking the proportional gain down some should help with this correct?

So TunerCats wouldn't have this available either? Would any of the commercial guys be able to do this I wonder? They could take my bin, modify the two tables and send back perhaps?

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Basically swings from .100 to .850 or so I'd say.

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depending on the rate of swing that could be exactly how it should work when healthy, you do realize that healthy o2s are supposed to switch from nil to full voltage, right? lets see a chart of your o2 voltage at cruise once things stabilize and i'll tell you if the integrator delay is the issue or not

with integrator delay times, it's not really a physical length difference you're playing with, as much as you aren't rolling a ball down a hill, you're blowing a pulsating fluid through a system of pipes. a longer header with smaller primaries might actually see the pulses (and hence read the change) even sooner than a stock manifold due to differing velocity. although that's usually not the case, the point is that the ideal delay might not be as large as you think it is.

i've definitely got longtube cars to play just fine in closed loop without messing with the integrator (and so did the thousands of other tuners that tuned longtube EE cars before we added that stuff to EEX only a few years ago)

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lso, I don't have emissions equipment on the car, so was hoping to decrease greatly the oscillations about stoich, with the hopes that I may be able to lean it out some for better mileage cruising.

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narrowband systems wont really do that to a reasonable extent. you can fudge it a bit but in the end it'll just modulate even worse. the o2 switching point is incredibly unstable outside a 'narrow band' near stoich. if you want decently leaner than stoich i'd reccommend open loop.

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So TunerCats wouldn't have this available either?

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not last time i checked, but you could email and ask him. he might have a disassembly or data sheet with that parameter available, he is a "commercial guy" after all.. he definitely has more parameters than are available in his regular definitions for most masks, and won't really add them unless people ask?

Hotrodf1,
Are you using heated sensors?

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Originally Posted by steveo

depending on the rate of swing that could be exactly how it should work when healthy, you do realize that healthy o2s are supposed to switch from nil to full voltage, right? lets see a chart of your o2 voltage at cruise once things stabilize and i'll tell you if the integrator delay is the issue or not

with integrator delay times, it's not really a physical length difference you're playing with, as much as you aren't rolling a ball down a hill, you're blowing a pulsating fluid through a system of pipes. a longer header with smaller primaries might actually see the pulses (and hence read the change) even sooner than a stock manifold due to differing velocity. although that's usually not the case, the point is that the ideal delay might not be as large as you think it is.

i've definitely got longtube cars to play just fine in closed loop without messing with the integrator (and so did the thousands of other tuners that tuned longtube EE cars before we added that stuff to EEX only a few years ago)



narrowband systems wont really do that to a reasonable extent. you can fudge it a bit but in the end it'll just modulate even worse. the o2 switching point is incredibly unstable outside a 'narrow band' near stoich. if you want decently leaner than stoich i'd reccommend open loop.



not last time i checked, but you could email and ask him. he might have a disassembly or data sheet with that parameter available, he is a "commercial guy" after all.. he definitely has more parameters than are available in his regular definitions for most masks, and won't really add them unless people ask?

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Originally Posted by Axman

Hotrodf1,
Are you using heated sensors?

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Yes, some bosch 4 wire units, I forget the part number.

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Originally Posted by steveo

depending on the rate of swing that could be exactly how it should work when healthy, you do realize that healthy o2s are supposed to switch from nil to full voltage, right? lets see a chart of your o2 voltage at cruise once things stabilize and i'll tell you if the integrator delay is the issue or not

with integrator delay times, it's not really a physical length difference you're playing with, as much as you aren't rolling a ball down a hill, you're blowing a pulsating fluid through a system of pipes. a longer header with smaller primaries might actually see the pulses (and hence read the change) even sooner than a stock manifold due to differing velocity. although that's usually not the case, the point is that the ideal delay might not be as large as you think it is.

i've definitely got longtube cars to play just fine in closed loop without messing with the integrator (and so did the thousands of other tuners that tuned longtube EE cars before we added that stuff to EEX only a few years ago)



narrowband systems wont really do that to a reasonable extent. you can fudge it a bit but in the end it'll just modulate even worse. the o2 switching point is incredibly unstable outside a 'narrow band' near stoich. if you want decently leaner than stoich i'd reccommend open loop.



not last time i checked, but you could email and ask him. he might have a disassembly or data sheet with that parameter available, he is a "commercial guy" after all.. he definitely has more parameters than are available in his regular definitions for most masks, and won't really add them unless people ask?

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So I wonder where the slow surges are coming from. Thanks for the input all, I'll be out of pocket next week, but I plan on doing some thinking about this. I had indeed thought that perhaps the best way around this is to go open loop. Heard a few folks sing praises about that. What woudl be a good resource to dig into going that way? I'm assuming your VE maps need to be pretty spot on to even begin? Does one expect to see issues if you change fuels (89 to 91, summer to winter, etc)., or does the calibration pretty much take care of adjusting (weather, temps, etc).

depends what you mean by 'spot on'. if you want a good open loop tune, just give up on the false assumption that a stoich mixture is required for a good running, efficient engine. engines like less fuel under light loads and more fuel under heavy loads. nothing wrong with closed loop, but if it's not working for you, no reason you can't chunk it.

Yeah I'm hoping to get to 15.4 or so at least to see if it'll put up with it. I had a 406 at 11.6:1 that seemed to. Maybe I can st least get the surfing to call down.

Do you just turn the temp for closed loop way up so it never gets there? How much more to do to try it?

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Do you just turn the temp for closed loop way up so it never gets there?

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yeah that usually works just fine.