amc 304 conversion

Hello
I wrote this in my introduction but i think more members will read it here and i fear it will become a longer thread.
I have a Jeep CJ7 with the 304 engine, i want to implement a tbi systemof a chevy astro ."I could get my hands on the TBI injection system of a chevy with 4,3l engine and automatic gear.I could grab nearly everything without the VSS. The ecu is the 161 96395. So what do you think,can i implement this system in my Jeep?
Problem i have right now is, i can not get contact to the ecu with usb ttl cable and all the diagnostic programms i have found. I connected the ecu to a battery, is there a minimum voltage for reading the ecu?, I can here the fuel pump relais and the ses light comes on when i connect to the battery!"
Dave already showed the link on two threads with moates and here in the forum.
What would be a good memcal for this car and this engine.Does somebody else already change the carburator of a 304 to TBI.
Moates says i will have problems because the memcal (ecu) is from a 6cyl engine while the 304 is a 8 cyl.Can I switch off the VSS in the BJBB.bin
A lot of questions --in this post.

The 16196395 usually requires a VSS. The 16196395 can use a 2000 Pulses Per Mile VSS.

Some VSS is options: https://www.ebay.com/itm/85-89-TPI-R...5.c10#viTabs_0 and https://jagsthatrun.com/collections/...s/speed-sensor

The VSS Can Not be disabled in the .bin file.

Maybe there is way disable the VSS with some wiring harness modifications?

dave w

This link may be helpful.
http://www.bigscaryjeep.com/TBI_Page.html

And you should try to find a V8 memcal.

Thank you for the hint, but I think the 306 is much different to the 304.For the memcal, i have already found some bins here in the forum for the 16196395. My actual problem is that the electronic part of the chevy distributor does not work together with the reluctor and hall sensor of the amc distributor. I have to order a distributor from a chevy taho, blazer or caprice with the 8cyl engines. The 4,3l is a 6 cyl. My second problem is still the connection to the ecu. I have a fdti usb cable and a CP2102 (silicon vally) usb ttl cable. Both do not get connection from ehack (winaldl, freescan) to the ecu.All the other parts are already in the car. I had to build two adaptor blades for the TBI to the engine. A thicker one as connection between block and TBI and a thin one between both. Because a channel on bottom of the tbi was right over the mounting screw of the thick blade :-)

There are several options available for a distributor, and several options for connecting to the 16196395 computer.

The GM 8 pin HEI is a good option for the AMC 304 TBI. http://performancedistributors.com/w...44-300x300.jpg

This article shows how to convert an AMC distributor to a GM 4 Pin ignition module, but the 8 pin module can be used instead of the 4 pin. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/conv...ion-to-gm-hei/


The GM remote coil is a good option for the AMC TBI. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-p...s/coil-efi.jpg


The ALDL Cable from ALDL.com is a good option to connect with the 16196395 computer using TunerPro RT software. http://aldlcable.com/products/aldlobd1u.asp and http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm

dave w

This article shows how to convert an AMC distributor to a GM 4 Pin ignition module, but the 8 pin module can be used instead of the 4 pin. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/conv...ion-to-gm-hei/

dave w[/QUOTE]

Hi Dave w thats exactly what I tried with the 8 pin module, but didn't work. I think the impulse from the reluctor and sensor is too weak or i have changed cables from module to distributor, i will try again!

I thought it will not start becauseof the distributor conversion but now I think the fault is within my connections. This ecu is out of an astra with automatic gear. But I have a three speed manual gear, so there is no connection to the gearbox ecu. Which of the 10 gearbox connections do i have to connect , give 12v or earth to have the park nutrual switch simulated?

Distributor conversion works now- i had notconnected the ground of the electronic.
Next question: what will happen when i connect B10 (cruise control) to ground or plus? Will it work as a park nutrual switch?

"Which of the 10 gearbox connections do i have to connect" - i saw on an other wiring diagramm these connections are for some solenoids insite the AT so I will forget them!

Quote:

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Next question: what will happen when i connect B10 (cruise control) to ground or plus? Will it work as a park nutrual switch?

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I do not believe I've seen confirmation. On manual transmission applications it is not connected. The same could be done for an automatic.

The older 1227747 TBI computer has a Park / Neutral wire.

The 16196395 TBI computer does not have Park / Neutral wire.

The option of using a VSS along with programming for Manual Transmission is a Very Good Option.

dave w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave w

The option of using a VSS along with programming for Manual Transmission is a Very Good Option.

dave w

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I wanted to do that with means of eehack, but I can not get connection to the ecu. So I have to buy a programmer first.
Next question: fuel pump should be able for 3bar but how much is the regulated pressure in the system. I have only about 1 bar!

eehack is for the LT1 engine. eehack is Not for a TBI engine. The correct TBI fuel pressure is 1 Bar.

Good post for TBI information: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-0D The post is for computer 16197427, the 16196395 computer is very similar.

The 16196395 computer uses an EPROM Chip. Yes you are correct, an EPROM Chip programmer is required to reprogram a 16196395 Chip.

EPROM Chips require a Ultra Violet (UV) Light to be erased before the EPROM Chip can be reprogrammed.

dave w

Today i could get the engine running. But i have still the problem of no connection to the ecu.
Who has the same type of ecu (16196395) and has connection to the ecu. Which data cable and which diagnostic programm do you use?Is there an other trick like connecting an additional resister, every hint is apreciated!

I have used 6395 for years. Tunerpro rt and moats apu

To read the 16196395 chip (Binary File or .bin file) I use the Moates.net Burn 2. The Moates.net APU will also read the .bin file from the 16196395.

To Data Log, I use an ALDL Cable and TunerPro RT software.

The 16196395 computer not like newer computers that can be programmed (read / write) using the Diagnostic connector (OBD Connector).

dave w

I had thought about life data directly from the car. Which program will work?

TunerPro RT

This video is for the older 1227747 TBI, your TBI is very similar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIXs-CBJXgE

dave w

Is there no program what can read ecu over the diagnostic connector?

with the moates cables and tuner pro you use it through the aldl port. That might not be what you were asking but to be clear I plug the cable into the port, plug it into the laptop and data log. Then on the computer you make the changes you want, then with same equipment you burn a chip, put it in the ecu and then data log again until you are happy it is right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mecanicus

Is there no program what can read ecu over the diagnostic connector?

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The question has two answers.

1. There is NO Software that can read / write the CHIP over the diagnostic connector.

2. YES, TunerPro RT Software uses the diagnostic connector to data log. TunerPro RT is software that can also be a SCAN TOOL!

dave w

@ dave w
ok i understood! Now I have found where to set the com port in tunerpro rt and will try to connect there.
Next question: which newer ecu can be connected to eehack so I would possibly buy an other used ecu, would eventually be cheaper than buying all the other programming equipment like adapters and programer.Switching to 27SF512 and then working directly on the car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mecanicus

Next question: which newer ecu can be connected to eehack so I would possibly buy an other used ecu, would eventually be cheaper than buying all the other programming equipment like adapters and programer.Switching to 27SF512 and then working directly on the car.

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eehack is ONLY for the 1994 - 1995 LT1 engine.

The LT1 computer CAN NOT operate a TBI engine.

eehack software CAN NOT be used on a TBI engine computer!

The Ostrich 2.0 is a good option for the 16196395 TBI Computer.

Attachment 13451

http://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-the....html?cPath=64

The Ostrich 2.0 will allow the 16196395 computer to work like a "FLASH" computer. The Ostrich 2.0 is programmed by TunerPro RT. The Ostrich 2.0 does not use Chips. The Ostrich 2.0 Eliminates the Chip in the 16196395 computer. The Ostrich 2.0 can be programmed, even when the TBI engine running! The Ostrich is programmed with a USB Cable.


dave w

understood!
next question: i'm a bit confused about the masks, is there a thread what explains them?

Masks are similar to Year / Make / Model / Engine / Transmission.

The best Mask / Memcal option for an AMC 304 with a 16196395 computer is listed below. Purchase the Memcal listed below, then get to work programming and tuning the AMC 304 with an Ostrich 2.0.

$OD 4.3 Liter TBI / 5.0 Liter TBI / 5.7 Liter TBI engines using the 4L60E transmission. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-0D

BHMD 94 C-K Truck 5.0TBI 4l60e with 3.73 or 3.42 gears.Bin

Ebay Auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Prom-Chip-B...S!-1:rk:2:pf:0

dave w

@Dave w

"Masks are similar to Year / Make / Model / Engine / Transmission." Do youhave more info about that?

I found V8 mod.jpg somewhere here in the forum and saved the picture. Now I wanted to have a look to it but the picture has only 3 kb and is too small. May you publish it here again or give me the link where it was.Do you have more info about modifying the memcal. I still have the old eeprom BJBB engine runs but cuts off at a certain rpm ( have to connect a rpm-meter)
mecanicus

Masks are also called definition files: http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm

Masks or definition files are specific to Year / Make / Model / Engine / Transmission / Computer Part Number. Masks or definition files allow TunerPro software to organize binary code (.bin file) into Scalars, Flags, and Tables.

I have not modified a 16196395 V6 Memcal to a 16196395 V8 Memcal. The Memcal also has the knock sensor filter, and limp home function. A good plan would to use an original 16196395 V8 Memcal.

dave w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mecanicus

@Dave w

"Masks are similar to Year / Make / Model / Engine / Transmission." Do youhave more info about that?

I found V8 mod.jpg somewhere here in the forum and saved the picture. Now I wanted to have a look to it but the picture has only 3 kb and is too small. May you publish it here again or give me the link where it was.Do you have more info about modifying the memcal. I still have the old eeprom BJBB engine runs but cuts off at a certain rpm ( have to connect a rpm-meter)
mecanicus

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Remove the EEPROM and solder in a flash chip to the memcal.
A Burn2 from moates + cheap adapter will then allow you to read/flash the memcal. TunerPro used to datalog and modify .bin as needed/desired.
This would be your lowest cost tuning option.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NC...g=w886-h664-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sr...a=w886-h664-no

Thanks for the answers. In the meanwhile i ordered a memcal with BPSA.bin, this should be for a 5,7 manual shift 8 cyl engine.It should arive next few days. As well I could manage to get on the PCM with tunerprort. None of the other free programms connected to the pcm. As well I have XGpro 866II Programmer and a spare sst27 eeprom so I can try other bins too.At the moment I'm working on the fueltank to implement the according fuelpunp.I will report when its ready.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave w

Masks are also called definition files: http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm


I have not modified a 16196395 V6 Memcal to a 16196395 V8 Memcal. The Memcal also has the knock sensor filter, and limp home function. A good plan would to use an original 16196395 V8 Memcal.

dave w

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I could find the picture again and I found according thread on pcmhacking. So I tried modifying the memcal. When having the engine run no dtc any longer and i think it was running in limp mode. So I ordered the BPSA memcal!

Now I have the BPSA memcal und would like to backup it with tunerpro rt but I get error message that checksum authorization is not valid. At an other place I can read that tunerpro will repair checksum if not valid. What can I do. I would have the chance to read the bin with the programmer but therefore i would need the exact type of the eeprom. Who can help?

Finaly I could read the original eeproms. I choosed Philipps 27c512 and the programmer could read the eeproms. Now I have the bin on an eraseable eprom and can play with that. I have changed some pameters according to other manual shifted cars and engine is running smooth now.My last bigger problem was the O2 sensor no signal from there.On the conversion sheet for harness of old ecm to newer ecm there is A10 plus from O2 sensor and A12 minus to the O2 sensor, i had to connect this minus with ground too , no problems any more and ses light is off.I have VSS too and connected but no speed sensor connected up to know, I have to find a solution for this too.But dave already showed some places to get these sensors! If somebody needs BPSA.bin or BJBB. bin , i can provide them, I do not know how to attach them here. Beside the help here I could fint good hints on the tunerpro forum too.
Thanks to all who could help here.

Hello,
engine is running with a slightly altered bin.Attached the bin, the xdf and enlarged adx.As well as logfile.
Who wants to diagnose my logfile and give hints for improvement based on the adx.Some of the parameters i do not understand. Engine is running lean but this may be due to the injectors, tbi is from a 4,3 l engine now its on a 5l engine.
How can I set the distributor on a pointless system with flashlight, (not the static version with piston on deadpoint).

I'm searching for BHMK,BHML,BJCT, these are bins for 5l engine, want to compare with my BPSA