what does the little removable chip do? do you need to program it when you program the big chip 2732 a?
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what does the little removable chip do? do you need to program it when you program the big chip 2732 a?
It's called a "CALPAK" it's an assembly of resistors, that sets up hardware settings, for cylinder count, and other things that need to be set that way.
No, there is no programming involved.
i down loaded the hyway cruise for the 12147747 and i dont really know what to change. i need a usb adld cable that will work with tuner pro or tunercats if any one has one for sale, so i can data log on a 91 4.3 chevy pickup. i dont have a data logger and have proggramed 384 chips for this truck, it is close but not just right, some one put a 273 rear end in it an the spark, fuel, egr, are way off what they sould be. been guessing for 3 years at what to set things at.wanted to get a ostich from motes ,after reading what i posted maybe a different rear gear ratio should come first. still need a data log cable.
Other then turing things on and off, I would'nt know what to change in a bin file without data to tell what needs changed. You need a cable! Then start with a fresh/stock chip/bin.
It's not the gear ratio...
If you have a 4.3 and you're running a 2.73 rear end then you may want to go with a little lower gear ratio. I'm sure that the thing gets good mileage on the highway, but it's gotta run like a dog around town. I got my cable from Moates.net and it has worked flawlessly for a few years now. The price seems pretty reasonable to me at $80, but the main thing is that it works well with tunerpro and isn't difficult to set up. The only software required to use the cable is just the FTDI chipset driver that can be found anywhere including the moates website. Here's a link to the product page http://www.moates.net/aldu1-and-cabl...bl1-combo.html . I can identify with what you've had to deal with as my first tuning experience was with a nissan that had no data stream capability at all.
thanks for the info,proggramed a chip with hy way cruise today.just run it in the garage didnt drive it, run fast at idle,put my other chip in wouldnt go into close loop till i drove about 6 mile then restarted the truck. i guss the patch had already started to do its thing.the ecm always went closed loop after about a 1mile or less.waitting on a data logger before i do anymore testing.
How do you know open/closed loop without data logging?
You should have a good tune, backed up by data before using hyway lean cruise.
Lean cruise will not work while parked, warming up. It needs to meet qualifiers before entering open loop/HiWay Lean Cruise.
i have a snapon scanner.
That explains a lot. So you do have some data... it's a lot harder to do with scan tool, you'll like computer data when you get the cable.
Watch long term fuel trim should be 118 to 128 when goes into HyWay Lean Cruise. Actually it can be a wider range but fairly accurate there. Make sure parameters in the bin file are set and you know what they are and scan tool should show it go open loop. Want the MAP setting low enough to exit and resume closed loop when load is greater like pulling trailer or big hill.
So what software are you using to make the bin changes? If TunerPro there's some updated $42 ADX and XDF files. When data logging with the ADX file it's like scan tool on steroids. Are you still using the UV erase chips? What bin did you start with?
i started with aksf bin, i have been using tunerpro to edit still using the old uv eraser. going to make a test run going to work this morning got about a 4 mile fairly flat strech of hy way. maybe i will get my cable by the weekend
tried it out this morning map was to high to work right, this silly truck will run 85 mph in third gear and still going,shifted to 4th gear afraid of throughing the rods out, wot,lost 5 mph ,on into 5 th gear went down to 70 mph, milk it it will hold 72 in 5th gear on flat ground run out of high way had to slow down. at 70 mph it going 1890 rpm in 5th gear. any way i should get my data cable this weakend and have sumore fun.
:innocent:i got my cable today , downloading drivers now, wont be able to data log till tommorow afternoon, kinduf exited as to what i might learn. i have got a ob2 auto enginenuity scanner program i use at work,it has a lot of stuff in it an if i understuid all of it i could fix a lot more than i do. we work on ever thing but chain saws an weed eaters.sure is a lot easyer with an electric starter motor. if my data logger works i will have some fun tommorow afternoon. to be countinued.
Even if the Auto Enginuity OBDII software works for the OBDI? You'd be better off from a tuner perspective by using TunerPo RT
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...is-a-must-read
and the XDF ADX files in this thread.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-42
TunerPro has a Data Logger.
Agreed ! For me it just makes things simpler and easier to be able to log and edit with the same program. This is ESPECIALLY handy if you make the proper changes to enable the map trace function as it takes the guesswork out of a LOT of the tuning process.Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMark
The map (data trace) is all set up in those ADX,XDF files. All you have to do while connected to vehicle is click the Data Trace button.
For adjusted fuel VE there is a spreadsheet built.
Writeup on how to combine the 2 VE tables and smooth them.
Pretty easy way to start and learn.
i made a trip to madisonville datalogging all the way,my autoenginuity only works on obd 2. it will take me a while to fiqure out how to use pro tuner, this is a very neat program. it looks like i got a vac leak or a worn out engine. at 78kpa dont have no vaccum 1.50 tps 70 mph, 1850 rpm 5th gear. wish i had got some chips an sockets with my cable, i think i have about worn out my uv erasables.
I've only ever bought my tuning hardware from moates.net just because it is a great and reliable source that carries just about everything I usually need. With that being said, they have everything you need at a reasonable price. The typical 28 pin 512k eeproms will set you back about $5 each and will last virtually forever. The 24 to 28 pin adapter is ~$30 I believe, a 28 pin ZIF socket is ~$10, and I think that the chip reader/eraser is ~$85. The chip burner they sell is capable of doing a read only on most of your older UV chips like the original 24 pin chips used in the 747 so you can still pull images out of the original proms and memcals while being able to flash the new style eeproms. They will also work with the 32 pin 4mb chips for those that like to use a switcher. Anywho, that takes care of the hardware. Your readings of 78kpa with 1.5v TPS and 1850 RPM @70 sounds a little off, but a high mileage 4.3 in a full size truck with a 2.73 gear is going to explain SOME of that. But, there are several things that need to be checked as well. Any source of a vacuum leak, egr function, BLM and INT values, CTS readings, timing advance settings, etc...... All of those will affect vacuum while cruising. It sounds like, for whatever reason, the engine is straining to maintain that speed which is why I suggest the rearend gearing as PART of the problem. For example, I had a 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix equipped with a 2bbl Buick 231ci V6, TH350 trans, & 2.43 rear end ratio. That car would cruise at 80mph all day long and barely sip the gas, but getting to 80mph or maintaining speed on a grade was quite a task. It also did not like "intermediate" speeds either where the RPM wasn't high enough and momentum wasn't either. It did very well at 80mph, but 55mph could be difficult without it constantly "hunting" gears between 2nd and 3rd. Hope some of this info was useful,
Phil
thanks for the info, just got on the internt came a thunder storm and knocked out the power. going to order some chips an sockets. got about 15 old chips in my eraser cooking might get one more program write i hope.
iam not use to the tuner pro data logger, i drove about 20 mile hyway and mud roads i got a 85 knock count . is this hi, low, wondering about adding more timming to the table?:mad1::mad1:
The 1227747 knock counts are accumulated, so the number means nothing. It could be 85 in all cells and not have one knock count.
Now you did the Hyway Lean Cruise Patch, did you also do the ESC done patch? This turns off the forced knock test that usually happens when warmed up and over 50 MPG at a steady state. All of a sudden for no reason WHAM! Knock counts! Really plays havoc on high compression engines with lots of timing.
Back to knock counts that are accumulated, IIRC start at 1 to 255 because of 256 bit computer thing. This is Roberts area.
Use TunerPro and play back log, you can speed up, slow down or go frame by frame which is needed here since this ECM get's data at a whopping fast rate of once every 1.2 seconds!!! :yikes: So knock is 1 and bounces around the Knock Counter History table and all of a sudden in one cell jumps to 50, then next cell 80 then next cell 95, or it stays in that cell and increases. This would be a good indication of real good knock. It could also spin past 1, 50, 80 and come up lower then that number.
So the way to use it is watching for activity!
If you find knock then a safe back off is 4 to 6 degrees. There is an area of no power gain and pre detonation condition that will raise heat in piston that is cooled by oil, so could watch if you had oil temp gauge and good data, but this is still slow to show!
There's also WOT high RPM that will create false knock on a good sound stock engine, worse on built or loud or old noisy engines. Have to build timing table properly and then can back off timing here to check and see knock counts still there.
There's also knock retard to think of! So if you use the ADX and XDF files, install the Spark Advance Hac from XDF file and you will have actual Spark Advance in data log.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...=spark+advance
Cross check... knock counts go up = check to see if timing was being retarded to stop knock counts. This can confuse you as to an area knock because your only getting knock count in one cell because knock retard pulled timing by next cell!
Advanced spark advance knock count topic: If your timing table is in order and knock counts rarely then remove knock retard timing and do same data log run. Did you get knock counts in a cell near where you've been working?
Data Logging: Always start with a totally warmed up engine and especially if your TBI then drive a little or rev engine to 2000 RPM for 30 seconds to dry out intake. Remove power from ECM to clear learn. Start vehicle then start your log. Should also have a planned data log drive. I have a couple short ones to make sure things are in order and vehicle has no issues! Then some city to freeway, freeway has flats and mountain grades, back home, 20 -25 minutes. Now you always have good data to data comparison.
There's some work that can be done to spark table before getting VE fuel tables done. But fuel has to be correct before pushing timing. One thing that helps is to smooth the timing table, this is an example for fuel but you'll get the idea.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...4-7747-ve1-ve2
Then when you add timing fueling may need some work again. Timing table for a light car like Camaro is way more aggressive then a heavy truck. You can add a lot of timing to a truck if you don't pull a trailer. Some masks show timing that is actual and some show with 10 degrees bias, so what you see in timing table may not be actual! "So where did you say your timing is at?"
Be careful! You can post logs and bin here and I'll help if you want.
Mark pretty much nailed that answer pretty good, but I just wanted to add a couple tips. The knock count for your log is just fine, but due to some of the other things you have stated I would advise that you cover a few basics first before you go any further. If you don't have an engine in decent shape to begin with, you are just wasting time trying to tune it to run better. I would start with checking the base timing and making sure that it is set properly. Also, because of what you have noticed in previous drives, it wouldn't hurt to do a compression check, a fuel pressure check, and make sure there are no vacuum leaks. A visual check of the spark plugs can also let you know if you are running too lean at times. Once you are confident that the mechanical aspect is covered, then it is much easier to understand what you are seeing in your data logs and make the appropriate adjustments. Just an opinion based on the info you have provided thus far, it sounds like you MAY be running a little too lean in certain areas and probably don't have enough timing advance in certain areas. But, that is definitely just a wild guess and nothing more.
i will do some more testing this week and post back, thanks for the info.
when you install the 27sf512 chip do you remove the chip to program it or re flash it though the adld connector?
You still have to remove it and program like the old UV erase. But it only takes a click of mouse to erase.
what do i need to install it in my ecm to make it easy to remove an replace? you are right about tape on the uv erasables in my case,i think the silver heat pipe tape did some thing left it off very small knock count with the same timming an about the same fuel. a 1227747 is a pull an swope with a 16144288, the 288 is what come in my truck. getting this thing to work but running out of old uvs, if i order tonight i will get my supplies friday can work on it saturday unless something breaks down:jfj:
You need a Moates G2 adapter is the easiest and can order the 27FS512 chips there too.
http://www.moates.net/g2-memory-adap...g-spacing.html
Or Dave did a writeup on DIY...
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...rsion-(27SF512)
You still have to purchase a 28 pin ZIF socket separately with the G2 adapter, but it is all available there on the same site. That's the site I recommended earlier. Installing the G2 adapter requires removing the plastic terminal retainer for the PROM socket from the ecm daughterboard and then desoldering the pins so that you can solder the adapter to the daughterboard. It sounds more difficult than it is though as anyone with decent soldering skills and a little patience can do the job fairly easily. The moates site has lots of documentation for their products explaining the installation as well.
If you solder the G2 adapter directly to board without DIP sockets as shown in instructions the adapter and chip will clear cover when done.
ZIP socket on top is great tool while tuning.
got all my supplys getting ready to put every thing to gather. been doing alot of reading this week and got a ? for eagle mark or anyone . my programmer is a mcumall gq-4x on the fill buffer from to adress and file and device offset do i have to change the numbers in the boxes when programming the 27sf512 chip? all i have programmed has been 2732 .
Choose the ST 27FS12 chip through the Mcumall software and offsets will be there.
The offsets have never been there for me automatically, when using my GQ-3X, only with the Burn 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMark
It's a good idea to verify the offsets, even when using a program that automatically sets them. On the Moates website there is a page that explains offsets and what to set for each size EEPROM and file size being used.
I just tried and no offsets? Although I've never used the GQ 4x for other then 2732a chips and never chose an offset, just chose the chip.
http://support.moates.net/programmin...using-offsets/
some where i read where you sodered 4 pins to gather, the chip programs verifys but i got a fast check engine light and i think its in hobble home mode, i put the 2732 in the zip socket works fine no light runs good. i didnt no if connecting the pins made up for the off sets or what .
That was my mistake, if putting a 2732a bin on the chip the GQ4x just puts it in. Same size file on same size chip. But what is happeneing now is you have a same small size bin file in a larger chip. It needs to be offset so bin file ends on bottom of newer bigger chip, not on top or middle.
You'll have to figure out what that offset is from the moates link above and entered into the GQ4x... I don't know, I use the AutoProm for 27FS512 chips and info from Moates, I only use the GQ4X for the 2732a chips because Moates products don't support that chip.
we will get it figured out, lots of programmers on here,that zip socket sure is a easy chip swap,still got some 2732s left to play with today. getting about 19.5 mpgs and running pretty good, my 2732s are old 300ns they are slow compared to the 27sf512.
got it going, read six shooters artical set the file offset to f000 it works, got to go data loging now, temp droped 40 dgress so i imagen there will be a lot of changes from yesterday.:mad1: