Problem with my MTX-L wideband

So some of you may know I just recently installed a set of headers on my cherokee. When I installed them I decided to move my wideband from the passenger side down pipe to the drivers side where my narrow band is. So I installed the headers, and installed a short collector (seen here: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...and-o2-sensors )
So I decided it was probably a good idea to do another free air calibration on it before I installed it. I followed the innovate instructions, powered up the mtx-l with the sensor unhooked, left it on for over 30 seconds. Turned it back off, hooked up the sensor, turned it back on, it went through its normal power on flashy lights, then the heater, then it calibration, then to the upper limit of 22.4 (like its supposed to do) I then turned it back off, installed the sensor in the exhaust, and fired it up. Well no dice, its stuck at 22.4. I turn on the ignition, it comes on like normal, I start the engine, it heats up, then when it would normally start displaying afr, it just jumps to 22.4 and stays there. I test drove it and it never changed. I let it cool, un hooked it, removed it, did another free air calibration, but no change. wtf? All I did was install headers. Its been working flawlessly for the past two years, I install headers and now it wont work? I checked, and double checked all my wires, the cable going to the sensor, etc. I can find nothing wrong.
I called innovate today and the guy I talked to said there is nothing wrong with it, and that its a semi common issue. He asked how I had it powered, and that was my problem. I have a 30 amp relay powering one side of a small 4 gang fuse panel I mounted under the dash. 1 fuse powers the ecm, the 2nd powers the injectors, the 3rd powers the heating element in the narrow band o2, then the 4th I have powering the MTX-L. He said it should not be like that, and should be on its own relay straight from the battery with nothing else hooked to that power wire. I told him its been working perfectly fine like this for a couple years, he said it didnt matter, it was wrong and that was my problem. He said something happened to make it recalibrate when it was in the exhaust with the engine running. He said to re wire it to have its own power relay and then recalibrate it, and it would work.

I'm kinda skeptical, but I am going to take him for his word, I have plenty of relays and wire, so it wont be to hard to add another one. But still, why suddenly did it decide to not work? Anyone have any ideas? Ever seen something simillar? I asked about the headers being coated, and different gaskets could have caused a different ground path, he said no as its grounded through the wires/guage and not the exhaust.

This is part of the reason I will never own an Innovate product again. Random failures, and it was always "something the customer did."

There's no reason why the WBO2 needs it's own power supply from, the battery, and not shared like you have.

The only thing I can think of that MIGHT cause an issue is the fluctuation caused by the injectors, but on the 12V side that should be a very small ripple.

It would be pretty simple to wire in a temp relay and give it a shot. The instructions say it should be wired that way and that's the way I wire my LC-1 with no issues. Been on and off at least 20 cars with no failures.

Not sure why it would make a difference since it has been run that way for years? During the headers and changes something could have changes in wiring? Grounds are very important.

Can you update/reflash firmware with a MTX-L ?

I've experienced a similar glitch with the MTX-L. What I ended up doing, was something similar to the what the tech support person described. I installed an inline fuse from the ignition switch to supply both "ON / START" power to the MTX-L, no relay in my installation. The issue I was having was intermittent no power up from the MTX-L. The vehicle owner had power going to the MTX-L from the ignition switch in the "ON" only position.

On my own personal MTX-L I experienced a complete unable to power up the MTX-L, which was replaced free (still under the 1 year warranty) by Innovate.

The only reason I purchased the MTX-L was because the 14.7 product (products that Six_Shooter likes) were not available, on back-order and / or otherwise unobtainable! I simply can not operate a tuning business without Tools! When I need a tool, I need a tool, not excuses! Maybe it was just bad timing for me when I needed to purchase 3 WBO2 products and 14.7 couldn't deliver?

dave w

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

It would be pretty simple to wire in a temp relay and give it a shot. The instructions say it should be wired that way and that's the way I wire my LC-1 with no issues. Been on and off at least 20 cars with no failures.

Not sure why it would make a difference since it has been run that way for years? During the headers and changes something could have changes in wiring? Grounds are very important.

Can you update/reflash firmware with a MTX-L ?

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I didnt change anything in the wiring when I installed the headers. I checked the grounds and everything was still fine. Not sure about the firmware, I'll have to look into that.

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Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns

I didnt change anything in the wiring when I installed the headers. I checked the grounds and everything was still fine. Not sure about the firmware, I'll have to look into that.

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I don't think you had the WBO2 installed with the headers for a very long, so heat damage to the WBO2 sensor is unlikely. Many WBO2 suppliers recommend a copper heat shield for the WBO2 sensor.

Is it possible the relocation of the WBO2 sensor might have damaged an internal wire? I'm wondering if maybe the heat cycles over time might have caused an internal connection inside the WBO2 sensor to become weak, which might have broken after relocation? This doesn't seem likely, but it seems likely something happen when the WBO2 was relocated.

dave w

you may have disturbed a join in the cable by the wideband plug.my innovate wideband errored out heaps until i cut the heatshrink off at the plug and found all the corroded solder joins they have in there

Interesting ideas. I dont guess there is really any way to test the sensor? I'm going to try and get the relay mounted and wires run tomorrow after work(if it doesnt rain) and see what it does.

Saw a similar issue on another forum, except his went max rich. Others had popped in and said it has happened to them and a simple reprogram of controller through the LM programmer software fixed it each time.

Really strange is most had mentioned working fine for years, then cam change, exhaust change, header change and WHAM!

Interesting. I'll try that if the rewiring doesnt fix it.

Well figured I better update this thread. I debated on doing it because I am kinda embaressed of what it ended up being.
My problem was that I didnt have the rest of the exhaust system on. I figured with it being about 3 inches up inside that pipe I had on there, it was enough to be ok. Apparently not. I never would have thought it would have effected it. I thought there was enough exhaust gas flowing over it and it was far enough away from the end of the pipe to give false readings. I finally got around to having my exhaust put back on today and now its back to working normally. :mad1: :rolleye: :laugh:

Nooo....

You need at LEAST 16" past the O2 sensor to have reliable readings, and even at 16" it can sometimes be too short, especially with large diameter tube.

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Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns

Well figured I better update this thread. I debated on doing it because I am kinda embaressed of what it ended up being.
My problem was that I didnt have the rest of the exhaust system on. I figured with it being about 3 inches up inside that pipe I had on there, it was enough to be ok. Apparently not. I never would have thought it would have effected it. I thought there was enough exhaust gas flowing over it and it was far enough away from the end of the pipe to give false readings. I finally got around to having my exhaust put back on today and now its back to working normally. :mad1: :rolleye: :laugh:

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Thanks for the update.:thumbsup:

That how we all learn.

dave w

Hhahaha, yep, I know now.