$EE Speed Density tune 383 LT1

This is the same car that I have been working on that had the 41 degrees timing at WOT. That issue is fixed. The car also had some wierd surging going on that seems to come and go. I am taking the car home over this weekend to do some tuning and troubleshooting. I plan to get it lined out for my buddy, so that I can be done with it. Since I think the MAF could be causing some of the issues, I thought about ditching it all together. A lot of the LS1 guys go speed density, I was kicking around the idea of doing it to this car. As far as I can tell I need to set the speed desity bit and turn off the MAF error code. Anyone ever do this?

This gets the MAF out of the air flow into the engine, this car is easy 500 hp and I think could benefit from removing it.

Been done lots. Speed Density Mode (X= Enabled) uncheck and DTC MAF System Diagnostic, Error 48 uncheck. Then tune VE like always.

Dave W made a VE Spreadsheet for me somewhere here... I lost my copy with laptop failure...

Working on this car this weekend, welded in a bung for the wide band, and tuning for speed density. Going pretty good so far except idle is going lean and BLM's are showing rich. I am trying raising idle RPM and raising idle timing, to get MAP reading to come down closer to 40 KPA. If I cant get this lined out how do I force Open Loop idle in this mask $EE. I see "Closed Loop Idle Enable Vehicle Speed" but not sure what it does. I modified the VE spread sheet floating around and added the RPM and MAP reading for this mask to help me with tuning off idle VE. But, if I cant fix idle I will have to go closed loop.

Here is the cam

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...csid=1111&sb=0

I've never found a way to OL Idle only with LT1 in TunerPro or TunerCat, but with that cam OL all the time does well. "Min. Cool. Temp. for Closed Loop" raise to max.

The O2 sensors are lieing at idle with that cam, but if it is running OK CL you can play with individual fuel trim at idle settings to remove/add fuel.

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

I've never found a way to OL Idle only with LT1 in TunerPro or TunerCat, but with that cam OL all the time does well. "Min. Cool. Temp. for Closed Loop" raise to max.

The O2 sensors are lieing at idle with that cam, but if it is running OK CL you can play with individual fuel trim at idle settings to remove/add fuel.

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Tuned on the car all day, raised idle to 950, and closed throtle advance is at 38 degrees. BLM's are still split but have came together some with these settings. Car idles really good so I will be leaving it in closed loop. Car pulls hard all the to 6500 RPM, was going a little lean up top though and timing was still a little too high. I subtracted some timing in the spark correction vs's temp table, -4 degrees. Now it sits at 32 degrees at WOT, AFR is about 13.2

Nice!

Trying to figure out why you took spark out of Spark Coolant table? Should be set to 0 at warmed up...

Did you ever notice the lack of Stoich and O2 paremeters in $EE?

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

Nice!

Trying to figure out why you took spark out of Spark Coolant table? Should be set to 0 at warmed up...

Did you ever notice the lack of Stoich and O2 paremeters in $EE?

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Remember this thread?

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-timing-at-WOT

I was still getting more advance at WOT then I wanted, 36 to 37 degrees. This was with the table zeroed out. So I subtracted 4 degrees from 85 KPA to 100 KPA all temp ranges. It worked great, it hits 32 degrees at 85 KPA and stays all the way to the rev limiter.

Yes I did there are not hardly any, unless they have just not been found yet. I still do not think there is complete hack for $EE yet.

I remember but thought it was fixed. So you still had 4 extra degrees? Is the EST/ICM stock GM?

There is a lot missing and I'm sure it's there. But without a disassembly/hack? That takes a lot of talent, beyond my capabilities...

Your split BLMs, I've fixed them by changing Individual Fuel Trim Off Idle to 1.00 for all cylinders. Then in idle table use a lazer heat gun to read header temps on each cylinder and get them dialed in. 1.00 again on all was better! Remember this Sequentail injection was for emmissions and only works below about 3000 RPM. Strange how differant bins for differant cars were all differant settings even if same motor.

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

I remember but thought it was fixed. So you still had 4 extra degrees? Is the EST/ICM stock GM?

There is a lot missing and I'm sure it's there. But without a disassembly/hack? That takes a lot of talent, beyond my capabilities...

Your split BLMs, I've fixed them by changing Individual Fuel Trim Off Idle to 1.00 for all cylinders. Then in idle table use a lazer heat gun to read header temps on each cylinder and get them dialed in. 1.00 again on all was better! Remember this Sequentail injection was for emmissions and only works below about 3000 RPM. Strange how differant bins for differant cars were all differant settings even if same motor.

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I thought I had it fixed too, it was better after zeroing the table but after having the car all weekend and being able to do some 4th gear wide open pulls to the rev limit, it was still showing too much timing. Since I knew zeroing this table took it down I figured why not subtract it from here to get it where I want.

He lives in the city so there is no room to open the car up, I live out in the country and have some nice straight back roads that knowone lives on. Still dangerous as hell though. I did a 4th gear pull from 45 mph to 120 mph pretty hairy....LOL


The right side seems to be richer across the board. I thought about setting them all to 1.00 but left them alone, or taking the right side, 2-4-6-8 to the lowest setting of the 4 numbers.

Latest .bin and log...See what you think.

Test drive log 2 has the 4th gear 120 MPH pull, also my .adx for logging my wide band.

If you set all Individual Fuel trim to 1.00 for Off Idle you'll be better off, then use Idle IFT at Idle and heat of header at each cylinder to smooth out idle. Even drop all to .90 or lower for Idle, this takes away fuel at idle to help with cam that is sending lies to O2 sensor. This is the only way I could get better idle without Prop Gain/O2 Rich/Lean/OL Idle paremters. In TunerCat there is three paremeters to help with this.
Individual Cyl. Fuel Trim Disable %TPS

Fast O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Vs. CL Mode

CL Mode Value Vs. AirFlow

In Speed Density there are no paremters for AE, this is handled by MAF sensor. You can see in your WB data where some AE is needed. Another reason that SD works better in OL. But OL does not help with daily driver when weather changes. The ones I have done were track only so daily reflash tunes were done.

It all adds up to limitations of the masks made. Since all these needed paremeters are in $42 and $0D, I would doubt they are not in $EE, just not documented. So there's only so much you can do to really dial in a tune on built engine. If it feels good and drives good? Then your good! You can't get data perfect without all the paremeters.

Have you tried the MAF? If it still has screen in the MAF tables should work? Screen may take away tiny amount of WOT HP, but without it is a totally differant (inaccurate) animal.
</rant off>

Your data looks good overall! Hows it drive? Need some more fuel WOT to get 12.x instead of 13.x, but I'm not sure if your WB data is accurate? Conversion may be .5 off? Looks like 10 to 20 AFR but conversion is 9.5... should be 10?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

If you set all Individual Fuel trim to 1.00 for Off Idle you'll be better off, then use Idle IFT at Idle and heat of header at each cylinder to smooth out idle. Even drop all to .90 or lower for Idle, this takes away fuel at idle to help with cam that is sending lies to O2 sensor. This is the only way I could get better idle without Prop Gain/O2 Rich/Lean/OL Idle paremters. In TunerCat there is three paremeters to help with this.
Individual Cyl. Fuel Trim Disable %TPS

Fast O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Vs. CL Mode

CL Mode Value Vs. AirFlow

In Speed Density there are no paremters for AE, this is handled by MAF sensor. You can see in your WB data where some AE is needed. Another reason that SD works better in OL. But OL does not help with daily driver when weather changes. The ones I have done were track only so daily reflash tunes were done.

It all adds up to limitations of the masks made. Since all these needed paremeters are in $42 and $0D, I would doubt they are not in $EE, just not documented. So there's only so much you can do to really dial in a tune on built engine. If it feels good and drives good? Then your good! You can't get data perfect without all the paremeters.

Have you tried the MAF? If it still has screen in the MAF tables should work? Screen may take away tiny amount of WOT HP, but without it is a totally differant (inaccurate) animal.
</rant off>

Your data looks good overall! Hows it drive? Need some more fuel WOT to get 12.x instead of 13.x, but I'm not sure if your WB data is accurate? Conversion may be .5 off? Looks like 10 to 20 AFR but conversion is 9.5... should be 10?

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The car drives great, I did that on purpose for the wideband because the reading in tunerpro was not matching the readout on the LM1 hand help. If I remember tunerpro readout was showing a little leaner. This got them really close. Is there another way to make them match? Now that I have it running good in speed density mode, should I try to stick the MAF back in to see how it does? The MAF still has the screen on it and is a stock unit.

Are the VE tables even used with the MAF?

I tried to richen up the upper end of the VE table (high map high RPM), and the open loop coolant temp table to make the WOT AFR richer.

Also is there a way to look at injector duty cycle?

WOT fueling is at "%Change To Fuel/Air Ratio Vs. RPM at WOT". This is like adding PE fuel.

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Also is there a way to look at injector duty cycle?

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Yes in TunerCat but no hack info for TP...

Wide band reading differant is probably a ground issue, not same ground for LM-1 and AutoProm.

I'd try the MAF. Many people say VE is not used in MAF except for cranking or if MAF fails... but I saw changes? MAF is all through MAF tables which is airflow, so where does it get fuel info? In LS 0411 there are VE tables under MAF. MAF tables are differant from Y body to B body to F body... so use MAF tables from whatever matches MAF sensor. But yours will be off by the differant cubic inch from stock. Could figure difference in cubic inch % and add that % to each entry, unless someone has given up MAF table for 383. Lots of unknowns... may have been more info back in the day? Can't find any saved... your finding same roadblocks I did...

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

WOT fueling is at "%Change To Fuel/Air Ratio Vs. RPM at WOT".This is like adding PE fuel.

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Should I add or take away to add more fuel. I noticed larger numbers for lower RPM's and lower numbers at high RPM's.

Add to any area that needs more fuel. I saw some to rich AFR at lower RPM during that pull but then seemed to lean to 13.7 to 1 and stay there.