TBI timing

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09-26-2016
White Stripe

TBI timing

I would apprecitate some help in my tbi conversion. Its on a straight 6 landcruiser engine. I added timing control by wiring in a pickup coil onto the stock distributor, have the coil and ignition module wired up from a s10 pickup truck. I have aldl droid so I can monitor live data. When I monitor the timing, the timing slowly works its way up from 1 to 90 degrees and then back to 1 and repeats the cycle. This has had me concerned so I checked the timing with a timing light, and at idle the timing is at 20 degrees while my live data just continues the count from 1 to 90. Whats strange is that at wot on a hill the counting pauses, then when I let off on a flat it continues upward to 90. I was reading that you are supposed to jump the knock sensor pin to a 5volt reference. I did not do this-I can but is it necessary? Also I read the ignition module is supposed to have a heat sink on it, mine never has. Is my module toast? Also I found the signal wire on the module (one of the wires going to the 4 pin plug) had rubbed through and was grounding so I am fixing that too. So I ordered a new module and heatsink. In aldl droid it lists the timing reading as ignition timing from hack. What does hack mean? Thanks for any help you guys can provide.
09-26-2016
sturgillbd

If you are using a 1227747 ecm, you have to apply a patch to the bin to get spark advance into the datastream. Your bin has not been patched so what you are seeing is not spark advance. Are you using a stock EPROM or are you burning your own chips?

Brian
09-26-2016
White Stripe

Quote:

Originally Posted by sturgillbd

If you are using a 1227747 ecm, you have to apply a patch to the bin to get spark advance into the datastream. Your bin has not been patched so what you are seeing is not spark advance. Are you using a stock EPROM or are you burning your own chips?

Brian

Thanks for the response. I am burning my own chips. Yes I have the 7747 ecm. A patch? I've never heard of that.
09-26-2016
89S10_Project

Quote:

Originally Posted by sturgillbd

If you are using a 1227747 ecm, you have to apply a patch to the bin to get spark advance into the datastream. Your bin has not been patched so what you are seeing is not spark advance. Are you using a stock EPROM or are you burning your own chips?

Brian

I need to do the same thing for my 5.7 transplant into my S10. I don't want to incur $300+ in purchases to get this ability- is there a simpler way to do it?
09-26-2016
Six_Shooter

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89S10_Project

I need to do the same thing for my 5.7 transplant into my S10. I don't want to incur $300+ in purchases to get this ability- is there a simpler way to do it?

You can buy all of the tuning equipment need to simply datalog and burn for very cheap, if you're handy with soldering and don't mind using somewhat more difficult to use programmers than the ones geared towards automotive tuning.

I gotta be honest though, I'm handy in both arenas (I work/play with electronics), and the "extra" expense of buying the Moates gear just makes it so easy. The Emulator(s) that are available make tuning VERY easy to do, and you can see the effect of the changes immediately (for most parameters), which cuts tuning time WAY down compared to the log n' burn method.
09-26-2016
White Stripe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

You can buy all of the tuning equipment need to simply datalog and burn for very cheap, if you're handy with soldering and don't mind using somewhat more difficult to use programmers than the ones geared towards automotive tuning.

I gotta be honest though, I'm handy in both arenas (I work/play with electronics), and the "extra" expense of buying the Moates gear just makes it so easy. The Emulator(s) that are available make tuning VERY easy to do, and you can see the effect of the changes immediately (for most parameters), which cuts tuning time WAY down compared to the log n' burn method.

So would it be better to do the notes conversion or get the EBL upgrade?
09-27-2016
sturgillbd

Here is a link to an inexpensive EEPROM programmer: http://www.sivava.com/programmer/wil...et-stl866.html

Winbond based EEPROMS ("Fake SST's"): http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-SST27SF512-70-3C-PG-SST-27SF512-EEPROM-DIP-28-/180955520912?hash=item2a21ca1f90:g:akAAAOSwR0JUNUx p

More EEPROMS: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pcs-2W27c5...3D230420406366

Chip sockets: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-IC-Mac...8AAMXQPatTJ45i

160 baud cable instructions for a standard serial port (works well with 1227747) : http://www.radanpro.com/Radan2400/PC/160%20Baud%20ALDL%20Hardware%20Interface.htm

Instructions for modifying a 1227747 to use a flash chip: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?172-7747-Flash-Chip-Conversion-(27SF512)
09-27-2016
Nasty-Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by sturgillbd

Here is a link to an inexpensive EEPROM programmer: http://www.sivava.com/programmer/wil...et-stl866.html

Winbond based EEPROMS ("Fake SST's"): http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-SST27SF512-70-3C-PG-SST-27SF512-EEPROM-DIP-28-/180955520912?hash=item2a21ca1f90:g:akAAAOSwR0JUNUx p

More EEPROMS: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pcs-2W27c5...3D230420406366

Chip sockets: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-IC-Mac...8AAMXQPatTJ45i

160 baud cable instructions for a standard serial port (works well with 1227747) : http://www.radanpro.com/Radan2400/PC/160%20Baud%20ALDL%20Hardware%20Interface.htm

Instructions for modifying a 1227747 to use a flash chip: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?172-7747-Flash-Chip-Conversion-(27SF512)

Brian ,

Have you used the off brand EEproms ? I tried a pack of 20 (I think) a while ago , only 1 or 2 out of the whole pack were good , went back to using genuine SST's from then on .

Just wondering if they have changed .

Thanks

TOM
09-27-2016
89S10_Project

Thanks for the intel, Brian. I will compare the price of standing up a system with those components (and real SST chips- can anyone provide a link?) versus the ready-made system and see what I can come up with.

I'm an IT guy so I have a decent background in the theory, if not the application. I think at the very worst, this might get me startedf inexpensively so I can get a few idsues resolved in my truck and implement the ECM upgrade soonest.
09-27-2016
sturgillbd

Actually I have used several of them. I have one in my Willys jeep right now and two more in some friends' rides. I bought 20 of them and have had no problems. The difference between the Winbond and SST chips seems to be the erase voltage. I can program the fakes with a Burn 2 but have to erase with my Willem. Seems like the SST is 12V and the Winbond is 14v. I just use my Willem programmer to program/erase them and have no issues. I actually tested the first batch of them by burning a bin to each chip and then went back and did a read and compare. Everything worked great. What programmer do you use Tom?

Brian
09-27-2016
sturgillbd

1 Attachment(s)

Screenshot of the Winbond datasheet.
09-28-2016
Nasty-Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by sturgillbd

Actually I have used several of them. I have one in my Willys jeep right now and two more in some friends' rides. I bought 20 of them and have had no problems. The difference between the Winbond and SST chips seems to be the erase voltage. I can program the fakes with a Burn 2 but have to erase with my Willem. Seems like the SST is 12V and the Winbond is 14v. I just use my Willem programmer to program/erase them and have no issues. I actually tested the first batch of them by burning a bin to each chip and then went back and did a read and compare. Everything worked great. What programmer do you use Tom?

Brian

APU1

Guess I'll give them another shot .

Thanks Brian , hope all is well .

TOM
10-14-2016
89S10_Project

Brian-

Thanks again for the links to the equipment. I'm ordering a batch this evening, then I intend to learn how to use it and patch my chip so I can get real data for spark advance and injector util.