Engine Dyno ? Fast 102 Intake MAF and 36 lb injectors

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11-16-2013
EagleMark

4 Attachment(s)

Engine Dyno ? Fast 102 Intake MAF and 36 lb injectors

Anyone done some bolt on Fast products?

Engine is 2002 Camaro 5.7L LS1b 0411 PCM 12212156 OS and engine internals are stock.

To dress it up for the hot rod they installed a Fast 102 mm Intake
Attachment 5808

and MAF
Attachment 5809

Waiting for Injector spec sheet to go with the 36 lb injectors.
Attachment 5810

I've never liked these but it has a set of MSD coils as well.
Attachment 5811

With injector data should simplify things. I'm sure the 102 MM MAF is going to be the hard end to tune. Wondering how much effect the Intake is going to effect VE.

Tuning will be done on load baring engine dyno so I'll be warm and dry on this one! :thumbsup:
11-16-2013
delcowizzid

102mm throttlebody not MAF you on crack today LOL
11-16-2013
EagleMark

Crack may help!

I only looked at thew motor for a minute and swore the MAF was same size at TB and then tapered down to a screen? I'll get some pictures tomorrow, owner is trying to find paperwork as the project has been collecting for years.

I have the Painless PCM that was set up for this... it's a stock 2002 Camaro calibration with emissions turned off...
11-16-2013
mecanicman

I have done the lingenfelter and powermaf in an fbody. The base data for both is way off when installed in a fbody style air intake. I think I still have the firebird lingenfelter maf 440ci with 42# green tops tune. Post up your maf when you figure it out and Ill share if it helps.
11-16-2013
EagleMark

Accurate data should be a better place to start the tune. But all the ones I've done were not perfect by any means to start.

This is a week or so off so I've got plenty of time.

Wondering if I'd be better off swapping in a manual trans segment to run engine on engine dyno then trying to turn off all 4l60E DTCs?
11-17-2013
dave w

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleMark

Accurate data should be a better place to start the tune. But all the ones I've done were not perfect by any means to start.

This is a week or so off so I've got plenty of time.

Wondering if I'd be better off swapping in a manual trans segment to run engine on engine dyno then trying to turn off all 4l60E DTCs?

I think I would leave the Auto Trans parameters in the Flash. I think I would raise the Abuse Mode Enable RPM's or ZERO out the Abuse Mode Disable Speed to eliminate the need for a VSS input while the engine is on the Dyno. After the Dyno, I would return the Abuse Mode setting back to normal. I've only changed the Abuse Mode settings for engines I've set up and ran on an engine stand. Maybe your engine will be in the vehicle, on a chassis dyno? In either case, I'm thinking that eliminating the need for a VSS would be a good plan?

dave w
11-17-2013
EagleMark

I forgot about the Abuse mode to disable VSS... this may be the trick. Engine is on Engine Dyno, no vehicle or chassis... seperate room for engine and controls.
11-17-2013
dave w

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleMark

I forgot about the Abuse mode to disable VSS... this may be the trick. Engine is on Engine Dyno, no vehicle or chassis... seperate room for engine and controls.

Found this information on the EFI Live forum.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....arness...got-a

Seems like maybe the Park / Neutral parameter needs adjusting also.

dave w
11-17-2013
mecanicman

I do standalones a lot. Using a an auto tune is not an issue at all. But I do recommend having a speed sensor input of some sort. I can post up the ones I use if you need them, fit any transmission with a speedo cable output. If you dont use them some idle and timing tables are not referanced. With a speed sensor stand alone harness on auto tune you end up increasing running airflow more than normal to keep it from stalling, but beyond that it runs great.
11-17-2013
dave w

Quote:

Originally Posted by mecanicman

I can post up the ones (speed sensor) I use if you need them, fit any transmission with a speedo cable output.

I would greatly appreciate the speed sensor information!:thumbsup:

dave w
11-17-2013
EagleMark

Not sure how I can get VSS with no transmission on an engine dyno?
11-17-2013
dave w

3 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleMark

Not sure how I can get VSS with no transmission on an engine dyno?

Something like the 40 tooth per drive shaft revolution VSS pictured below, but mounted to the harmonic balancer. I'm thinking it would be 1:1 final drive ratio? Maybe it would be Transmission Input Speed Sensor (TISS) if mounted to the harmonic balancer?

dave w
11-17-2013
mecanicman

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleMark

Not sure how I can get VSS with no transmission on an engine dyno?

Without the speed signal you will run off of the idle timing table. Beyond that for the dyno it will be fine. You just have to transfer the timing table to high octane later. If it does not get a speed sensor, it will never run off of high/low octane tables.
11-17-2013
mecanicman

I use the dakota digital sensor from summit racing, SEN-01-4160, its a 8000 pulse/mile , or 8 pulse/rev. This sensor is cheapest I have found anywhere at $39.00 from summit.
11-17-2013
mecanicman

Guess I should clarify, my comments are more meant for making it run in the vehicle. For the dyno it will be fine without speed signal as long as you realize its not using the high/low timing tables. Having the speed signal allows the pcm to switch modes from idle to moving. It can be made to run without speed signal, but I much prefer having one.
11-17-2013
EagleMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by mecanicman

I use the dakota digital sensor from summit racing, SEN-01-4160, its a 8000 pulse/mile , or 8 pulse/rev. This sensor is cheapest I have found anywhere at $39.00 from summit.

Thanks! I need a cheap VSS for the kids Toyota 22RE now on GM ECM and DIS! :thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mecanicman

Without the speed signal you will run off of the idle timing table. Beyond that for the dyno it will be fine. You just have to transfer the timing table to high octane later. If it does not get a speed sensor, it will never run off of high/low octane tables.

Since it will be run under load I'm thinking I should build a Park/Neutral spark advance table based on high octane table? They do have race fuel at dyno but car will be run on street 93 non ethenol fuel.
11-17-2013
mecanicman

I typically make them all the same anyway. With cammed vehicles they dont like jumping from idle park to idle gear to high octane moving tables with different values. You just lose resolution running the idle spark tables.
11-17-2013
EagleMark

But that is the only place the spark will be for now and no VSS.

Just found out the motor is a 2004 LS1 from GTO, not a 2002 Camaro.

MAF is 100mm MAF with a GM part no of 15864791 from a 2006 and up Z06 Corvette.

Wonder if one of these electronic builders around here could put together a VSS signal generator like they use on test bench to work as a signal?
11-17-2013
mecanicman

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleMark

But that is the only place the spark will be for now and no VSS.

Just found out the motor is a 2004 LS1 from GTO, not a 2002 Camaro.

MAF is 100mm MAF with a GM part no of 15864791 from a 2006 and up Z06 Corvette.

Wonder if one of these electronic builders around here could put together a VSS signal generator like they use on test bench to work as a signal?

Thats the ls7 card maf, you can put it any size tube you want. You will have to build the table for it cause its all custom and flows different in every setup. Just start with gto maf table and figure out the average percentage error for an area and multiply the entire table.

For your purposes on the dyno, I dont know if I would worry about generator. I dont believe it will hold you back any.
11-17-2013
RobertISaar

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleMark

Wonder if one of these electronic builders around here could put together a VSS signal generator like they use on test bench to work as a signal?

super simple to make a 555 circuit emulate a magnetic VSS. resolution of the potentiometer is kind of iffy at higher speeds though. one tap can send you from 40 to 80MPH.

i have most, if not all of the parts to make the 4046 VCO version for i think 6 different signals, but no functioning iron at the moment.
11-17-2013
gregs78cam

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleMark

Wonder if one of these electronic builders around here could put together a VSS signal generator like they use on test bench to work as a signal?

I do actually have one proto'd on a chunck of board. It can simulate both engine rpm, and speedo mph, seperately using two potentiometers. I know it worked for the '7427 that I tested it with, I would guess OBDII would understand it as well? You want me to bring it by sometime?
11-17-2013
EagleMark

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertISaar

super simple to make a 555 circuit emulate a magnetic VSS. resolution of the potentiometer is kind of iffy at higher speeds though. one tap can send you from 40 to 80MPH.

i have most, if not all of the parts to make the 4046 VCO version for i think 6 different signals, but no functioning iron at the moment.

Soldering iron? Seriously? If I buy you one and parts would you make me one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregs78cam

I do actually have one proto'd on a chunck of board. It can simulate both engine rpm, and speedo mph, seperately using two potentiometers. I know it worked for the '7427 that I tested it with, I would guess OBDII would understand it as well? You want me to bring it by sometime?

Yes if your not using it. I may end up trying it. We will have the dyno room for a week with this engine, mostly for them adding to dyno room for EFI engines.

If your off one day that week come by?
11-17-2013
RobertISaar

i'm a heavy user/abuser of soldering equipment..... it happens. a lot. i should probably stockpile them to be honest. i actually have a bunch of 50Hz preset generators laying around, though i'm not sure what kind of speed that would translate to.
11-17-2013
EagleMark

I'd say look for an old Hako, just searched mine and found this review and would concur!
http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2010/11...-of-your-hand/
11-17-2013
dave w

I use Metcal Soldering Equipment, an older version of the MX500S Station. http://www.metcalsolderingstation.net/ It's nearly instant on to 810 F degrees soldering temperature!

dave w
11-18-2013
gregs78cam

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleMark

Yes if your not using it. I may end up trying it. We will have the dyno room for a week with this engine, mostly for them adding to dyno room for EFI engines.

If your off one day that week come by?

I'll see if I can get it to you this week. How far out is this project? If I have time to make it, I will sure try.
11-18-2013
EagleMark

Probably not this week. He has three engines to do and clear the plate for this project and EFI upgrade to dyno room.
11-19-2013
EagleMark

2 Attachment(s)

Identified the MAF today as 2008 Corvette card type in a aluminum housing with the honeycomb screen already installed!

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