First Data Upload and New to the Forum

Hello all....

Attached is data from a run on my 1978 FJ55 Land Cruiser [4 Door Wagon] I just finished restoring this summer. The engine is new/OH and bone stock except for the Cam..I knew I should not have gone anything but stock but I did. Cam Specs @ .050 INTake 211////Exhaust 211 also.

Also, have headers-6 into one 3 in collector---2 inch exhaust. The exhaust was new so I did not change it out or the pipe to 3 inch. The TBI came out of a 1992 Astrovan, 4300 6cyl engine.

I have the GM TBI system with all sensors installed including--a VSS and Knock sensor, DUI HEI connected to the ESC, NO EGR. Timing set to Zero.

I have another identical setup on another 1978 FJ40 Land Cruiser [Bob Tail] I did around 6 years ago and it runs GREAT! Love the TBI!

This one is running VERY VERY Rich....as you can tell. I m using the same .Bin as the Bob Tail and aside from the Cam and Exhaust Pipe size all Same-Same....The bin came from a member on one of the other sites I visited then and he was a small business man selling TBI Setups at the time.

I hope I m not using the wrong method of presenting this to the group and if I am, my apologies. Any help or advise would be Greatly Appreciated!

I'm not sure what to think about the ASYNC being on during the entire data log?

I think I would lower the BPW 3 ~ 5 and see what happens.

dave w

Thanks for the reply and jumping in here....

I found this on another thread about the Async referring to GM s---"Most are Async fuel and during Async the BLM Learn is disabled, even in Closed Loop". Is this what you are referring to? I m not sure what it means but I ll do some more reading.

As for BPW its back to the search function...

Async fueling is the devil and almost every V6 in the 7747 era ECM is this way. It really sucks for good idle in these Land Cruiser and Jeep I6 long runner intake designs. I've never ever not once been happy with a perfect Async bin tune!

Just start with a ASDU V8 Auto bin and change it to six cylinder and tune!

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Originally Posted by HvyJet

As for BPW its back to the search function...

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BPW ~ Base Pulse Width

According to the BPW Math Calculator, the 4.3 liter V6 has a BPW close to 185 with 45 lb injectors.

dave w

This is a stock Toyota 2F straight 6-256 engine. The bin works great in my other Landy with only differences mentioned above....exhaust size and cam. Would either of these cause this rich running issue that I am having? Or based on your knowledge and reading the data dump is there something else amiss here?

Dave
I dont understand BPW...is there a FAQ or something else I could read to be able to apply this to my situation? And again why bring it up? What did you see in my Data dump that leads you down this trail? I have read hours of other threads from O P and this is the first time I have heard BPW.

Update....
I viewed my data info and found the BPW categories and its really a lot to understand at this point. Thanks for any light you can shed on this or link me to more instructional info.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

Async fueling is the devil and almost every V6 in the 7747 era ECM is this way. It really sucks for good idle in these Land Cruiser and Jeep I6 long runner intake designs. I've never ever not once been happy with a perfect Async bin tune!

Just start with a ASDU V8 Auto bin and change it to six cylinder and tune!

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My other Landy idles GREAT with this bin......the only differences in the two vehicle setups are the cam and the exhaust size. Beside that every part is identical down to the air cleaner.

I can watch the data while the heated O2 sensors heats up and when it reaches the closed loop value the INT starts to decline along with the BLM s and it runs Rich....until closed loop it runs steady and a 128 BLM...I know its the PROM then in closed loop its the sensors.

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the only differences in the two vehicle setups are the cam

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Kind of like saying "both the trucks are the same, the only difference is one has 44" tires." A small difference in name, but a large difference in practice. The cam affects airflow and therefore vacuum. The computer measures vacuum to determine how much fuel to deliver. Different vacuum readings equal different fuel delivery.

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I have another identical setup on another 1978 FJ40 Land Cruiser [Bob Tail] I did around 6 years ago and it runs GREAT!

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Ahhh... but not really identical. Sounds like you might need to make some changes to your calibration.

Usually a cam change from stock lowers vacuum at idle. For the Fueling VE table it means less fuel at idle and because of more cam... more fuel mid and upper RPM. There's also a lot that can be done to spark curve.

Open loop will usually run 128 BLM until CL feedback, problem with yours is it is maxed out rich = taking away fuel. 108 is max.

Bottom line is the cam change is going to need a chip change to run correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HvyJet

Dave
I dont understand BPW...is there a FAQ or something else I could read to be able to apply this to my situation? And again why bring it up? What did you see in my Data dump that leads you down this trail? I have read hours of other threads from O P and this is the first time I have heard BPW.

Update....
I viewed my data info and found the BPW categories and its really a lot to understand at this point. Thanks for any light you can shed on this or link me to more instructional info.

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HvyJet,
I'm thinking you have not re-programmed a PROM chip before? I jumped into this thread thinking you needed help with re-programming / tuning a chip? I went off thinking you had the ability to burn chips, but needed help understanding / analyzing the information from the data log?

One option you could try, without needing to re-program a chip, is lower the fuel pressure. The posted data log shows the Base Fueling programmed (aka BPW) in the chip is rich, so lowering the fuel pressure will help compensate the overall rich running condition seen in the posted data log. Changing the BPW to a lower number will have the affect as lowering the fuel pressure.

dave w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

Usually a cam change from stock lowers vacuum at idle. For the Fueling VE table it means less fuel at idle and because of more cam... more fuel mid and upper RPM. There's also a lot that can be done to spark curve.

Open loop will usually run 128 BLM until CL feedback, problem with yours is it is maxed out rich = taking away fuel. 108 is max.

Bottom line is the cam change is going to need a chip change to run correctly.

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I kinda figured that I would need to thats how I ended up here!....based on looking at the data what should be changed first?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave w

HvyJet,
I'm thinking you have not re-programmed a PROM chip before? I jumped into this thread thinking you needed help with re-programming / tuning a chip? I went off thinking you had the ability to burn chips, but needed help understanding / analyzing the information from the data log?

One option you could try, without needing to re-program a chip, is lower the fuel pressure. The posted data log shows the Base Fueling programmed (aka BPW) in the chip is rich, so lowering the fuel pressure will help compensate the overall rich running condition seen in the posted data log. Changing the BPW to a lower number will have the affect as lowering the fuel pressure.

dave w

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Correct, as I stated in my O P the bin came from another person who burned chips for a living. Now I was hoping by posting here with my data someone could identify the problem as a sensor or worse case a program change to the bin that I could change myself with some help from you guys. I have never done it before but decided it was something I wanted to learn doing and was looking for some help or guidance from this board.

There could be something other than the .bin causing the rich condition. I didn't see anything in the data log that pointed to a sensor (TPS, O2, or MAP) as being suspect faulty or a cause for running rich. Maybe one of the injectors is not working correctly to cause the rich condition? I don't think there is a 100% way of knowing, from a data log, that an injector is bad.

Here are few what if's that I'm thinking might help:
Swap the computer chip between the FJ40 / FJ55 and see what happens?
Data log both vehicles with each chip? (I'm thinking the FJ55 should show good data logs with both chips?)

dave w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HvyJet

I kinda figured that I would need to thats how I ended up here!....based on looking at the data what should be changed first?

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I know you say the original runs good and idles good... but if you want it better and now your learning to tune then I'lll still stand by this quote from above:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

Async fueling is the devil and almost every V6 in the 7747 era ECM is this way. It really sucks for good idle in these Land Cruiser and Jeep I6 long runner intake designs. I've never ever not once been happy with a perfect Async bin tune!

Just start with a ASDU V8 Auto bin and change it to six cylinder and tune!

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I have done many, and I do man many conversions and inline six cylinder engines and starting with a good Sync fueling bin ALWAYS ends up with a better running engine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HvyJet

Correct, as I stated in my O P the bin came from another person who burned chips for a living. Now I was hoping by posting here with my data someone could identify the problem as a sensor or worse case a program change to the bin that I could change myself with some help from you guys. I have never done it before but decided it was something I wanted to learn doing and was looking for some help or guidance from this board.

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We always try to help people learn and catch up. It also helps us learn more to improve. But the real goal is for you to learn and then pay it forward and be part of the community! :thumbsup:

Now you say the chip came from someone who burned chips for a living. Your results seem to be good and your happy! But we get a lot of people here who are not happy and the chips were never right in the first place. Doing it yourself is so much better if you have time and patience! This is not a click here fixes everything, there is no easy button. If you have the desire and some time each day you will constantly learn and improve. I still do!

Back to your happy chip! Learn to use the Compare feature of TunerPro RT, open the new ASDU bin file or whatever you will start with. Load the compare chip. Find the spark advance table and compare? You'll probably see a big difference because your hired tuner had a proper spark advance table or even preformance spark table for that engine!

Change cylinders to 6.

Apply the BPW and Spark Advance Hack to the new bin. Now you can see spark advance and BPW which more importantly can be converted to Injector Duty Cycle to see if your running out of fuel at WOT high RPM situations!

If your engine does not have EGR? Apply the EGR Disable patch.

Apply the Highway Lean Cruise and ESC done patch. Then disable Lean Cruise by rasing the temp to unobtainable. We do not want lean cruise at this time! But we do want to get rid of the Forced Knock ESC test!

In the Data Logging Off folder that should leave you with just turning off AIR #4, PE #6 and DFCO #7 to turn off for now. Now you should be ready to data log properly to do your Fueling VE tables.

Here's a couple links to help you do that and understand the hows and whys!
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...E2-Fuel-Tables
and
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-data-Tutorial!

There was one other issue I saw in your data log, TPS voltage low? Clear codes but this may be failing the test because at idle your TPS voltage was .47, it should be at least .54. Now what else I saw at idle was TPS volate .47 and IAC counts in the 50-60 range? For not just turn the throttle blade min air screw in 1/4 turn and for get it. It does not set idle. It only sets minimum air, the less IAC counts you have means there is more air moving over throttle blades mixing with the fuel from injectors above throttle blades. This makes for a much better idle! Now at end of your data log runs always let the engine idle in gear if auto for a minute and in park/neutral for a minute ad it will give you an idea where you are. This is the only time you should use IAC counts data as a tuning tool!

Clear codes and make sure none are set before logging data. Always start tuning data with engine warmed up and even driven a little. This helps dry up the went intake manifold so you start with good data!

Happy Tuning! :rockon:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave w

There could be something other than the .bin causing the rich condition. I didn't see anything in the data log that pointed to a sensor (TPS, O2, or MAP) as being suspect faulty or a cause for running rich. Maybe one of the injectors is not working correctly to cause the rich condition? I don't think there is a 100% way of knowing, from a data log, that an injector is bad.

Here are few what if's that I'm thinking might help:
Swap the computer chip between the FJ40 / FJ55 and see what happens?
Data log both vehicles with each chip? (I'm thinking the FJ55 should show good data logs with both chips?)

dave w

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Good ideas!

But I think the rich is from the cam. As RPM increase in log BLM are better, pretty common cam change data log.

It's always a good idea to have injectors serviced before tuning! I always have them done and see as little as 3% to as much as 12% difference, the worst ones are 35 on one side and 12% on the other!
\http://www.mrinjector.us/

Thanks for all the input there EagleMark.

The bin that I have in Landy 1 seems to work well compared to what I was initially using, and up to now building Landy 2. I was not all that interested in learning more about tuning. When I first had that spark of enthusiasm and drive I could not find a good forum of folks to learn with. The half dozen other sites seem to be graduate level tuning with the associated vertical learning curve that did not appear to flatten out for new guys. I have read hours and hours of posts from guys like me starting out bright eyed and eager then just disappear from the thread with no conclusion from what I could tell. Now dont get me wrong, there are success stories too. Lets be positive!

Good point made by EM was bins burned by others are not necessarily optimum and now that I have been enlightened I bet Landy 1 could use some attention also. It will have to wait until I gain the knowledge to clean up Landy 2 first. However, first chance I have I plan to data log a couple drives on Landy 1 to read and compare the two, plus see if anything jumps out. I m sure at some point I will begin to see the differences, I hope.

Meanwhile, I have tagged up with DaveW and for the first time feel confident that I will move forward and become successful learning this black magic procedure and be able to offer my two cents to the next guy when he throws out his problem to the group.

I will go through each point made by EM and get up to speed there with MORE reading and head bruising and try and formulate good questions for the group and DaveW.

Thanks again and all input appreciated......