Wifes car,almost completed L67 build/swap -56k run away.

http://www.3800pro.com/forum/fwd-380...ce-04-l36.html

I had a long post with all the mods etc. written out but i'll have to update later,when I change tabs on ipad it wipes out the post I wrote on other tab-arrggh
It was a long ordeal that had me swapping engines/transmissions in/out but finally almost done.
Basically built an L67 and learned ceramic coating,powder coatings as well as alot of build/maching stuff from a buddy.

Most everything is stock (not necessarily from L67 though) but altered/lightened or ceramic/thermal coated.

Stainless headers and modded SC haven't made it onto car yet-using stock SC (no mods) and manifolds (egr welded).
Cam is stock as well,IF I upgrade later plans were only for some rockers so I didn't take it too far (that ship has sailed and sunk already though)

Here's some pics,the thread above is a long one but if your interested than I used it as a reminder of where I was at going back and forth.
I'll update when I get a chance,wanted to get it posted up though in case I need some help I won't need to do a long explanation.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/20b408bb.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/d0bcfe31.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...ouseImpala.jpg
Original L36 3800NA (head gasket blew)
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/608084e8.jpg

First L67 3800sc
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/74ae1844.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/a8a6d1ae.jpg

Trans rebuild-100 miles later
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/f736fe40.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/28657920.jpg

Making stuff pretty and functional
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/8df4ee18.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...y/6f073a91.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...y/89d1b002.jpg

Gettin started
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...3DCFD0E42D.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...4C0EE8348C.jpg

All hand polished,ceramic/thermal or powdercoated (not all parts this engine)
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...4C21E54A88.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...315140932B.jpg

Almost complete
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps00cbf4c1.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps80cddda3.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...psbd205bae.jpg

I wasn't clear so..
Right now the gold engine is in the car minus the supercharger.
Only have a few miles on it,need to get a tag and hopefully have time today.
No pics of the other stock L67 I put in (three total,2 blew rods).
Gold engine also has NA/L36 pistons/rods so compression is now 9.4:1 with chamber mods I did.

Well so far it has been going great.
Ended up yanking the intake to do some lifter work,might need to yank a valve cover to check a rocker as well again.
Otherwise it's running great.

Only issues i've had with tuning so far is the gear ratio.
These have zero logic to them that I can find,I finally just resorted to trial and error. I'm at 1.02 in 3rd gear now,just need to make another quick change and should have it.

Been logging for VE,started to do the changes manually since I can't get a spreadsheet to work yet.
The MAF will need a bit of tuning as well,the TB has been smoothed,polished and thermal coated and I altered the cross-section where the MAF resides so the calibration is no longer true.

I also need to make a wall to block the hot engine heat from the intake so it pulls from the fender.
My intake temps are pretty high (140+) so that is on the top of list.

is that 140 before or after the blower? i do't remember where the temp sensor is on a L67.

Before...
It is in the rubber elbow a few inches from the TB.

Latest Log (SD/MAF unplugged)

Only seeing a couple degree of knock retard here and there,nothing horrible.
The 140 is driving me crazy,especially since I could drop it even more if she would let me vent/louver the hood.
The thermal coatings raise the efficiency of transfer,so air movement over it would help alot.
I suspect the intake air is actually cooler than the reading,I really want to relocate the temp sensor.

woof. getting into boost, the intake temps would be beyond hot enough to boil water. at least your fuel will be quite vaporized.

I can't see the true intake temps being 140 degrees. I'd try relocating the IAT sensor farther away from the engine too. I read a little into the build and was pretty interested, but never got time to read all of it. If you are only getting a little KR on that car then you're doing good and that is another indicator that the true intake temps are lower than 140. I'm in a hurry at the moment so I don't know if I could be of any help with the excel spreadsheets or not but I did have a few questions for you though. The ceramic coatings you used, were they cerakote brand and how easy do they spray ? I looked into the cerakote coatings and they seemed awful easy to apply. I was also curious as to why or how you blew up a couple engines too ? They are normally pretty tough unless you get coolant contamination in the oil.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pmkls1

The ceramic coatings you used, were they cerakote brand and how easy do they spray ?

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I used Techline coatings,I've seen some of the Cera-Kote stuff but it's only for gun stuff that i've seen it used.
The coatings weren't hard to spray,Moly and thermal stuff laid down nicely-The ceramic based was finicky but not bad-The piston/CC stuff I screwed up at least once on everything I sprayed. It was the worst,but could also have easily been me since I don't do much spraying at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pmkls1

I was also curious as to why or how you blew up a couple engines too ? They are normally pretty tough unless you get coolant contamination in the oil.

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The original engine just blew a head gasket,noticed during annual coolant flush.

The 1st L67 I dropped in spun a rod bearing,I have several theories why but i'm chalking it up to the salvage yard telling me 58k and after going thru it thinking more like 158k.

The 2nd L67 I haven't a clue,I've yet to tear it down to verify exactly what went wrong where,but i'm positive i've spun a bearing. This engine had 34k miles and I believe it from how clean everything was.

On every engine I drop in it gets new fluids for first start and after a few minutes of run time it gets changed and flushed out again. (Cooling system gets straight water)
Then I will generally drive for a few hours and change the filter yet again and reflush cooling system and refill with coolant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Playtoy_18

I used Techline coatings,I've seen some of the Cera-Kote stuff but it's only for gun stuff that i've seen it used.
The coatings weren't hard to spray,Moly and thermal stuff laid down nicely-The ceramic based was finicky but not bad-The piston/CC stuff I screwed up at least once on everything I sprayed. It was the worst,but could also have easily been me since I don't do much spraying at all.

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Cerakote actually does make a separate line of coatings geared towards the auto industry and they have a separate website for it. The site for the thermal/ceramic coatings is http://www.cerakotehightemp.com/ . They have moly and also multiple different ceramic/thermal coatings similar to the techline stuff you used. The only major drawback to the cerakote stuff that I know of is the serious pricetag it carries. I haven't looked into the techline stuff yet, but I will as I was curious about using some coatings on a couple projects.

Pulled the car into shop the other night to do something about the intake temps.
Got one of my templates cut out/fitted,just need to finish the top/lid and tack the mounts to it,attach pcm tray and extend the IAT wiring.
Gonna try to finish it up tonight,looking for the right size elbows since i'm using 4".
Would like to get rid of the stock rubber i'm using altogether.

140 degree intake temps are not surprising.

Before I put the intercooler on my car, at times I would see 180* intake temps, at higher boost levels.

Moving the IAT away from the intake only pleases the person watching the laptop screen, but does not to help the car run properly. I'm a fan of IAT sensors as close to the intake valve as possible to get true intake air temp readings.

and... you can get 180 IAT at idle if you sit long enough...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

140 degree intake temps are not surprising.

Before I put the intercooler on my car, at times I would see 180* intake temps, at higher boost levels.

Moving the IAT away from the intake only pleases the person watching the laptop screen, but does not to help the car run properly. I'm a fan of IAT sensors as close to the intake valve as possible to get true intake air temp readings.

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His IAT readings are taken BEFORE the supercharger not after. In this particular car, heat from the exhaust crossover pipe can radiate up into the rubber elbow that houses the IAT sensor causing the sensor to heat up and read high. However, even though the elbow and sensor are hot, it doesn't mean that the air flowing through is as hot.

If it's an open element IAT, then yes the air IS that hot.

The open element sensors respond VERY quickly to air temp changes. I've witnessed on my car changing almost instantly from a warm temp (closed throttle cruise) to near ambient within a second of opening the throttle, on a cool night when the intercooler is quite effective. Less of a change, but still as quick on hot days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pmkls1

His IAT readings are taken BEFORE the supercharger not after. In this particular car, heat from the exhaust crossover pipe can radiate up into the rubber elbow that houses the IAT sensor causing the sensor to heat up and read high. However, even though the elbow and sensor are hot, it doesn't mean that the air flowing through is as hot.

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That's it right thurr.
it is getting heatsoaked and not reading true temps,i'll post a pic up.
In the future I will likely swap to the TBI charge sensor which is brass and mount in the lower intake.

I have been meaning to put a ktype in it and making sure of temp readings.
I'm honestly not sure what the heck it is doing,I suspect it is reading wayy off though.

Just remember that if you install a MAT sensor, the readings will be higher because you will be seeing the boosted air temps. The readings will be true to what the temps are, but the algorithm in the PCM is expecting to see the incoming air temps which will naturally be lower. I would assume that the readings may affect both MAF sensor calibration and ignition timing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Playtoy_18

That's it right thurr.
it is getting heatsoaked and not reading true temps,i'll post a pic up.
In the future I will likely swap to the TBI charge sensor which is brass and mount in the lower intake.

I have been meaning to put a ktype in it and making sure of temp readings.
I'm honestly not sure what the heck it is doing,I suspect it is reading wayy off though.

---

Why would you go to a closed element style, those sensors DO get heat soaked and not show true air temp. Unless you just mean the MAT sensor that uses a brass thread. There were more than just TBI applications that used them.

I don't care if you believe me or not, but the open element type does NOT get heat soaked, at least not to the same extent that the closed element style does. If you're reading 140* from the open element sensor, that is your true air temp. The piping that the air is passing through is heat soaked which then transfers the heat to the passing air. I have the same thing in my car, where the intake manifold is mounted above the exhaust manifold, so the intake manifold itself gets heat soaked, this heats up the air passing through it. Opening the throttle to a large degree brings in cooler air.

I haven't a clue honestly,I know i'm getting hot air because of the intake tube on it and the fact that the filter is in the engine bay.

my thoughts on the IAT come from threads i've been finding like this
http://www.grandprixforums.net/your-...here-2707.html
(I haven't fully read all of them ,just perused thru)
I haven't a clue what is actually happening,i've just seen enough conjecture that I was curious so figured I would rig up and test for myself.

I will admit that I was going to relocate before testing however.
But now I will likely do some testing before I actually relocate the sensor to see the sensitivity and get actual temp data from the intake tube inner/outer as well as a probe in the lower manifold and also ambient.
I should have enough tools around to check all at once as well,though not on the same log.

Any suggestions on testing structure?
I've got the factory sensors to use,as well as a multimeter with a thermocouple attachment,and infared temp gun as well as a couple spare pcms/scantools/sensors I can hook up quick enough to use for temp sensor pids for testing only.

Car is in my insulated shop so that is as controlled of an environment as I can get.


Also,on the lower intake sensor install,it is not something I plan to do for sure.
I planned to do some more readin' and figurin' and based on my testing decide if I should go to the trouble on her car.
Even then wait until I take the blower off for some reason before I do it.

I appreciate the advice guy's,between all of us we'll get r'figured.

*Here in a few when i'm on computer I will post a log,nice to have info from it as well i'm sure.
This is the first and last log of last 30m drive.

Old setup.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps4fa56028.jpg

New and improved-ish. (still need to make a top for it,and looking for suitable material to trash the elbow.)
The wall/barrier goes all the way to the bottom and is cut to the front contour as well. The weatherstrip at top just barely doesn't touch the hood. Should be getting plenty of fresh air.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...psfdad65e2.jpg

Here is a quick log with this setup,it still steadily rose till I had to get back home.
Pulled up to shop and left key on,popped hood and pulled out sensor from elbow. (118*)
Blew on it hard for a few seconds and checked and it only went down a couple degrees,did it twice more for a little longer/harder and rechecked and it got down as far as 108*.
Left hood up,about to take another drive and see how high it will go this time.
Key on temp at beginning of log shows 75* ambient which seems about right.

Infared temps were high on the components as well,starting about 180* and going down as I move along the tube. IAT body was 160* but elbow started around 140 and cooled to about 120* where it enters the "barrier".
Barrier itself was about 111* as well as the tube also around 108*.
My multimeter with thermocouple has crapped on me so no secondary reading inside the intake tube itself yet.
Gonna try to get some more data,need to look over the log as well since I think I saw some high trims that looked odd.

Might need to have a buddy help listen to it and see if mayne I have an exhaust leak.
Might explain trims that I thought were in line now and the excessive heat from both IAT's and coolant temp (running a 180 stat with fans programmed as well,shouldn't be steady at 208).
if I have a crossover leak it would hit almost directly on the ECT and IAT both.
I can't hear well enough for those small ticks like that sometimes.

The coolant temps staying around 208 is a little bit concerning, but does kind of make sense. You are running nearly a point higher on compression than a standard L67. Then, there is the fact that the engine is supercharged. You also most likely have elevated inlet air temps. Couple that with the fact that you are running a radiator that is really just barely adequate for a N/A 3800 (I'm assuming) and chances are that the cooling system is maxed out.

That brings up an excellent point I haven't thought of actually.
Checking the part numbers for radiators they are listed as the same (chain store) as well as the other cooling system components. (Radiator is fairly new and has been flushed several times).

However,the heads/intake are thermally coated internally to keep heat in and externally to promote transfer.
So besides the higher compression,due to the external coatings (and a possible exhaust leak) the underhood temps are higher and the internal coatings keep the heat in the engine.

Right now it is parked while I finish installing motor in my little sister's car.
When it's done my plans are to install the headers and figure out a way to let heat escape from underhood.
Stock manifolds are killing power output i'm positive,as well as contributing to the underhood heat.
I planned to use some TGP louvers,but she doesn't want any hood scoops or anything so I will need to get creative.
Also be thinking on the radiators heat load and how to tweak that.

Idea's welcome.

Ceramic coated headers will keep the heat going out exhaust and not underhood.

The headers are the only part that have not been coated yet.
They are halfway thru sandblasting,just sent someone to pick up my new unloader valve for compressor.
Just need to finish the Geo then I have two sets of headers to coat,one for me and one for a buddy.

So they will be coated inside and out when they get installed and that should help quite a bit.

First time I used a set of Headman Elite ceramic coated headers and knew the vehicle before and after? I was amazed at how much heat they keep out of engine bay. Long tube headers would stay closed loop idle even in winter with one wire O2 sensor, didn't do that before...

You should see what happens with coated headers and turbines on turbocharged stuff.
Keeps the heat in the pipe for increased expansion which means more exhaust velocity.
Lowers lag times,spools faster etc..
Controlled mileage testing on the big semi's showed a big increase in MPG as well which is no small feat.

I think on boosted applications the number for power is 10% over uncoated with turbo.
Nothing but good things about header coatings.
Some have mentioned pipes rusting from inside out,but that is because you want a coating on the inside as well or the excess retained heat just kills the metal.
I use one product on the inside and one on the outside. The I.D. Coating is the same stuff that is on the exhaust runners in the cylinder head.

So it's pretty,gains power and lowers underhood heat.
I should just post a signup list. :)

From what I can tell the N/A and supercharged applications do use the same radiator. But, the radiator is really pretty dinky even for a N/A L36. The core thickness is something like 5/8". That's pretty sorry if you ask me. But, I haven't heard much about radiator upgrades for W-bodys though.

Headers that are coated on the outside only won't last long. The heat does affect the metal and there's nothing to protect the metal from moisture and the acids in the exhaust. A lot of people don't realize that water is a byproduct of the combustion process and that is why you see steam coming out of the exhaust on cooler days. That's also why you will see water dripping out of the exhaust on vehicles that have not been running very long. Most stock mufflers actually have little drain holes near the bottom to allow any condensed water to drain out in order to slow down the corrosion process. After a cold start you will often see a little puddle under the muffler from all of the water draining out. In my opinion, it is a must to coat the inside of the headers as well as the outside. Not only are you protecting them from rotting from the inside out, but you are keeping the heat in the pipes and out of the metal. I know for sure that cerakote makes a specific coating for inside headers and exhaust pipes and I think that techline does too. Normal coatings work fine on the inside, but the coatings designed for inside pipes actually have better insulating qualities. With those coatings, they actually retain more heat than the coating for the external surfaces. Keeping the heat in the exhaust maintains velocity which is good on all exhaust systems, but it is critical on turbo applications. There are also specific coatings designed for turbo housings too.

As for helping the engine temps in the Impala, I have a couple ideas to help. I would make an additional shield to go between the exhaust crossover pipe and the intake pipe. That would go a long way to insulate the intake charge from excess heat. You could also consider a thermal coating on the intake pipe. I know it sounds gimmicky, but you can also add a coolant additive like water wetter. There are several companies that make additives like that and they do help by lowering the surface tension of the water allowing it to make better contact with the metal in the engine and radiator thus enhancing it's thermal transfer properties. It doesn't make a huge difference, but the average cost is around $15 so the cost is inline with the improvement.

Gotta go for now. I'm in the process of a tranny rebuild on the mother-in-law's 2004 Impala. I just got the tranny out last night and I am about to make a bracket to allow the tranny to be bolted to an engine stand for repairs/overhaul.

not sure if 2nd/3rd gen W-bodies can use them, but the LQ1 radiators are something like 1.125" thick. they're pretty beefy. i imagine the 3rd gen V8 models got something similarly hefty that could probably be used on a 2nd gen.

I just did some looking and found some interesting information. I did some searching on autozone's website for different radiators and looked at specs and part numbers as well as pictures. The first and most important discovery was that I looked up Radiators for Grand Prix, Regals, Impalas, and Monte Carlos in the 2000-2004 year range. The catalog listed a 5/8" radiator for L36 engines and a 1" radiator for L67 engines in the Grand Prix and Regals, but only listed a 5/8" radiator for all of the Impalas and Monte Carlos. The only supercharged Impalas and Monte Carlos were in the 2003-2006 year range IIRC. Now, regardless of whether this is a typo or not it still indicates that the supercharged engines do require a larger radiator which makes perfect sense to me. One odd thing that I did notice with all of the larger radiators was that they had a specific note saying that they would not fit to replace the 5/8" thick core radiators. Now, I do not see how it would be that big of a difference and can't see any major differences in the pictures. I am guessing that there may be some minor modifications needed for either the fans and/or the condenser, but I can't see much more than that being necessary. Another oddity was that all 3 different brands had different part numbers for the radiators. The Buicks and Pontiacs look the same, but the radiator hoses show to be different sizes. The Chevys look the same as the other two and share the same hose size as the Pontiacs but they carry a different part number. All of the radiators that I looked at showed the same hose size except for the Buicks.

I also looked up the radiators for the 3rd gen V8 models and the old LQ1 models. The v8 models are beefier, but they are quite a bit different and would take a bit of work to fit. The radiator hoses are in different locations as well as the trans cooler lines and I think the fans are different. They could be made to fit with enough work, but I don't see it being worth the effort. The LQ1 radiators are a different story, though. They look nearly identical to the Grand Prix 3800 radiators judging by the pics and specs with 1 minor difference that I could tell. The lower radiator hose connection on the passenger side on the Grand Prix 3800 radiators sticks straight out. The same connection on the LQ1 radiator is angled towards the drivers side pretty sharply. Other than that small difference it looks like the LQ1 radiator would drop right in. The only other differences would maybe be the fans and mounting for the condenser. Interesting stuff though.......

Thanks for the info guys,definately save me some time.
I work part time at AZ and know the guy's at both NAPA/Oreilly's here in town as well (I work on their cars alot :) )
So I shouldn't have an issue comparing the different W-body radiators more closely or side by side.
If I need to update then I will definately,and i'm with you guys and thinking it's a no-brainer and I need to.

I did plug the SC/TB coolant ports in the manifold,but I opened up behind the crossover plate as well so there should be plenty of flow.

I have spare sheetmetal as well as plenty of header wrap to wrap it all up if I decide to go that far.
The heat shields are a given though once I get the headers in.

Finally got all the parts/gaskets in tonight for my little sisters geo so hopefully be done with it by tomorrow and get started back on the impala this weekend.

I would definitely like to know what you find after comparing a few different radiators side by side. Having a low cost radiator upgrade available would definitely be nice. Most of the supercharged radiators are just $190-200, which ain't bad considering that most aluminum high performance radiators are $400+. I did a little looking on advance's website last night and found basically the same thing with their listings. The supercharged GP's and Regals list thicker radiator cores than the N/A applications, but the Impalas and Monte Carlos list the same radiator for both applications. I don't understand why the difference, but at least the listings seem consistent.

Gotta get back to welding now. I'm probably making the bracket beefier than needed, but I plan on using it several times so I'd rather it be overkill just to be safe.

IIRC, the N/A 3800 police impalas got the S/C 3800 radiators...

Had a few minutes to check last night.Autozone lists the A2710 rad for both 2004 impala na/l67 as well as the grand prix na.
The 2004 gtp is another that is an 1" versus 5/8" as mentioned.
No part numbers available for police package.
The gtp rad is special order,so can't compare at AZ.
Fortunately it is a parts store,and I have customers with them. All my customers seem to like me so probably won't mind popping hood to measure either.
Gonna search on gtp forum as well,the info is out there i'm sure.


Stopping by napa to help one of thier guys with thier truck and visit with mechanic buddy there in a minute. I'll see what they list.
I plan to email the place I got my aluminum fiero rad off ebay.
I got one of the american eagle/champions and I really like it.
A small bit of trimming is no problem,I just don't want to re-engineer the front end.

You can also look at a 2004 Buick Regal GS radiator. It is 1" thick also, but it carries a different part# than the GTP radiator and is a little cheaper. I was also looking around last night and found a pretty nice aluminum radiator on the ZZPerformance website. It's huge at 1.4" thick and it only costs $299, which ain't bad if you ask me.

Found this thread about a 1 3/8" thick core in monte's,posting up for future reference.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/radia...gps-67283.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pmkls1

Gotta go for now. I'm in the process of a tranny rebuild on the mother-in-law's 2004 Impala. I just got the tranny out last night and I am about to make a bracket to allow the tranny to be bolted to an engine stand for repairs/overhaul.

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Let me know if you need the tools for resizing the teflon rings.
The coke bottle plastic/hose clamp trick wouldn't work for me when I rebuilt wifes,so I ended up just spending the $150.

I bought the tools because I plan on doing more than 1 rebuild. I got some really good deals on used tools on ebay. I got the tool for the input drum sealing rings for $60 and the 2 turbine shaft tools for $30 each, so I've got $120 invested in about $300 worth of tools if bought new. I'm an ex-GM dealer tech so I'm experienced with some of the more common GM auto trannys. I just never had any of my own specialty tools since they were a shop-supplied item and since I was a regular line tech I didn't need to use them very often.

I have yet to see any of the common tricks work for anybody on solid Teflon sealing rings. I personally never tried any of them because I always had the proper tools available to me. I've also never used scarf-cut rings either except in the rare instances where they are the proper part, like the ring on the 4T65E oil pump shaft. If there were one piece of advice that I had for somebody considering rebuilding their own trans it would be to only use the proper solid rings and invest in a set of the proper sealing ring installers/sizers or have somebody with the proper tools install and size them for you.

Quick update,while this project is dying the engine is not!I never found the needed TC info,and put it off for too long messing with other stuff.
So it stopped shifting on her when the trans got hot (I told her she could drive if she went easy on it,dumb me).


Anyway,I'm gonna do what I should have done in the first place and put stock engine/trans back in. Just waiting on a phone call from a buddy saying he's found them.


This engine will be yanked out and a few things swapped out/added (stainless headers, cam,alt bracket delete etc..) and going in my 88 fiero gt along with a 440t4 from a Mclaren turbo car I have (till I find time to rebuild 4t65hd).
I already have most everything for the swap,including harness disassembled and ready to run.
Just waiting on a few extra hours where I can fit the car in shop long enough to pull powertrain from impala.
I'll start a different build thread for fiero,it will be getting many mods at once (been saving parts for awhile :) ).

I know that this thread is pretty much dead, but I did have a little new info. The radiator in my wife's car took a dump recently so I decided to upgrade it since it was going to be replaced anyways. I didn't have the time to do any experimenting with some of the really big radiators from the gen 1&1.5 w-bodies as they do have some small differences. So, I went ahead and got a radiator for a supercharged grand prix which still has a 1" core vs. the 5/8" N/A model. They are identical except for the core thickness so the 1" rad. dropped right in. I did test-fit the fan assembly before installing the radiator to see what modifications, if any, were necessary. The fan assembly has little stand-offs that space it out from the core at the top and bottom, so the 3 bolt locations have a small gap when the shroud is in place. This leaves you with 2 options to get them to fit properly without warping or breaking the fan housing when tightening the bolts. The first option, which is the route I went for simplicity, is to simply place washers between the bolt bosses on the housing and the radiator. If you do place washers in there the 2 bolts that go in the side tanks will not go in so 2 SLIGHTLY longer bolts are required, but it is critical to make sure that the bolts are only long enough to work because if the bolts are too long they will puncture the side tanks and ruin the new radiator. It only took one hardware store style washer per bolt so I only needed 3 washers and 2 bolts to perform the whole upgrade. The second option would be to take a sharp blade or a grinder and shave enough material off of the little stand-offs until all of the bolt bosses sit flush against the radiator and everything will just drop into place with no other modifications or parts. The second option is probably better, but I was very pressed for time so I didn't have the time to do the fitting. Other than that, the bigger radiator is a drop-in replacement. I really find it funny that on autozone's website the supercharged radiator listing has a note in bold letters saying that it will not work to replace the 5/8" core.