1985 Caddy Limo - Engine swap with transmission issues

Meet Black Betty, a 1985 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham Limo. My buddy and I bought/ rescued her from an LA "hair band" recording studio where, before had she broke down, she had been in service for the last 20 years as the official party car for such bands as Slayer, Ratt, White Snake, Aerosmith, and Bon Jovi.

Like most party girls, she's pretty from afar, but far from pretty when you get up too close, or in daytime. Cheap paint, rust, broken sunroof, absolutely trashed interior. Everything you'd expect in a limo with real rock and roll history.

Attachment 9596Attachment 9584
We bought her for $800 (plus $600 in back registration penalties) on the bet we could get her in motion for a few more grand. :popcorn:

We got two new batteries and replaced the rotted fuel lines and packed fuel filter, and darn if it didn't fire up. We limped around the block only breaking down twice. A tank of fresh gas, some spliced ignition wires (chewed by rats), general tune up, some speed runs to burn off the filth, and we had a wonderful party car that was always on the verge of overheating or breaking down.

While willfully ignoring the mountain of cash it would take to transform this thing into an enjoyable vehicle, it became apparent that the current head gasket leak wasn't going to fix itself, so in an alcohol induced fit of inspiration we decided to pull the motor and rebuild it. For anyone who has ever attempted such a thing you can see where this is going already. The OEM motor was a 4.1L TBI V-8 pumping out an aggressive 135hp. 0-60 was under 30 sec, wet. Obnoxiously underpowered for the task at hand it took about an hour into the tear down to decide to just go ahead do an engine swap. The engine was a total mess and after much research on the webs we found that we'd just be meticulously rebuilding one of the worst engineered GM motors in existence.

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Project funds are depleted and depression sets in. 1 year passes.

After some springtime beer-based research, and based on new budget constraints, we decided to buy an $800 1994 Buick Roadmaster with an 5.7L LT1 that had an output of 280p/ 335 lb-ft, paired with a 4L60E transmission. This seemed to be just enough grunt to pull a bunch of "adults" trying to cling on to their youth. The test drive went well, however on the hour-long ride home I noticed some water temp surging and hard shifts in the transmission.

6 months later and we finally get around pulling everything and scrapped the Roadmaster.

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I have zero fabrication skills so we found a guy that was going to help us with the engine mounts/ set pinion angle, etc. After putting us off for 4 months he decides to leave the country. :mad1:

5 more months pass.

While we were waiting to find a cheap and good (pick two, right?) fabricator, we decided to rebuild the motor and have the transmission inspected. It didn't make much sense to install an engine with known issues.

I had never rebuilt a pushrod motor before, and I'm a bit OCD when it comes to dirt, so it took me most of the summer just to clean the engine to be able to work on it. New water pump, oil pump, Optispark dist, main and cam bearings, rings, every seal I could find, de-carbonized, de-greased, heads were refreshed with valve job etc, etc. I didn't over-bore the cylinders, just deglazed with stones. The cam and crank were mostly in spec. I had hemorrhaged money on everything else so I decided to just let it be a loose engine. I figured I could run thicker oil, if necessary, and call it a day. It's not a hotrod and the mileage on it will be minimal.


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The engine rebuild took all summer, so in the meantime we got the transmission inspected/ refreshed. We were still waiting on a fabricator who wouldn't string us along or wasn't too busy. So the project sat for another 6 months.

We finally got some help though a very talented and generous friend and after a few more months got it in the vehicle.

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And now the transmission problem... more to come.

Thanks for sharing, keep us updated.:thumbsup:

dave w

Cool story!

Well, to my general amazement, I was not only able to successfully assemble a motor, but the thing actually started up on first crank and idled like a champ. No oil leaks, no spun bearings, no overheating. High fives all around.

Honestly, it's kinda an amazing feeling. If you haven't done it you should give it a try. Go slow, read the service manual a few times before you do the task at hand, and if you get in a bind, ask questions on forums and watch a youtube video or two (or 10, like I did).

https://youtu.be/j22UILXOqbA

So all excited like, we get her on the road, and she won't shift out of 1st gear, manually or otherwise.

We had taken the trans to a reputable shop so we were fairly confident that it wasn't a mechanical issue. But as we researched the 4L60E (electronically controlled) transmission we realized that when we unplugged the transmission harness and drove the car, the transmission was not flipping into a proper "limp mode." In theory, when you pull the power from the transmission it should default to 3rd gear and you should be able to manually select 2nd gear, and that was not happening. We were stuck in 1st gear.

We had also read on a forum that some people were able to spin first gear up to 3500 rpm, suddenly come off the gas, and feather it back in, and the trans would up-shift. We tried that, both while the trans had power and was unplugged, and this method worked in both instances. Ok, so, this now led us to believe that it may in fact be a mechanical problem. We pulled the trans and brought it back to the shop.

While they were checking it out we tested the VSS module (seemed ok), we Ohm tested all the wires from the PCM plug to the trans plug (they checked out), and we made sure that the transmission was getting a full 12v in the ignition key-on and running positions.

We also sent the PCM back to the guy who originally flashed it for us (to get rid of the digi-key requirement) and double checked the new/ different rear gear ratio and tire height he had set for the Caddy, and confirmed it was set for an automatic trans and not a manual one. It turns out some of his numbers were in fact off a bit and he re-flashed it to the new spec.

The word came back from the transmission guys that they went ahead and rebuilt the valve body, fully inspected every single part, replaced 3rd gear (was worn), and said "at this point any issue that may occur isn't going to be a mechanical one." This refresh was no cost to us, and so I’m fairly confident that at this point it’s not a mechanical problem.

We double checked all of our wiring and found that we had reverse wired the TCC wire to the brake switch.

So with all this in mind, we put it all back in the limo, and wouldn't you know, the dang thing still won't shift out of 1st gear.

The only change was when we now unplugged the transmission harness it did finally go into a proper limp mode (starts in 3rd gear and we could manually shift to 2nd). So I'm guessing there many have been some sort of mechanical issue originally after all.

HOWEVER, this still doesn't explain why when the transmission has 12v of power going to it, it won't shift out of first gear.

Now, up to this point we had been flying a bit blind. I had failed to pull the ALDL plug out of the Roadmaster and wasn't aware that there was software out there (aside from a GM tech tool) that could help diagnose some of this. We had no idea if the PCM was throwing relevant DTC codes at us or not.

Time to burn more money.

I found an ALDL plug on eBay and downloaded TSS Datamaster (demo version). I bought a ALDL to USB cable from John at 1320 Electronics, and he spent a good hour with me getting it working on my ancient PC laptop.Thanks John!

I started to monitor and according to Datamaster, it turned out we were initially only triggering (3) DTC codes: 43, 84 and 97

43 - This is an open or ground somewhere in the dual knock sensor wiring. I haven't been able to find anything that would suggest this would have any impact on the transmission, so I'm going to rule that out, unless anyone here has some knowledge to the contrary. It would seem odd to me that GM would basically cripple a car to 1st gear if the PCM lost knock sensor input.

84 - This is the transmission 3-2 control solenoid circuit. After I cleared all the codes a few times this is the only one that never came back. Not sure what triggered it, but it’s on my radar to keep an eye out for it again.

97 - This is an open or ground in the VSS output signal that goes to the digital speedo. The caddy has a mechanical speedo so this wire is obsolete unless we get an electrical to mechanical converter box. Based on my research this signal does not go back to the PCM, it’s purely output. We are receiving what looks to be correct MPH/ speed data to the PCM, as seen by Datamaster. So the VSS seems to be working as originally tested (we also replaced it with a brand new one to remove all doubt). I’ve read that we can add a resistor to this wire and it will remove the DTC code. If anyone has another opinion on whether or not this wire needs to be addressed in a different way, please let me know.

Ah, here are two other notes of odd behavior. When the car is in the key-on or running position the MIL light is lit up in a solid state. Also, when the car is running, both radiator fans turn on full blast. This happens when the car is cold or hot. When I clear the DTC trans codes the fans stop for a few seconds, then they both kick back on. Very odd.

While we were discussing my tech issues John suggested I check out TunerProRT (he sent me an .adx file, attached), and Scan9495.

I couldn't get Scan 9495 to work at the time due to some .NET framework stuff I didn’t have installed.

I loaded the supplied .adx into TunerProRT and unfortunately the data stream seemed all over the place. It was swinging from positive to negative numbers and wasn’t at all steady like the Datamaster data.

Being a total amateur with all this software I tried to make a few data logs (attached). For some reason I couldn't seem to log more than a +/- 15 seconds of data using Datamaster. If any one can help with this duration issue I’d greatly appreciate it. I've burned so many free-use licenses trying to learn the software that I only have a about 10 left.

I seemed to have better luck with the duration issue with TunerProRT, however the data seems to be junk (attached). If anyone has any insight as to what’s happening there, I’d greatly appreciate that as well.

Once I got home I downloaded the appropriate .net stuff. I’m happy to say that Scan9495 will now fully launch, but I’m away from the car so I haven’t been able to give that a try yet.

What I like about the 9495 software is that it looks like you can control the actuators, which will tell you if the transmission can receive a command signal. There seems to be a significant warning about not using that feature when the car is moving, so I’m a bit hesitant to try it without some wiser form of supervision. Perhaps it’d be best to track down a GM tech tool and operator?

Given that the Datamaster data was the only stuff I could observe/ trust, here’s what I observed:

- The PRNDL Flag value changes, the Gear Num value does not.

- Trans Modes A & B seem to alternate states when the PRNDL value changes. I’m not sure what this is indicating. i.e. If it's a command signal going to the trans or if it's an output status from the trans.

- 1-2 Shift Dlta T does not indicate a change at any time.

Unfortunately, that's all I know for the moment. I'm kinda stuck.

If anyone has any test methodologies you'd like me to try, using any of the mentioned software, I'll do my best to give it a go. Or if anyone can help me with the TunerProRT data issue that would be great as well.

I look forward to your collective thoughts.

Cory

I realize the above is a pretty big dump of complex info, but does anyone have any thoughts?
Thanks,
Cory

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackBettyLimo

I realize the above is a pretty big dump of complex info, but does anyone have any thoughts?
Thanks,
Cory

---

I'm wondering about the PCM flash? Is the flash $EE or $EEB?

Can you post the .bin file that was flashed into the PCM?

I recently worked with someone who had the wrong flash in the LT1 PCM. With the correct flash, many headaches went away.

dave w

Thanks Dave, I just emailed the guy who flashed the PCM for that info. Do you know if there's a way to interrogate the PCM to tell if it's $EE or $EEB?

The PCM can be flashed either $EE or $EEB. It's a long shot the Flash is wrong, yet a likely cause of the headaches you posted.

dave w

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave w

I'm wondering about the PCM flash? Is the flash $EE or $EEB?

Can you post the .bin file that was flashed into the PCM?

I recently worked with someone who had the wrong flash in the LT1 PCM. With the correct flash, many headaches went away.

dave w

---

On second thought, lets ask for the stock unmodified .bin that was the used to start with. It might be sensitive topic with some PCM programmers, asking for a modified .bin file.

dave w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave w

On second thought, lets ask for the stock unmodified .bin that was the used to start with. It might be sensitive topic with some PCM programmers, asking for a modified .bin file.

---

I'm told he doesn't save the .bin files, but that he does use $EE. "What's in there is the original with the emissions and vats deleted"

It was a long shot, so let's figure the flash is good.

I don't have any new ideas, just wanted to verify the flash.

dave w

It was worth a shot, thanks for the response either way!

The programmer says he can re-flash the PCM to remove the DTC codes (97 & 43). I'd probably want to keep the knock sensors in loop but it could be a good experiment to see if that quickly solves the issue.

I found a post that has a break down from a service manual as follows:

First Gear Range Only - No Upshift

Control Valve Body (60)

• The 1-2 Shift valve is sticking
• The spacer plate or gaskets are mispositioned or damaged

Case (103)
The case to valve body face is damaged or is not flat
Shift Solenoid Valves (366/368)

• Stuck or damaged
• Faulty electrical connection

2-4 Servo Assembly (13-28)

• The apply passage case is restricted or blocked
• Nicks or burrs on the servo pin or on the pin bore in the case
• Fourth servo piston is installed backwards

2-4 Band Assembly (602)

• The 2-4 band is worn or damaged
• The band anchor pin is not engaged

Since the trans has been inspected/ rebuilt, twice, I'm not sure it's mechanical at this point, but I'm not ruling anything out.

I'm going to try and use Scan9495 tomorrow to see if I can trigger the actuators. Finger crossed.

There are 2 solenoids that control the main shifting. They were referred to as A and B but then got called 1-2 and 3-4 to match the ODB2 convention. At any rate, the shift pattern is as follows.

Code:

---

      A  B
1st  X  X
2nd  -  X
3rd  -  -
4th  X  -

---

As you can see, if the A solenoid was stuck-on you'd get 1st and 4th gear, skipping any shifts into 2nd or 3rd gears. That pattern is also why "limp mode" goes to 3rd gear. No power to the solenoids and the transmission goes to 3rd gear.

Now, I'd expect you have to be doing around 30mph or possibly more before the PCM would command a shift into 4th gear. The speed really depends on the tune.

Just to further note, I did check 5 bins and the lowest 3-4 upshift speed was 29mph.

Looking at your log and then a few of my old logs, the "Gear Num" in the left column of TTS is the actual commanded gear. Your log never changes from 1 so it's not even attempting to shift. In my old logs when I used TTS, that number would jump to the next gear and then I could see the rpm and slip rpm results due to the shift being commanded.

If you want, you can ship me your PCM, I can then read and post the .bin file I read from the PCM.

I only ask that you pay shipping, both ways.

Send me a PM for my shipping address.

dave w

First off thanks for the continued responses and offers for help, I'm feeling much less alone in this battle! :thumbsup:

I spent a good part of the day trying to sort out some of the above and here's where I netted out:

Knock Sensors - Per the service manual, attached
1. I tested both knock sensors and they came back within the correct resistance spec.
2. I ohm tested the wires from both plug ends (each sensor plug to PCM connector) and they checked out ok.
3. I put the car in key-on position, pulled off the PCM connector and tested the corresponding pin on the PCM itself for 5V and there was nothing. Then I plugged the connector back in and tested the same pin by using a piece of thin wire running down through the back side of the connector, still nothing.

The service manual says there should be 5V. If not, there's a circuit short or it's a bad PMC.
So that points to bad PCM?


Scan9495 - Data logging

Wow, this software is really great, I'll certainly make a donation! That said, for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to record and save the transmission data. I checked the box in the transmission tab for dataloging, but i couldn't play it back. All of the datalogs I made today can be found here (the last one is probably the best): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/84hyxymk0...FtnKj3Rba?dl=0

Because I couldn't playback the trans data I made a video (https://youtu.be/ARK0Uh2pCxs) which should match the last of the data files in the dropbox if you sort by date/ time. I apologize in advance for the video quality. I'll try to stabilize it later when my computer isn't acting up.

The software seems to create two files (DLOG-trans... and DLOG-Save...). I can't open the "trans" file without getting a hex error. The "Save" files open but do not play back the transmission data. Confused yet? I am.

Transmission Observations

I jacked up the tail of the car and did the following:

1. (not in video) When shifted in Park and key-on, I was able to use the Actuator screen feature to actuate all the solenoids one at a time, in both directions. Or at least, I was able to hear them all make a clicking sound.

2. If you watch the video, towards the end, you'll see that I am able to use the command shift buttons to shift gears up and down successfully. You'll also see that sometimes I had to click more than once to get it to work, not sure if that's an indicator of anything.

3. Manually shifting the transmission does NOT change the gears.

Thoughts/ Questions

Given that the knock sensor 5V output pin on the PCM does not work, I'm led to believe I may want to replace the PCM.

I'm not sure what it means if I can command the transmission to shift up and down using 9495, but it refuses to shift manually.

Is that a PCM problem? i.e. The PCM is not sending the proper signal to the transmission.

Or the it a mencanical issue? i.e. The trans is in a mechanical state which will ignore an incoming signal.

Any thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

There are 2 solenoids that control the main shifting. They were referred to as A and B but then got called 1-2 and 3-4 to match the ODB2 convention. At any rate, the shift pattern is as follows.

Code:

---

      A  B
1st  X  X
2nd  -  X
3rd  -  -
4th  X  -

---

As you can see, if the A solenoid was stuck-on you'd get 1st and 4th gear, skipping any shifts into 2nd or 3rd gears. That pattern is also why "limp mode" goes to 3rd gear. No power to the solenoids and the transmission goes to 3rd gear.

Now, I'd expect you have to be doing around 30mph or possibly more before the PCM would command a shift into 4th gear. The speed really depends on the tune.

---

Thanks for this! I was paying close attention to these cells in Scan9495 because of you.
If you watch the video I just posted you can see these cells in action.
When I manually shift these cells/ solenoids both stay on. When I "command" it to shift up and down they operate as they should.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Just to further note, I did check 5 bins and the lowest 3-4 upshift speed was 29mph.

Looking at your log and then a few of my old logs, the "Gear Num" in the left column of TTS is the actual commanded gear. Your log never changes from 1 so it's not even attempting to shift. In my old logs when I used TTS, that number would jump to the next gear and then I could see the rpm and slip rpm results due to the shift being commanded.

---

Yes, the PCM is failing to send a command signal. Not sure why at this point. Electrical or mechanical?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave w

If you want, you can ship me your PCM, I can then read and post the .bin file I read from the PCM.

I only ask that you pay shipping, both ways.

Send me a PM for my shipping address.

dave w

---

Thanks of the generous offer Dave, Much appreciated. Let's get some thoughts on my latest post before we move to that. Maybe I'm throwing time and money at a bad PCM at this point?

I think the problem might be related with the ParkNeutralPosition switch located on the shift lever.
If it is not installed properlly the pcm will thinks the car is in P or N and will never attempt to shift.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kur4o

I think the problem might be related with the ParkNeutralPosition switch located on the shift lever.
If it is not installed properlly the pcm will thinks the car is in P or N and will never attempt to shift.

---

Is that switch not located in the transmission itself? As you can see in the video link above the trans data shows the gear selector moving, although it is not commanding a gear change.

It is located at the shift lever. It goes to pin C15 at PCM.
You can check where those wire goes and see if it is connected somewhere.
For the PCM to think it is in P or N the wire must be grounded.
If the wire is in open state or not connected It is very possible an error is set and PCM is in some service mode.

OK I just watch the video.
The PNP switch is mostly related with IAC valve so it`s not very important for the not shifting problem.
I just check could the trans solenoids can be manually commanded if the bin is for manual transmission.
Answer is yes, so my final guess is, you have bin for manual transmission in the PCM.
On the video everything look OK except for the transmission not shifting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kur4o

OK I just watch the video.
The PNP switch is mostly related with IAC valve so it`s not very important for the not shifting problem.
I just check could the trans solenoids can be manually commanded if the bin is for manual transmission.
Answer is yes, so my final guess is, you have bin for manual transmission in the PCM.
On the video everything look OK except for the transmission not shifting.

---

The guy who originally flashed the PCM though he could have made that error, so I sent it back to him and he confirmed all the correct specs and made sure he had a flash for an automatic transmission (he suggested that as a possible issue).
I'm guessing he triple checked his flash this last time.

I still need to go see about pin C15 next time I'm at the car, just for grins. No codes being thrown at the moment for that.

I'm certain I have the P/N switch C15 open and the brake switch C14 input jumpered to power and my transmission works.

I recall something about the Manual/Auto flag that is identified in the $EE was wrong because it was giving the wrong results with some bins. I wouldn't turn-on the auto in a bin but rather start with an auto bin.

I'd think the tuner would have pulled the bin, turned-off the stuff which was removed and then re-flashed the same bin.

Since you have a working cable, download winflash programm from tunercats here:

http://tunercat.com/software/winflash/flash_setup.exe

It is fully working demo version limited to one month of usage.
Read the bin from your PCM and post it here.
That way we can help you really fast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kur4o

Since you have a working cable, download winflash programm from tunercats here:

http://tunercat.com/software/winflash/flash_setup.exe

It is fully working demo version limited to one month of usage.
Read the bin from your PCM and post it here.
That way we can help you really fast.

---

Ah, great! Thanks,will do!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kur4o

Since you have a working cable, download winflash programm from tunercats here:

http://tunercat.com/software/winflash/flash_setup.exe

It is fully working demo version limited to one month of usage.
Read the bin from your PCM and post it here.
That way we can help you really fast.

---

I was able to pull the bin file using Tunercat's Winflash as suggested, attached.
What's the best way to view this file?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

I'm certain I have the P/N switch C15 open and the brake switch C14 input jumpered to power and my transmission works.

I recall something about the Manual/Auto flag that is identified in the $EE was wrong because it was giving the wrong results with some bins. I wouldn't turn-on the auto in a bin but rather start with an auto bin.

I'd think the tuner would have pulled the bin, turned-off the stuff which was removed and then re-flashed the same bin.

---

Thanks for the input on C14/15!

The guy who did my flash seems very competent so I'm guessing that outside of any major oversight his methodology is sound.

Is there a way to find a OEM bin and compare the two files?

If I do have to adjust the bin file, I should turn off anything related to Air Conditioning since the limo's AC controls will operate this independently of the PCM. This may fix my "fans-are-always-running on high" issue, based on some recent research.

I should also turn off the VSS output signal.

The fact that the pin on the PCM for the knock sensor circut doesn't register 5v is still of some concern...

I checked the bin.
On eside part, the data is not defined properly on the current xdf files. It looks like tside is $ee and eside is $eeb or something else.
The point is any change on the eside calibration will have unpredictable result.
The best way will be to start with the latest bin for your application. Based on tis2web, your starter bin will have p/n 16200271.
Unfortunatelly I could`n find it anywhere, so we need to pick you another bin similar to your application.

Can you please post your final gear ratio and tire size so I can make you a suggestion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kur4o

I checked the bin.
On eside part, the data is not defined properly on the current xdf files. It looks like tside is $ee and eside is $eeb or something else.
The point is any change on the eside calibration will have unpredictable result.
The best way will be to start with the latest bin for your application. Based on tis2web, your starter bin will have p/n 16200271.
Unfortunatelly I could`n find it anywhere, so we need to pick you another bin similar to your application.

Can you please post your final gear ratio and tire size so I can make you a suggestion.

---

thanks for checking it out! I have to apologize and advance as the vocabulary is starting to get a bit over my head. I'll have to look up eside and tside so I can track this conversation.

Rear gear should be 3.42

Tires are 28" (235/75R15)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kur4o

I checked the bin.
On eside part, the data is not defined properly on the current xdf files. It looks like tside is $ee and eside is $eeb or something else.
The point is any change on the eside calibration will have unpredictable result.
The best way will be to start with the latest bin for your application. Based on tis2web, your starter bin will have p/n 16200271.
Unfortunatelly I could`n find it anywhere, so we need to pick you another bin similar to your application.

Can you please post your final gear ratio and tire size so I can make you a suggestion.

---

Per the site (at bottom of page) : http://fbodytech.com/bin/index.html


16200271 may have been superseded by 16230201?

You can try with this bin, should be a close match.
I turned off vats, so it`s ready for burning.
If it corrects your problem other stuff can be done later.

How do you measure the 5volt on knock sensor circuit with sensor attached or with the sensor disconnected.
It will read 5 volts only if it is disconnected and ignition must be turned on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackBettyLimo

Per the site (at bottom of page) : http://fbodytech.com/bin/index.html


16200271 may have been superseded by 16230201?

---

You`r right 16200271 is your current bin and 16230201 is the latest bin based on the vin number.
16230201 is not available online also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kur4o

You can try with this bin, should be a close match.
I turned off vats, so it`s ready for burning.
If it corrects your problem other stuff can be done later.

How do you measure the 5volt on knock sensor circuit with sensor attached or with the sensor disconnected.
It will read 5 volts only if it is disconnected and ignition must be turned on.

---

Thanks for the bin! I'll try to get out there in the next day or two and give it a go.

I followed the diagnostics for the knock sensor in the attached PDFs a few posts up.
I tested each sensor for resistance, and they checked out.
I ohm tested all the wires with both ends detached (at PCM and at knock sensor).
I tested for voltage at the knock sensor connectors with PCM plug connected and key on, there was no voltage present. With connectors at knock sensors detached, and connector attached to PCM, I stuck a wire through the backside of the PCM connector and tested for voltage with key on, no voltage found.
I unplugged the same PCM connector and tested the pin directly in PCM with key on, and there was no voltage found.

Unless it is some sort of bin related issue, it seems that circuit is dead within the PCM?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kur4o

You`r right 16200271 is your current bin and 16230201 is the latest bin based on the vin number.
16230201 is not available online also.

---

Thanks for clarification, I'll post on a few other forums and see if there's a shot at finding it.

I couldn't find anything online regarding eside and tside. If it's not a pain, can you give me a short description of what those two sides of the bin file represent?

As you know PCM has two flash chips 64kb each. BIN is split between the two chips. Each chip has its own operating system, cal data and processor. Like two separate computers in one box.
Eside chip is responsible mainly for engine operation, Tside for transmission operation.
I hope that makes it a little more clear.

It is bad you don`t have 5v ref on the PCM knock circuit. It could be due to flash, or the PCM might have internal problems and needs replacement.
You can try flash the bin I posted and if there is no improvement look for another PCM.

That tune appears to be $EEB on the engine side but its just plain hosed in the transmission tables. Neither $EE or $EEB shows transmission data that makes any sense. The 1-2 shifting is 30mph with no throttle and just goes higher as the %tps increases. No wonder it wouldn't shift.

You could try Steve's Robotune to create a tune to match what you have.

http://fbodytech.com/index.html

Read the rest of Steve's info because its good stuff. The CPP disabling has to be done right or you hurt proper BLM operation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kur4o

As you know PCM has two flash chips 64kb each. BIN is split between the two chips. Each chip has its own operating system, cal data and processor. Like two separate computers in one box.
Eside chip is responsible mainly for engine operation, Tside for transmission operation.
I hope that makes it a little more clear.

It is bad you don`t have 5v ref on the PCM knock circuit. It could be due to flash, or the PCM might have internal problems and needs replacement.
You can try flash the bin I posted and if there is no improvement look for another PCM.

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Thanks for the quick primer, that's very helpful info. I wasn't aware of the two separate chipsets, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

That tune appears to be $EEB on the engine side but its just plain hosed in the transmission tables. Neither $EE or $EEB shows transmission data that makes any sense. The 1-2 shifting is 30mph with no throttle and just goes higher as the %tps increases. No wonder it wouldn't shift.

You could try Steve's Robotune to create a tune to match what you have.

http://fbodytech.com/index.html

Read the rest of Steve's info because its good stuff. The CPP disabling has to be done right or you hurt proper BLM operation.

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Thanks for taking a look. I wonder where the file got hosed in the process. I sent him the PCM for the initial flash (VAT removal etc), then sent it back to him confirm his work when I found the shifting issue. He did tell me he made a 2nd adjust to the bin (tire and rear gear) and re-flashed it. He swears he pulls the OEM bin and only makes the basic deletions (and uses $EE). Odd.

I'll take a look at Steve's site, looks interesting. The ran the robot tune and it suggested bin 16210011. Hard for me to tell what the differences are from my base file. If I wanted to take a look at the bin file myself and start learning some of this stuff, would I use TunerCat (OBD1 Tuner) and purchase the $EE definition file? Or do I need GM Tech1 tools to delete VAT, AC, etc.

I've only played with VE, Advance and O2 tables when I had my Electromotive Tec II for my other project car, but this GM stuff gets in to the technical weeds pretty fast!

I googled CPP and it seems to apply to a clutch switch? Is this related to TCC or a manual transmission? (or did you mean CCP?)

Sorry, lot's of technical blindspots here, but I'm trying to get up to speed quickly.