WOO HOO...got the programmer, not so happy results of ACHT bin findings....

Got my eprom programmer today and did not think to get an eraser......

Ripped the ACHT bin I am running and found that the "Initial Advance" is 10 degrees.

I was kind of hoping that it would be 0 degrees because that would have explained the seemingly large amount of pinging during the 3-4 gear area of acceleration when I had the distributor timing at 10 degrees.

I backed the timing down to 6 degrees and still have very light pinging in that area and now am not sure why since I now know what the Initial Advance is set to in the eprom.

hmmmmmmm....

What to do next?

Well you have a ACHT chip for a 2.8L engine in a 3.4L engine... so maybe look for a 3.4L bin and see how far off the timing is?

3.4L came with 16149396 ECM
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-DF

Change injector size, change engine displacement and start to tune it.

Using the $4e.xdf, it appears that the constant I have to tweak is the "BPW constant for EGR off" parameter. I've set the minimum temp for egr to "FF" in the table and have set the EGR failure bit to 0.

I did find this thread and based on the formula in that thread, as well as another thread I found from a different board:

BPC=1461.5*(.567/5.796 gm/sec) -- where .567 is the cylinder size of one cylinder in the 3.4l engine and 5.796 grams per second is the flow rate of the 4.3l injectors I am using. The resulting value is based on 13psi fuel pressure I believe.

My math shows 142.97

Well close but I think you calculated cylinder liter based off 8 cylinders? For 6 cylinders I get 0.4186930249/5.669904625 = BPC 143.899



TBI
Val = 1461.5 * (VOL/RATE)
VOL = Vol of 1 Cylinder in liters,
RATE = Injector flow in gms/sec

Did you use the calculator I made?

I don't have any software currently to run that.

Currently installing openoffice......

If I did it correctly, that is showing the new BPC at

138.1397605227

In that spread sheet, it appears the engine size is not matching up.

It's Open Office and FREE! Does everything Microsoft Office does... including opens all MS Office files... Oh and it will save in MS Office format... I think MS Office is out of business...

Wow three times the file size for all the MS encryption not needed...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damanx

I don't have any software currently to run that.

Currently installing openoffice......

If I did it correctly, that is showing the new BPC at

138.1397605227

In that spread sheet, it appears the engine size is not matching up.

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Have to have correct Bore and Stroke for it to be accurate, I just entered one for one of the 3.4L engines...

There is also a Old fuel pressure table and New Fuel Pressure table

Hmmmmm....don't know why but I've always thought the 3.4l was a 207ci.....

Find true bore and stroke, only change white cells.

The bore and stroke in that spreadsheet is correct.

I also don't have old fuel pressure value either.

Will start with the value of 138 and go from there.

The detonation is from the lack of EGR.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fast355

The detonation is from the lack of EGR.

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hmmmm......Ugh...I don't want to have to use the stock intake and egr system....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damanx

Hmmmmm....don't know why but I've always thought the 3.4l was a 207ci.....

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1993 Firebird 3.4L engine Bore 3.62, Stroke 3.31 = 204.4 Cubic inches and 3.34L

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damanx

The bore and stroke in that spreadsheet is correct.

I also don't have old fuel pressure value either.

Will start with the value of 138 and go from there.

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There's nothing in the BPC calculation that needs fuel pressure. The first Value of Val = 1461.5 is AFR of 14.61. If your using E fuel it should be Val = 1413.5 or whatever your fuel E content tests to.

You could start with 138 or any number, but 143.9 is correct.

Now I am confused.

My first calculation that included the flow of the injectors gave me a value of 142.

Using your table, I got 138.

Me too :confused:

I did find a mistake in calculation of cylinder liters in the spreadsheet because of 6 cylinder, it was originally made for V8 only. But it did not effect BPC because it uses engine liters divided by cylinders entered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fast355

The detonation is from the lack of EGR.

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Good catch Fast!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damanx

hmmmm......Ugh...I don't want to have to use the stock intake and egr system....

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Turn off EGR...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

Good catch Fast!

Turn off EGR...

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Exactly....Set the enable temperature well above the engines operating temperature....problem solved. The ecm will no longer lean out the mixture or advamce the timing without the coresponding egr dilution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fast355

Exactly....Set the enable temperature well above the engines operating temperature....problem solved. The ecm will no longer lean out the mixture or advamce the timing without the coresponding egr dilution.

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Made these changes earlier to the BIN:

03/29/2013 15:06:27 Scalar: MPH Under which EGR is Disabled changed from 0.00 MPH (0x00) to 95.00 MPH (0x5F).
03/29/2013 15:06:38 Scalar: MPH Above which EGR is Enabled changed from 0.00 MPH (0x00) to 96.00 MPH (0x60).
03/29/2013 15:08:04 Scalar: Minimum Coolant Temp for EGR changed from 162.65 F (0xEF) to 184.25 F (0xFF).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damanx

03/29/2013 15:08:04 Scalar: Minimum Coolant Temp for EGR changed from 162.65 F (0xEF) to 184.25 F (0xFF).

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Don't trust that one, it's wrong. There's no conversion to temp and it's an AD count not available yet to match the AD Count to coolant. $FF is 255 counts = -40

EDIT: Just read the hack on $4e and no notes, so don't know if this is AD counts or just Celsius. Either way don't trust, it may be $00 to turn off.

Your MPH if named correctly should work.

Code:

---

LD2AE:  FCB 181        ; BPW const for EGR off, (0.703)
            ;----------------------------------------------
            ; LD2AE Constant is used for fuel BPW when
            ; EGR is off.
            ;
            ; If EGR is on, table LD2FB gives a different
            ; contstant Vs. Vacumm for EGR compensation
            ;
            ; Durring EGR transients the val is filtered
            ; between the two constants for smoothing

---

Code:

---

A/D    DEGREES
COUNTS      C
-------  -------
255      -40
251      -30
250      -25
247      -20
245      -15
241      -10
237      - 5
231        0
225        5
218      10
209      15
199      20
189      25
177      30
165      35
152      40
139      45
126      50
114      55
102      60
92        65
81        70
72        75
64        80
56        85
50        90
44        95
39        100
34        105
30        110
26        115
23        120
21        125
18        130
16        135
14        140
13        145
12        150
0        200

---

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...TS-conversions

I've got to get a UV light to erase the proms, how would running the 4.3l prom affect the EGR and the pinging?

Or you could do it better and solder in a G2 and use 27Fs512 chips, erase? Click!

https://www.moates.net/g2-memory-ada....html?cPath=64

Didn't you get a burn 2? It won't program a 2732a chip, just read it.

I do still use 2732a chips brand new when done with a tune using my 1227747 or other with G2 adapters soldered in and my Autoprom, but then burn a 2732a for stock ECM and reinstall. Never had much luck UV erasing stock GM chips, but the new ST2732a I've tested and burned and erased 5 times. Seems I fry GM AMD? chips every time?

I got one of the g540 eprom readers from ebay.

Finally got an eprom programmed. Although I am still waiting on the uvc lamp to erase the eproms, about 8 hours of direct Arizona sun seems to work also.

I modified the AMRW bin with the following changes, based on the 3.4l engine, 13 psi fuel pressure, and 4.3l injectors.

Edit Log for AMRWa.bin created by TunerPro.
************************************************** ************************
03/12/2013 10:49:04 Scalar: Minimum Coolant Temp for EGR changed from 95.15 F (0xBD) to 184.25 F (0xFF).
03/12/2013 10:50:07 Scalar: Minimum Coolant Temp for EGR changed from 184.25 F (0xFF) to 95.15 F (0xBD).
03/30/2013 11:01:54 Scalar: MPH Above which EGR is Enabled changed from 6.00 MPH (0x06) to 105.00 MPH (0x69).
03/30/2013 11:02:05 Scalar: MPH Under which EGR is Disabled changed from 4.00 MPH (0x04) to 104.00 MPH (0x68).
03/30/2013 11:02:32 Scalar: Minimum Coolant Temp for EGR changed from 95.15 F (0xBD) to 184.25 F (0xFF).
03/30/2013 11:05:42 Scalar: BPW Constant for EGR Off changed from 181.00 (0xB5) to 142.00 (0x8E).
04/03/2013 15:14:29 Flag: 32 EGR changed from Set to Not Set..

Will run Tunerpro on the way to work and post the files.

I did take a test run and definitely noticed a slight difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damanx

Although I am still waiting on the uvc lamp to erase the eproms, about 8 hours of direct Arizona sun seems to work also.

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Takes over a week here in Idaho summer... :rolleye:

I'll be heading to Petsmart to get a UV steralizer for fish tanks.

These numbers are from Winaldl since I can't get TunerPro to work as it once did.

BPW Constant set to 142. (3.4l with 4.3l injectors, 13.5 psi fuel pressure, modified AMRW bin in 1228062 ecm)

BLM Wide Avg
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
800 0.0 110.4 118.0 114.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
1200 0.0 110.2 111.2 124.0 0.0 121.6 125.5 0.0 0.0
1600 0.0 108.1 112.2 116.8 121.1 122.7 124.9 0.0 0.0
2000 0.0 112.9 113.6 116.7 120.1 121.9 0.0 0.0 0.0
2400 0.0 0.0 120.3 121.5 127.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

INT Wide Avg
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
800 0.0 128.8 121.5 113.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
1200 0.0 127.5 127.3 126.0 0.0 134.0 144.5 0.0 0.0
1600 0.0 126.8 127.2 126.3 129.7 135.2 132.0 0.0 0.0
2000 0.0 123.0 125.6 129.6 130.2 127.9 0.0 0.0 0.0
2400 0.0 0.0 123.0 135.0 127.7 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

O2 Wide Avg
RPM \ MAP 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
400 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
800 0.000 0.422 0.518 0.004 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
1200 0.000 0.545 0.394 0.013 0.000 0.556 0.102 0.084 0.000
1600 0.000 0.366 0.449 0.438 0.536 0.537 0.597 0.000 0.000
2000 0.000 0.515 0.457 0.540 0.597 0.673 0.000 0.000 0.000
2400 0.000 0.000 0.401 0.533 0.474 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000

Knock counts

RPM \ MAP 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100
400 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
600 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
800 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1000 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0
1200 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1400 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1600 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1800 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2000 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damanx

I'll be heading to Petsmart to get a UV steralizer for fish tanks.

---

May work as good as sunshine. But chips are supposed to be erased at specific UV light rating and amount of time. If not they are not completely erased or damaged.
Plenty of them on eBay for $20-$40..

The UV sterilizers for fish tanks are the same as those used in barber shops for combs, scissors, razors and are the same as those uv lamps in the water machines at walmart. They are all at the frequency of 253 nanometers, which is the frequency of the same lamps that erase eproms. These are commonly referred to as germicidal lamps.

Black lights run about 400 nanometers.

But are they really cheaper then $20?

You have a great deal of knowledge. Do you have any insight to correct UV erase time for stock GM chips or the aftermarket replacement ST2732a chips everyone has used for ? 10 to 20 years?

I'd have to check the specs, but would not doubt that the different manufacturers have slightly different ideas on how their respective chips are effectively erased.

What is certain that the wavelength is 253 nanometers is required to effectively erase them in the shortest amount of time, which I suspect to be between 1/2 hour to 1 hour depending on bulb wattage and distance from bulb that the memory is.

I've got an old Holiday Electronics UV eraser with the timer, it's set to 10 minutes. I'll do four chips at a time, this lines up the window on eprom centered to the light.

Tried this again on stock GM chips and works fine. Don't know why I used to fry them? Was long ago, I've been buying new ST2732a chips from China for years. Usually just burn one when I'm done emulating. I don't UV erase much...

HTH!

eagle mark I have a logical eprom eraser,it will erase any erasable chip, its got a long line just pass 10 minutes that is where I erase at. some of them gm eproms need programed at 25 volts and I think that is what smokes the chips,all the replacement eproms that I have dealt with program at 21 volts.i think the older eprom proggramers had to do with eproms not being useable but 1-2 times.10 -12 minutes earase time seams to work good on the 21 volt eproms. moates electric erase chips is the way to go unless you are tunning custumers vehicales.

ony, are you talking about the EPROMs that use UVC light to erase?

yes the old 2732-2732a use a ultraviolent light, moates chips you use your programmer to erase them electronicly,i have 2 moates chips that I have erasied and programmed about 70 times each.

i've been playing with my uvc light and programming software with a couple 2732 chips and am not having any issues other than a some easily worked around quirks with the programmer software and no issues with the chips.

I can't find my old 2732a data sheet... what is voltage to program on the stock GM chips?

The aftermarket ST2732a is 21 volt to program.

Seems consistent 10 minutes in my UV eraser works fine on both GM chips and the ST chips.

2732's program pulse is 25v max.

2732a's program pulse is 22v max.