How-to Tuning Collaboration

Hello everyone. I'm currently getting the gear needed to start tuning, both obd1 and 2. And I wold like to create a video for dummies (like me lol), on how to begin tuning older EFI cars using Tuner Cat and Jet. The only thing I'm missing is the obd1/2 aldl. For starters, should I get the obd1/2 lt1 tuner kit from tuner cat, or the tuner kit pro (both being Y kits)? I'm willing to give a new product a try, if any. I know there's a program that comes with the pro.But do I need it? I recall someone mentioning on making my own ALDL. Is it worth? Anyhow, I would like to collaborate with anyone, or even a group, to create a visual aid for beginners. Of course everyone who provides good guidance will be credited. I don't make a living on the videos. I simply do it to help others while learning something new (retirement sucks!!!) Today I get my jet, so I will dabble with that, until I can pull the trigger on the Tuner Cat Kit. Hopefully buy then, I'll feel a little bit more comfortable with the tuning software's. I've gone through some of the tutorials, and most of it reads like stereo instructions (jk).

First thing I need is a starter list. So far I have the following:

-Computer (XP or higher)
-Flashhack
-eehack
-Tuner Pro RT
-JetDST and/or TunerCat ALDL OBD1/2 Usb converter

Am I missing anything?

Second
I know the very first thing to do, is to create a main back up of the cars program. Which brings me to a question. How do I take my current obd2 program and back it up with the ALDL obd1 using TPR? Basically to convert my obd2 tune to using an obd1 computer. As I continue down my path, I will follow up with questions and an open mind. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated

Third
What's needed to convert from obd2 to a 1. And from what I've gathered:

-An ecm that controls that specific motor will be be ok. In this case I have a 16188051 for my obd1 conversion for an LT1 (Am I tracking?)
-Obd1 knock sensor. Although I'm unclear on the conversion process, but I'll worry about it when I get to that bridge.

If you're curious about my channel and the content I put out, feel free to pay it a visit: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfN...FFwN_k-WNX-0uA (Kodiak Outdoors). That's pretty much all I have at the moment. But I look forward to learning and working with everyone. Thank you

first off you need to stop posting the same thing in two places - admins will get annoyed by that

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First thing I need is a starter list. So far I have the following:

-Computer (XP or higher)
-Flashhack
-eehack
-Tuner Pro RT
-JetDST and/or TunerCat ALDL OBD1/2 Usb converter

Am I missing anything?

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windows 7 or higher computer for eehack and flashhack. it doesn't run on XP

What's needed to convert from obd2 to a 1. And from what I've gathered:

Quote:

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I know the very first thing to do, is to create a main back up of the cars program. Which brings me to a question. How do I take my current obd2 program and back it up with the ALDL obd1 using TPR? Basically to convert my obd2 tune to using an obd1 computer. As I continue down my path, I will follow up with questions and an open mind. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated

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you have two approaches

approach one, read the calibration with jet DST and manually copy the values over from your fuel and spark tables.

the tables may be different sizes or configurations so you will need to interpolate the data either manually (which is what everyone else does) or with a 3d spline calculation or something. im actually working on a tool that'll have a 3d spline interpolator, but im really busy so it might be 100 years before it's done.

approach two, assume your existing tune is garbage and start over, you don't know who made it, if it was done with a dyno or a wideband, for all you know it caused power loss over stock

i recommend approach two because tuning an LT1 is really really easy with the tools i provide

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-An ecm that controls that specific motor will be be ok. In this case I have a 16188051 for my obd1 conversion for an LT1 (Am I tracking?)
-Obd1 knock sensor. Although I'm unclear on the conversion process, but I'll worry about it when I get to that bridge.

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that's pretty much it as far as i remember

oh, regarding the video, that would be awesome. another guy has done a few too. if you wanted to do it scripted, you could shoot me the script and i could tell you if there are any factual errors or whatever.

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Originally Posted by steveo

first off you need to stop posting the same thing in two places - admins will get annoyed by that



windows 7 or higher computer for eehack and flashhack. it doesn't run on XP

What's needed to convert from obd2 to a 1. And from what I've gathered:



you have two approaches

approach one, read the calibration with jet DST and manually copy the values over from your fuel and spark tables.

the tables may be different sizes or configurations so you will need to interpolate the data either manually (which is what everyone else does) or with a 3d spline calculation or something. im actually working on a tool that'll have a 3d spline interpolator, but im really busy so it might be 100 years before it's done.

approach two, assume your existing tune is garbage and start over, you don't know who made it, if it was done with a dyno or a wideband, for all you know it caused power loss over stock

i recommend approach two because tuning an LT1 is really really easy with the tools i provide



that's pretty much it as far as i remember

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My fault. I'm sometimes not sure where to place my post. I'm sure you're right. In fact, I bet I'm over exaggerating the difficulty level of tuning an Lt1. Is "Wideband" calculated hp?

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

My fault. I'm sometimes not sure where to place my post. I'm sure you're right.
In fact, I bet I'm over exaggerating the difficulty level of tuning an LT1.
Is "Wideband" calculated hp?

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Pareto-something ... the first 80% of tuning is easy enough. The last 20%, you'll be glad for $EEhack.

'Wideband' is in contrast to 'narrowband', as in O2 sensors.
Most OE O2 sensors are narrowband. They are most accurate between 0.35Volts (slightly lean) & 0.55Volts (slightly rich).
Outside of that narrow window, OE O2 sensors are increasingly inaccurate / unreliable as compared to wideband O2 sensors, especially with changes in exhaust temperature.
'Rich' is 'rich', and 'lean' is 'lean', but using narrowband O2 sensors to differentiate between 14.2 & 15.4, even if new, is simply not as accurate / reliable.

Narrowband O2 sensors are 'good enough' for tuning low load, low RpM, 'driving Miss Daisy' stuff to near stoichiometric.

On the other hand, wideband O2 sensors are much more accurate and reliable, pretty much regardless of exhaust temp fluctuations, regardless of the AFR.
The further away from stoichiometric - Highway Mode / Lean Cruise, or Wide Open Throttle Power Enrichment - the more accurate the wideband O2 sensors are compared to narrowband, especially once upgrades like cam / heads / extra displacement come into play.

(You have a Private Message.)

With TunerCAT, will I have issues like the one on the photo below? It's from the DTS Tuner, and I get it on both WinXP, Win10, and Win11. I just wanted to read the data to have a base template to go by, before I make the obd1 conversion. I have a bin file now (Thanks Dissod!). Is that all I need for the Obd1 ecm swap? Thanks!

Attachment 18265

TunerCAT OBD1 will not be able to read or edit JET DST OBD2 files.
JET DST OBD2 will not be able to read or edit TunerCAT OBD1 files.

For an OBD1 LT1 swap you need:
one 16188051 pcm
*two 10456126 OBD1 knock sensors (ACDelco #213-96)*
drain all the coolant out,
then remove the old OBD2 knock sensors and find out how much more coolant was still left hiding in the block
then install the 10456126 in place of the OBD2 knock sensors you just removed
then top off the cooling system (don't forget to burp it!)

To install the OBD1 .bin file into the OBD1 LT1 pcm (16188051) you will need an OBD1 LT1 cable, and FlashHack.

Looks like all I need is the ALDL Cable and knock sensors. Are the base '95 values the same as a '96? Or is there even a need to back up my current tune for references?

If you mean, "back up my current OBD2 tune", keep the OBD2 pcm until you're sure you don't need it anymore.
If you don't need it for an upcoming emissions test, then sell it.

The OBD1 pcm will run your 'vette indistinguishably from the OBD2 pcm, once the correct .bin file is installed into the pcm, and the knock sensors are replaced.

After some research. I found a post where a gent had a obd2TunerCat, before it became JET. And learned his PCM was fried. He kept getting the exact same error window as me. Anyone heard of that? Otherwise, I'm sending the jet back and pulling the trigger one the obd1 conversion. And focusing on that only; although, I seem to be having issues finding things on TurnerRTPro. For Example: I have larger than stock wheels, and need to make an adjustment. Where do I go? Same goes with the EGR delete and the AIR Injection Delete I couldn't find anything. I'm using the bin and xdf from the TunerRT website too. Now the fun part...

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

After some research. I found a post where a gent had a obd2TunerCat, before it became JET. And learned his PCM was fried.
He kept getting the exact same error window as me. Anyone heard of that?
Otherwise, I'm sending the jet back and pulling the trigger one the obd1 conversion.
And focusing on that only; although, I seem to be having issues finding things on TurnerRTPro.
For Example: I have larger than stock wheels, and need to make an adjustment. Where do I go?
Same goes with the EGR delete and the AIR Injection Delete I couldn't find anything. I'm using the bin and xdf from the TunerRT website too.
Now the fun part ...

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Believe it or not, TunerPro RT works better with steveo's $EEX definition.
If you're having trouble finding parameters, use steveo's $EEx definition instead of whatever TunerPro provides for the LT1.

pcm does not care what size wheel.
pcm will never be able to tell the difference between 255/70R15, 255/65R16, 255/60R17, and 255/55R18 - they are all 29.04" tall.
What is your actual tire size?

I made the switch to Steveo's xdf. It still looks weird, and the text file you sent me is pretty straight forward. My actual wheel size measures 25.xx", but based on calculations for 295/35-18, 26.1". When I make the swap, will I still retain all dash/gauges and OE functions? Also, should I go with TunerCAT or Moates? Thanks

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

Believe it or not, TunerPro RT works better with steveo's $EEX definition.
If you're having trouble finding parameters, use steveo's $EEx definition instead of whatever TunerPro provides for the LT1.

pcm does not care what size wheel.
pcm will never be able to tell the difference between 255/70R15, 255/65R16, 255/60R17, and 255/55R18 - they are all 29.04" tall.
What is your actual tire size?

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

I made the switch to Steveo's xdf. It still looks weird, and the text file you sent me is pretty straight forward.
My actual TIRE size measures 25.xx", but based on calculations for 295/35-18, 26.1".
When I make the swap, will I still retain all dash/gauges and OE functions? Also, should I go with TunerCAT or Moates? Thanks

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1. 'Weird'? How so?

2. By swap, you mean using the OBD1 pcm instead of the OBD2 pcm?
Once you install OBD1 knock sensors, you'll wonder why more people haven't done this - EVERYTHING works, no differences. That's why it's so popular.

3. Between TunerCAT & Moates, TunerCAT, handsdown.
(Moates has been advertising TunerCAT OBD2 as available when you include a RoadRunner kit, but they will not sell it anymore, which makes OBD1 conversion even more popular.)
Steveo's $EEx, FlashHack, and $EEhack not only outperform TunerCAT & DataCAT (once you get the hang of them), TunerCAT and DataCAT are not free.
I'd still order TunerCAT's OBD1LT1 cable though.

295/35R18 = 26.12"

Never mind. Once I printed it out it made more sense. But when I view it on the screen, it looks way different, not to mention confusing. Like lint, I'm sure I'll pick it up. Yes, that's exactly what I mean when I use the word swap.

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

1. 'Weird'? How so?

2. By swap, you mean using the OBD1 pcm instead of the OBD2 pcm?
Once you install OBD1 knock sensors, you'll wonder why more people haven't done this - EVERYTHING works, no differences. That's why it's so popular.

3. Between TunerCAT & Moates, TunerCAT, handsdown.
(Moates has been advertising TunerCAT OBD2 as available when you include a RoadRunner kit, but they will not sell it anymore, which makes OBD1 conversion even more popular.)
Steveo's $EEx, FlashHack, and $EEhack not only outperform TunerCAT & DataCAT (once you get the hang of them), TunerCAT and DataCAT are not free.
I'd still order TunerCAT's OBD1LT1 cable though.

295/35R18 = 26.12"

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If we're talking about TunerPro RT, 'Parameter Category' works best, and don't forget to turn the comments ON.

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

......you will need an OBD1 LT1 cable.....

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Do you mean this one? http://www.tunercat.com/cables/lt1kit.html Don't I need the obd2 cable to fit my existing adapter? Either way, I'll probably get the Y package.

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

Do you mean this one? http://www.tunercat.com/cables/lt1kit.html
Don't I need the obd2 cable to fit my existing adapter?
Either way, I'll probably get the Y package.

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Yes.
If you want to communicate with the OBD1 pcm, you want an OBD1 cable, even if that OBD1 cable has an OBD2 adapter on one end of it.
If you get the 'Y', this becomes moot.

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

If we're talking about TunerPro RT, 'Parameter Category' works best, and don't forget to turn the comments ON.

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THAT my friend made a world of difference lol. I pretty much found everything I needed. And yes there's one thing I'm uncertain about, and that's the speed/tire calibration. But the JetDTS is on it's way back, knock sensors and TunerCat are in route, PCM, painted to match the car and ready to install (I just hope it's working). Now I have two laptops (one personal (W11), one dedicated (W10), and a desktop (XP). With Tuner RT Pro, can I just use my Windows 10 laptop (dedicated), or do I need Windows XP? I'll tell you what... I'm freaking stoked about trying this swap/upgrade out. I'm not sure what to expect, but it's a learning situation. Plus I kind of feel pretty good about this swap. Cheers!

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

THAT my friend made a world of difference lol. I pretty much found everything I needed.
And yes there's one thing I'm uncertain about, and that's the speed/tire calibration ...
Now I have two laptops (one personal (W11), one dedicated (W10), and a desktop (XP).
With TunerPro RT, can I just use my Windows 10 laptop (dedicated), or do I need Windows XP?

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There's a spreadsheet running around that should be able to help you with LT1 speedo correction.

So far as I know, TunerPro RT works with Windows XP or newer, TunerCAT works with XP or newer.
(JET DST is rumored to work better with XP than with newer Windows OS, but please don't quote me on that.)
Been using both TunerCAT OD1LT1, and TunerPro RT, on Windows 7 since 2009 with no issues.

Today I acquired Jet file that matches my car, so I got this froggy idea to just try to upload the stock parameters right off the bat. I figured; It's locked, might as well give it a try. Well, the sob uploaded flawlessly. I thought, that's great!. I took out the keys and waited a minute and a half extra to do anything else. So I plugged the programmer back in, and tried to get a reading. It finally worked, then towards the end of the scan, it bombed. Long story short, I bricked my pcm lol. I used my windows 10 dedicated laptop. But with the swap in the near future. I'm not worried about it. I'm actually having a good chuckle about it

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

There's a spreadsheet running around that should be able to help you with LT1 speedo correction.

So far as I know, TunerPro RT works with Windows XP or newer, TunerCAT works with XP or newer.
(JET DST is rumored to work better with XP than with newer Windows OS, but please don't quote me on that.)
Been using both TunerCAT OD1LT1, and TunerPro RT, on Windows 7 since 2009 with no issues.

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

Today I acquired Jet file that matches my car, so I got this froggy idea to just try to upload the stock parameters right off the bat.
I figured; It's locked, might as well give it a try. Well, the sob uploaded flawlessly. I thought, that's great!
I took out the keys and waited a minute and a half extra to do anything else.
So I plugged the programmer back in, and tried to get a reading. It finally worked, then towards the end of the scan, it bombed.
Long story short, I bricked my pcm lol. I used my windows 10 dedicated laptop.
But with the swap in the near future, I'm not worried about it. I'm actually having a good chuckle about it.

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So far as I know, a pcm cannot be bricked by reading it.
If JET DST somehow bricked it, it was during a previous write.

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

So far as I know, a pcm cannot be bricked by reading it.
If JET DST somehow bricked it, it was during a previous write.

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I didn't want to drag the story. But after it bombed the read, I tried to reprogram again, it started then gave an error... lol. I figured it wouldn't be able to program since I could no longer read it again. Oh well, Tuner cat will be in Saturday. Can I go ahead and install the new computer an program it before the knock sensors come in, or do I have to wait? Thanks

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

I didn't want to drag the story. But after it bombed the read, I tried to reprogram again, it started then gave an error.
I figured it wouldn't be able to program since I could no longer read it again.
Oh well, TunerCAT will be in Saturday. Can I go ahead and install the new computer and program it before the knock sensors come in, or do I have to wait?

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You would need either TunerCAT's embedded flash utility, or FlashHack, to write to (or read from) the OBD1LT1 pcm.
The OBD1LT1 pcm likely has in it a .bin file other than the one you prefer (statistically, a 2.56 LT1 4- or 5-door).
You'll need TunerCAT, the pcm, and the car to read & write.

I have the software installed and ready. Plus I went ahead and got a used toughbook to make my dedicated PC with XP. Is there a way to print out a report of the entire calibration, using TunerRTP? I would like to compare parameters. TC will be in Sat, and I would like to program the new ECM before the knock sensors come in, and then turn the car on once installed. Or is that not advisable? Thanks

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

You would need either TunerCAT's embedded flash utility, or FlashHack, to write to (or read from) the OBD1LT1 pcm.
The OBD1LT1 pcm likely has in it a .bin file other than the one you prefer (statistically, a 2.56 LT1 4- or 5-door).
You'll need TunerCAT, the pcm, and the car to read & write.

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

I have the software installed and ready. Plus I went ahead and got a used toughbook to make my dedicated PC with XP.

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TunerCAT OBD1 & TunerPro RT will both run just fine on Windows 7 or anything newer.
(JET DST runs best on Windows XP - not that that matters anymore ...)

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

Is there a way to print out a report of the entire calibration, using TunerPro RT? I would like to compare parameters.

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Can anyone else answer that?
By the time I got any good at tuning LT1s with TunerCAT, I'd stopped looking at printed calibrations.
It was a few years after THAT that I'd just begun using TunerPro RT, so I never used TunerPro RT to print anything out.
I just look at whatever I need to look at on the laptop.
Since TunerPro RT's LT1 definition files can see parameters that TunerCAT's LT1 definition files cannot, use TunerPro RT to print out the calibration, not TunerCAT.

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Originally Posted by TheKodiak

TC will be in Sat, and I would like to program the new ECM before the knock sensors come in, and then turn the car on once installed. Or is that not advisable?

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If TunerCAT will be in Sat, then you'd like to flash the pcm with $FlashHack, yeah? You got an OBD1 cable?

I did buy the "Y" kit. So it comes with both. I'm guessing I'm supposed to use the obd1 and not the obd2 cable? Glad i got both lol. Besides, it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! An expensive frame of mind, but it works with the wife! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

TunerCAT OBD1 & TunerPro RT will both run just fine on Windows 7 or anything newer.
(JET DST runs best on Windows XP - not that that matters anymore ...)Can anyone else answer that?
By the time I got any good at tuning LT1s with TunerCAT, I'd stopped looking at printed calibrations.
It was a few years after THAT that I'd just begun using TunerPro RT, so I never used TunerPro RT to print anything out.
I just look at whatever I need to look at on the laptop.
Since TunerPro RT's LT1 definition files can see parameters that TunerCAT's LT1 definition files cannot, use TunerPro RT to print out the calibration, not TunerCAT.If TunerCAT will be in Sat, then you'd like to flash the pcm with $FlashHack, yeah? You got an OBD1 cable?

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you have an obd2 connector but with an obd1 swap will be running the obd1 data through an obd2 style port. this is actually something gm did from the factory for 1995 model LT1 based cars and most people call it obd1.5.

confused? you should be. maybe this will help.

http://shbox.com/1/dlc1.jpg

Not really. Once I saw the cables, it made perfectly good sense, and then having to just swap the pcm and knock sensors with no re-wiring. Afterward it became obvious that I'm actually going into what you called, obd1.5 lol. But of course the guidance I'm receiving has helped a lot! By the way, do I need anything extra for DataCat? Seems like I just need the software. Thanks

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Originally Posted by steveo

you have an obd2 connector but with an obd1 swap will be running the obd1 data through an obd2 style port. this is actually something gm did from the factory for 1995 model LT1 based cars and most people call it obd1.5.

confused? you should be. maybe this will help.

http://shbox.com/1/dlc1.jpg

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Just the software and everything else you already have (or will have by tomorrow).

Sorry big guy, I failed to mention I got it today. That's why I got the awakening. Monday I'll start the programming. In fact, the knock sensors will be in on Monday too. Oh, it turns out I didn't brick the obd2 pcm. I accidentally left the lights on and it killed the battery. So when I swapped to my back-up battery, no fans, no christmas tree, or anything, like the the day prior. So I went ahead and "read" the pcm (with my xp desktop) and got the desired results, not the PO's tune, but the stock tune from the file I got (Thanks Doc) and restored. So I went over it, and made a calibration for the tires, and . Everything went well. But right now I'm getting everything squared away for the new brain.

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Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod

Just the software and everything else you already have (or will have by tomorrow).

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UPDATE: I haven't fully made the swap yet. Sadly, my luck has seemed to dribble over to TunerCat. Although I did manage to read and flash. I can't seem to keep it connected. Once FlashHack is open, I go to EE and plug the obd cable in and turn the car on (not start). I give it a few seconds and load the kernel, then I get stuck in a loop (sometimes the fans and stuff come on briefly, then go off). I've gone to unload kernel and disconnect, still it won't budge. Yesterday, while I was having my repeat moment, I manage to change the VIN. But then the loop again, so out of irritation I said Beef It! And flashed the bin shared by Dissod, and by some freaky miracle. It went through the whole process. Not sure if it works, but I would like to think my pcm isn't bricked. However, seeing how I'm now having issues with TunerCat, and the obs1 pcm. I haven't fully committed to the swap yet. I went ahead an attached a log of my session, In case someone can shed some light to this. Thanks