Old L31 + Etec 170s, Comp 215/220 cam, Doug Thorley Header, 3" thunderbolt cats

Finally got around to installing my Doug Thorley Tri-Ys and the ETec170s I have had for some time. While it was apart I smoothed out the Marine intake a little to eliminate some casting flash and upgraded to a 85mm throttle body to better match my 3.34" ID intake setup and 85mm 5 wire maf.

To match the heads I have a 271/276 @ .006, 215/220 @ .050, .534/.547 (w 1.6:1), 114* LSA cam installed on a 110* ICL (4* advanced)

I replaced my crispy magnaflow high flow cats with a set of thunderbolt 3.0" high flow 200 cell count metallic core cats. At the exit of thes cat I used mandrel bent 2.5" pipes into a magnaflow 22" case dual in/single out muffler. 3" tailpipe with a 4" tip. At highway cruise its surprisingly quiet.

As with my normal luck of things I am out of fuel. The fuel pump in the Vortec trucks/vans is said to be the same one shipped in the Ramjet 502 crate engine. The Ramjet 502 is 500+ HP, yet I am out at 375 RWHP. However it could be the fact it is 16 years old and has over 85K on it. On the dyno I could only get to 13.5:1 afr rather than my normal 12.6:1. Pushed the pulsewidth and duty cycle higher by increasing the MAF/VE tables and the fuel ratio stayed the same. Put a gauge on it and the normal 58 psi of the marine regulator was dropping into the mid 40s at WOT. We changed the filter but it is still dropping under WOT above 3,500. Guess it is time to finally install the new Delphi pump I have had for 2 years for it. Perhaps finally have a functioning fuel gauge if I am lucky.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...2&d=1397493750

I know it may seem weird, but coming from a 110* LSA cam with only 206/210* duration, to the 215/220 on a 114* the powerband and idle is very smooth. I have not calculated the overlap but the PCM just seems happier with this setup. I had to add fuel across the board and it was more receptive to timing advance with the aluminum heads.

Starting to wonder how long the factory spec GM Goodwrench short block will hold up. Shifts are programmed at 6,200 at the moment with a 6,500 rpm rev-limiter. Dyno pulls were 2nd gear only. 6,500 rpm in 2nd is 105 mph.

Nice numbers! With adequate fuel you should add.. what... 10% to them? I'd like to see if a new stock pump would supply what's needed! And it's just age killing the supply?

If you saw my other fuel pump thread you know I'm looking for the LPH or GPH. This info from Delphi changes, all the other info is steady and seems accurate. For the EP381 (Vortec) pump I've seen 27 to 32.5 GPH... the EP241(TPI) is only 16 GPH... while the EP386 and EP377 (TBI) pumps are 23 GPH. So I was waiting for someone to chime in if they had other info?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleMark

Nice numbers! With adequate fuel you should add.. what... 10% to them? I'd like to see if a new stock pump would supply what's needed! And it's just age killing the supply?

If you saw my other fuel pump thread you know I'm looking for the LPH or GPH. This info from Delphi changes, all the other info is steady and seems accurate. For the EP381 (Vortec) pump I've seen 27 to 32.5 GPH... the EP241(TPI) is only 16 GPH... while the EP386 and EP377 (TBI) pumps are 23 GPH. So I was waiting for someone to chime in if they had other info?

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I do not expect to see a huge HP change, maybe even lose a few HP at 12.6:1, but I will feel better running heavy throttle/heavy load at that air/fuel ratio. 13.5 is not really, IMO lean enough to hurt a naturally aspirated engine for short runs, but sustained wide open throttle such as pulling a trailer uphill it could get things pretty warm.

IF 32.5 GPH is the specification, I can already see why I am out of fuel. My injectors flow nearly 28 lb/hr @ 58 psi. At 32.5 gph x 6.073 lbs per gallon = 197.37 lb/hr / 8 injectors = 24.67 lbs/hr/PER INJECTOR. Makes sense that it would flow slightly more than the 23.5 lb/hr flow rate of the stock inejctors to keep a steady flow of fuel back to the tank even at WOT.

NAPA claims their replacement for the EP381 is 32.4 gal/hr @ 61 psi.

Our buddy at TBIChips.com claims the EP381 is 155 lphr, but that is over 40 gallons per hour.

Badassssss


In for videos

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 34blazer

Badassssss

In for videos

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I will get around to it someday soon. The video will not really do it justice. Despite the headers and high flow cats, the 22" magnaflow actually made the engine quieter at idle and the cam has less thump than the old 110* LSA cam that was in it before. With my horrible 30" tall tire, 3.73 gear, 2.48 1st gear, 2,200 rpm stall, 6,200 lbs setup its difficult to see the added power until the RPM really gets up and I am really not running it over 3,500 rpm at the moment with the fuel supply issue. Once rolling though it runs very nicely. No problem cruising 80-85 mph on the highway and from 30 mph or so gets there pretty quickly even at part-throttle.

So I think I know why the fuel pump is not pumping to capacity. Installed a new Delphi pump, same fuel issue. Checked the voltage at the pump and its only running 11 volts. Checked the charging system and it is only putting out 12.3V at the battery and only getting 11.8 volts to the underhood fuse block. I built my own hotwire relay kit that feeds directly off the fuse block and the pump now has 11.7 volts. I need to get the system up to 14.5 volts and check things again.

My 200a AD244 alternator is in my hands and I will have an overdrive pulley by the end of next week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fast355

So I think I know why the fuel pump is not pumping to capacity. Installed a new Delphi pump, same fuel issue. Checked the voltage at the pump and its only running 11 volts. Checked the charging system and it is only putting out 12.3V at the battery and only getting 11.8 volts to the underhood fuse block. I built my own hotwire relay kit that feeds directly off the fuse block and the pump now has 11.7 volts. I need to get the system up to 14.5 volts and check things again.

My 200a AD244 alternator is in my hands and I will have an overdrive pulley by the end of next week.

---

Only charging to 12.3 volts with only 11.7 volts getting to the pump sure would make a difference.
Glad you found that.

And yes, if you look in owners manual for a Ramjet 350-350hp, Ramjet 502-502hp/567lb/ft torque hp and the Ramjet ZL1(454 cubes)-510hp/493lb/ft torque it does state that the Vortec truck/van fuel pumps can be used.

There are some of these $100 pumps sold by Racetronics which is located an hour from me up here in Canada.
Here are the specs(90 gph/at 13.5volts@43psi)
From a post from the PPE truck site.
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11809

Pretty decent pump for $100, Aeromotive sells the exact same pump save for the "Aeromotive" name on it.

Here is the Racetronix part for sale
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=RXP369&eq=&Tp=
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xx
FEATURES:

Flows 340 Liter/Hr (90 US GPH) @ 43 PSI @ 13.5V *
In-tank use only / submersible design
Reliable and quiet turbine impeller
Can be used with EFI or carbureted applications
May be used in pulse modulated systems (PWM)
Center-inlet design. Same fitment as Walbro GSS340M, GSS307M and GSS294M pumps.
Each pump individually tested
For gasoline (use with E85 will reduce life expectancy)
Integral check-valve
Over-pressure safety bypass valve

MECHANICAL SPECS:

Weight: 355 grams / 0.783 lbs
Diameter: 38mm / 1.54" O.D.
Body: Black-plated steel with laser etching
Inlet: 22mm / 0.866" OD (non-tapered)
Outlet: 8mm / 0.315" (with barb)
PRV Activation: 90PSI nominal
Impeller design: Single-scroll hard-anodized aluminum turbine

ELECTRICAL SPECS:

Recommended operating voltage: 13.5 volts DC
Minimum operating voltage: 6 volts DC
Max operating voltage: 18 volts DC
Current draw @ 43.5PSI: 12 amps (13.5VDC)
Current draw @ 58.0PSI: 14 amps (13.5VDC)
Current draw @ 80.0PSI: 17 amps (13.5VDC)

NOTES:

REQUIRES UPGRADED IN-TANK AND EXTERNAL WIRING FOR PROPER OPERATION.

THIS PUMP IS SOLD WITHOUT ANY WIRING, FILTERS OR MOUNTS. SELECT THE PARTS YOU REQUIRE IN OUR WEB STORE BASED ON YOUR APPLICATION
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Something to think about. I remember seeing this being an application going wayu back into some of the TBI application up until 1997 in the trucks(1997 is the last year to use the older pump sending unit(1998+ truck use the plastic fuel bucket with jet pump to fill the bucket) with screw on fuel line fittings(1998+ use the Quick Connect fittings).

1997 and older Chev truck 1500 Vortec 350 Delco EP381 or GM p/2 25163473 is $71.00 from Rock Auto(no strainer)

1997 and back ACDELCO Part # FLS1034 CAD$208.49
or
DELCO Part # FLS1110 CAD$226.98
are the Delco fuel sending units. Take not that my computer shows Canadian Dollars, so prices in US dollars will ne lower.



Chev truck 1500 Vortec 350 Delco MU1745 or GM p/n 19177226, 25314321 GM Original Equipment; Pump & Level Sensor; w/ Internal Strainer $224 from Rock Auto


There are some weirdo year/model even engine size breaks between the 2 styles of pums/sending units.






peace
Hog





some weirdo year/model even engine size breaks between the 2 styles of pums/sending units.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hog

Only charging to 12.3 volts with only 11.7 volts getting to the pump sure would make a difference.
Glad you found that.

And yes, if you look in owners manual for a Ramjet 350-350hp, Ramjet 502-502hp/567lb/ft torque hp and the Ramjet ZL1(454 cubes)-510hp/493lb/ft torque it does state that the Vortec truck/van fuel pumps can be used.

There are some of these $100 pumps sold by Racetronics which is located an hour from me up here in Canada.
Here are the specs(90 gph/at 13.5volts@43psi)
From a post from the PPE truck site.
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11809

Pretty decent pump for $100, Aeromotive sells the exact same pump save for the "Aeromotive" name on it.

Here is the Racetronix part for sale
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=RXP369&eq=&Tp=
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xx
FEATURES:

Flows 340 Liter/Hr (90 US GPH) @ 43 PSI @ 13.5V *
In-tank use only / submersible design
Reliable and quiet turbine impeller
Can be used with EFI or carbureted applications
May be used in pulse modulated systems (PWM)
Center-inlet design. Same fitment as Walbro GSS340M, GSS307M and GSS294M pumps.
Each pump individually tested
For gasoline (use with E85 will reduce life expectancy)
Integral check-valve
Over-pressure safety bypass valve

MECHANICAL SPECS:

Weight: 355 grams / 0.783 lbs
Diameter: 38mm / 1.54" O.D.
Body: Black-plated steel with laser etching
Inlet: 22mm / 0.866" OD (non-tapered)
Outlet: 8mm / 0.315" (with barb)
PRV Activation: 90PSI nominal
Impeller design: Single-scroll hard-anodized aluminum turbine

ELECTRICAL SPECS:

Recommended operating voltage: 13.5 volts DC
Minimum operating voltage: 6 volts DC
Max operating voltage: 18 volts DC
Current draw @ 43.5PSI: 12 amps (13.5VDC)
Current draw @ 58.0PSI: 14 amps (13.5VDC)
Current draw @ 80.0PSI: 17 amps (13.5VDC)

NOTES:

REQUIRES UPGRADED IN-TANK AND EXTERNAL WIRING FOR PROPER OPERATION.

THIS PUMP IS SOLD WITHOUT ANY WIRING, FILTERS OR MOUNTS. SELECT THE PARTS YOU REQUIRE IN OUR WEB STORE BASED ON YOUR APPLICATION
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Something to think about. I remember seeing this being an application going wayu back into some of the TBI application up until 1997 in the trucks(1997 is the last year to use the older pump sending unit(1998+ truck use the plastic fuel bucket with jet pump to fill the bucket) with screw on fuel line fittings(1998+ use the Quick Connect fittings).

1997 and older Chev truck 1500 Vortec 350 Delco EP381 or GM p/2 25163473 is $71.00 from Rock Auto(no strainer)

1997 and back ACDELCO Part # FLS1034 CAD$208.49
or
DELCO Part # FLS1110 CAD$226.98
are the Delco fuel sending units. Take not that my computer shows Canadian Dollars, so prices in US dollars will ne lower.



Chev truck 1500 Vortec 350 Delco MU1745 or GM p/n 19177226, 25314321 GM Original Equipment; Pump & Level Sensor; w/ Internal Strainer $224 from Rock Auto


There are some weirdo year/model even engine size breaks between the 2 styles of pums/sending units.






peace
Hog





some weirdo year/model even engine size breaks between the 2 styles of pums/sending units.

---

Thanks Hog! The 97 Express has the plastic sump style sending unit with the venturi setup and has quick connects. I plan to replace all the plastic line with AN stainless hoses soon.

AD-244 is on
Ok here we go....AD-244 200a and matching CS-130 style connector.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps0jpznb5y.jpg

Removing the 16 year old CS-144
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psaisuyz7c.jpg

Discovered something during teardown. The grey connector is actually a factory conversion harness for a CS-130 to CS-144. MY Express harness was already setup for a CS-130 from the factory.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psasgb52sv.jpg

I loosened the alternator bracket from the head to allow clearance to remove the CS-144s rear brace. After fighting the sliding bushings on the mount and hooking up the charging wire it slipped into place and bolted right up.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps68ztqnnc.jpg

I took the opportunity to slip a new stock belt on it and tossed the old one in a small box I have under my back seat. Never hurts to have a spare in the middle of nowhere USA.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psnnrif1q4.jpg

Stock CS-130 harness connector plugged righ into the AD-244

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...pslthgn3ni.jpg

Fired her up and turned everything on.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psp3yq3z8k.jpg

After the cooling fans tripped to high speed I measured the voltage getting to the battery.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps1tinijod.jpg

Boxed up and kept my old CS-144 alternator and unused mounting parts.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psajvv8z66.jpg

Found this little test slip in the paperwork.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psxlyaabhl.jpg

On a side note the engine is running better than ever and my 4 Hi headlights are brighter than they have been Iin years even before the E-fans.

I ran and picked up food and noticed the a/c blows hard even at idle and ice cold even at idle.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...psfxsqjcap.jpg

I have this nice new $25.00 connector I can return to Napa.

On a side note I picked up a oe roller style Lunati cam on their closeout for $70.00 + shipping.

276/286 @ .006, 218/228 @ .050, .503/.503 w 1.5 rocker, 112° lsa, 108° icl. I am debating yet another cam swap. The 215/220 on a 114 lsa idles too much like a stocker. Might nudge me closer to 400 rwhp too.

I got into hard tonight and it pulled hard all the way up to 55 mph in 1st and got a little sideways going into 2nd.

You go by fast4.7 on hpt dont you........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mecanicman

You go by fast4.7 on hpt dont you........

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Yes I do! Thank you for the HPT fan help by the way. One small pair of resistors and the a/c and fans work great without adding an extra port and pressure transducer.