Buy LS Flash equipment or just pay to have it done?

Been looking at the cost associated with LS swaps into hotrods and it appears that the industry basically controls the cost of programming the PCM.

Not looking to performance tune the swap, just disable features like VATS, EGR, EVAP so the streetrod can be driven, correct VIN is not required since they aren’t plugged in for inspections etc.

Not mentioning any specific company but I would need to buy a programmer, software and hardware for about $500, then buy a license ($100) for each PCM to be modified? If you purchase the unlimited license option for about $3000 you can then program the entire neighborhood for free:-)

With these cost numbers…it appears that for the occasional backyard LS swapper.. wouldn’t it be more practical to just pay to have the PCM re-flashed? I see guys offering the service for under $100 with shipping.

Thanks

It's always challenging to make a specialty tool purchase. My tool box has several tools I've only used once, or maybe used only a few times. I'm sure I made some sort of specialty tool purchase justification ... well if I hired someone to do the job this tool can do, it would cost more than the cost of the tool. So in that case, it was likely a good use of the money, even if I only used the tool once.

Several years ago, I purchased a used EFI Live V2 system on Ebay for about $600. I've purchased a few licenses since that time, and made a few $$$ re-flashing some PCM's. EFI Live is more than just a flashing tool, it can do data logging and has AutoVE Tuning. Although AutoVE Tuning is not Dyno Tuning, most LS projects will see huge benefits from AutoVE Tuning. Prices / fees vary for AutoVE Tuning, but most of the time AutoVE Tuning is about 1/2 the cost of a Dyno Tune. I would say, there is not a realistic profit potential / pay back in only re-flashing PCM with EFI Live V2 on a per / pcm / license. I would say there is a profit potential / pay back with an EFI Live V2 System when doing a re-flash and AutoVE Tuning service. The EFI Live V2 system / tool is like many other tools in the tool box, knowledge and understanding how to use the tool is very important if you want to tool to pay for itself / or profit using the tool. If you like the idea of going to a "Show & Shine" car gathering and just looking at the "Shine" then getting the PCM flashed by someone else might make sense. If you like the idea "Burning Rubber" at a car gathering, then maybe Flashing and Tuning your own PCM / other PCM's might make sense.

dave w

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Originally Posted by EDZIP

wouldn’t it be more practical to just pay to have the PCM re-flashed? I see guys offering the service for under $100 with shipping.

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this is likely a very intentional effect. small, smart, experienced userbase = very little support required to keep everybody who is using the software/hardware happy.

If you look at the true total cost of drivetrain conversion project (limited scope of work) or even a full build (significant scope of work), the cost of a professional custom tune is a very small portion of the total cost. However, a quality custom tune will dramatically change the driving experience for the owner of the custom vehicle / Hot Rod.

A significant portion of my business is "correcting" mail order tunes, or those done by a friend, or some other quasi-professional. I should send them all Christmas cards, because their ineptitude generates revenue and new customers for me.

What most people fail to realize is that even if the LSx engine being transplanted is left 100% stock, unless you also install the stock air intake and exhaust system, you will have altered the airflow model the calibration was based on - which necessitates a custom tune.

The stock tune in a Gen III PCMs can often compensate for this - but only if the limit of the STFT is not exceeded, while the LTFT are being updated by the calibration. A PCM with a stock tune cannot compensate for a camshaft upgrade.

The Gen IV controllers are not so forgiving. Install a cold air intake on a Trailblazer SS and odds are a lean DTC will set. It is simple fix - the MAF calibration needs to be updated to reflect the new airflow model created by the cold air intake.

The above was just a little background for you to consider .....

To answer your question - which is the better option, to tune the vehicle yourself or to have someone else tune it for you ? The answer really depends on two things - do you have the time and capacity to learn how to do this task ? (it is not for everyone), and how many vehicles do you reasonably intend on converting / building / etc ?

If you think this is a skill that you can reasonably acquire, and would complete at least 10 of these projects - then doing it yourself becomes increasingly cost effective. Don't forget, that in addition to the tuning software you will also require a WBO (wide band oxygen sensor) - which adds to the DIY cost.

A mail order tune costing $100 in total will be done by someone working out of their home, and odds are they will do a very low volume of these. This means they lack real world or hands on experience. With someone like this, you will get exactly what you pay for.

My two cents - if you are going to offer conversion services, either learn to tune these yourself, or find a reputable local tuner - one that will come to your shop, or even to your customers home if need be.

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Originally Posted by EDZIP

Not mentioning any specific company but I would need to buy a programmer, software and hardware for about $500, then buy a license ($100) for each PCM to be modified? If you purchase the unlimited license option for about $3000 you can then program the entire neighborhood for free:-)

With these cost numbers…it appears that for the occasional backyard LS swapper.. wouldn’t it be more practical to just pay to have the PCM re-flashed? I see guys offering the service for under $100 with shipping.

Thanks

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Not mentioning any specific company(lol), but you can buy a complete package for $499 that will do everything you need and comes with the ability to do 4 vehicles out of the box. Each additional vehicle is $100, so there is the cost of your mail order tune. There is a learning curve with any software, but you could do what you mentioned with this one as easy as any.

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Originally Posted by Buzz

A significant portion of my business is "correcting" mail order tunes, or those done by a friend, or some other quasi-professional. I should send them all Christmas cards, because their ineptitude generates revenue and new customers for me.

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HAHAHAHA, this is so very true. I get a lot of business this way too.

Thanks guys...looks like the short answer is "either go all the way..or not at all". So I'll just have the PCM's flashed.

Was simply hoping to just get the cars up and running and let the guys get a final tune once the car hits the road. None of us guys are into tire burning and the current lack of need for LS tuning around here (rural) kinda makes the initial $ layout not the best investment "at this time".