help with vortec and 4l80 swap please

so im new to the whole tuning stuff and everything and would like to learn more.
im going to be starting on a swap in the next month or so i have a 1987 v20 chevy pickup with a tbi350 that im redoing. im doing a vortec head swap on it and a 4l80 swap too. i have a complete 1992 chevy with the 4l80. so what my plan is is to take the computer, wiring, tranny and anything else ill need to make it work.
im just uncertain on how to make it work and what im going to have to change
the computer in the 87 is a 7747. im not sure what it is in the 1992 since i havent torn it apart yet.
also what kind of tuning stuff should i get? ive been looking at the moates website but not sure what to buy forsure

would i be better off keeping my 7747 to control the motor and making my computer from the 1992 a standalone or swap and make it all work off the 1992 computer.
also would the apu1 setup from moates be a good idea/ investment to buy?

The APU1 is an option, I decided on the Ostrich 2.0 emulator which eliminates the need for a chip.

dave w

ill have to try and check tomorrow and see what computer is in my parts truck. i dont think there wiring harness would work since i have one of the first gen 4l80's
what else would i need to get to be able to use the ostrich? just the cables or does it come with them?
im just trying to gather as much info on the swap before i dive head first into it

I installed my Ostrich 2.0 with a Moates.net G1 memory adapter board.

dave w

okay sweet and i went out a little bit ago and got the number off the parts truck ecm and its a '7060
ill look into getting the ostrich then, its a bit cheaper too it looks like

The '7060 TBI system can work for your project. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-85

dave w

so im hoping i can start getting the 4l80 out either tomorrow after work or saturday have to break the pressure washer out and give the underside and motor a deep cleaning first since its covered in oil and tranny fluid from a t case leak.
ive been doing some more research. and since it is a 1992 4l80 and it has all three sensors the TISS TOSS and vss or whatever it is in the t case im wondering if ill be able to bypass the one on the t-case since i have a np208 mounting up to the 4l80 with the cable speedo,

If you have no tuning equipment and can afford to get the APU1, get it, it's worth it. The price comes out to less than buying the Ostrich 2.0, ALDU1, Burn2 and the Tuner Pro licence, PLUS you get the 3 additional analog inputs that you can't get with the separates route. These inputs can be used for WBO2 logging or other sensors or switches that are working on a 0-5V scale. The ADX does require some editing, if one has not already been set-up.

Take a look at swapping the '7060 to the '7427 (or other variants of the '7427), since there are larger VE and spark tables, along with some other improvements. The '7060 will be fine in most stock or stock like applications, where the RPM range will not be much higher that 4000 RPM. I'm suggesting the upgrade, because a friend has a car that currently has a '7060, and while his is more of a performance build on a 455 Olds, we have run out of VE table which is causing us an issue right around the 5200 RPM point, so we're swapping his car to a '7427.

It would also be better IMO to use a single ECM to run both the engine and trans, since it will do it. The only time I would suggest going to multiple ECMs is if you were going MPFI AND/OR boost. The TBI PCMs can't do anything with boost, at least not accurately. FWIW, the '7427 has the ability to run MPFI, with some mods.

The PCM will need a speed (VSS) input to run correctly. You can get a cable drive VSS (Painless is one supplier) to have both cable and the VSS signal to the PCM. However, the Painless VSS is not a 40 tooth wheel, so you will have to wire it differently than the stock system is, bypassing the DRAC. You could also make a 40 tooth wheel that goes on the output of the transfer case.

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Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

If you have no tuning equipment and can afford to get the APU1, get it, it's worth it. The price comes out to less than buying the Ostrich 2.0, ALDU1, Burn2 and the Tuner Pro licence, PLUS you get the 3 additional analog inputs that you can't get with the separates route. These inputs can be used for WBO2 logging or other sensors or switches that are working on a 0-5V scale. The ADX does require some editing, if one has not already been set-up.

Take a look at swapping the '7060 to the '7427 (or other variants of the '7427), since there are larger VE and spark tables, along with some other improvements. The '7060 will be fine in most stock or stock like applications, where the RPM range will not be much higher that 4000 RPM. I'm suggesting the upgrade, because a friend has a car that currently has a '7060, and while his is more of a performance build on a 455 Olds, we have run out of VE table which is causing us an issue right around the 5200 RPM point, so we're swapping his car to a '7427.

It would also be better IMO to use a single ECM to run both the engine and trans, since it will do it. The only time I would suggest going to multiple ECMs is if you were going MPFI AND/OR boost. The TBI PCMs can't do anything with boost, at least not accurately. FWIW, the '7427 has the ability to run MPFI, with some mods.

The PCM will need a speed (VSS) input to run correctly. You can get a cable drive VSS (Painless is one supplier) to have both cable and the VSS signal to the PCM. However, the Painless VSS is not a 40 tooth wheel, so you will have to wire it differently than the stock system is, bypassing the DRAC. You could also make a 40 tooth wheel that goes on the output of the transfer case.

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i dont really plan on having the thing wound out past 4000, and if it is it would only be on a hard acceleration for a couple seconds pulling a trailer or something heavy on the bed. i dont even think my 6.0 sees anything over 4k often in my 2002
also from the few threads ive found they have said that you can make the rear trans sensor work like the vss, or is that not possible? it just makes the computer think its a 2wd, plus i dont use 4 low very often, if at all. its kinda hard to find more info about it since most people are usuing the 94+ 4l80s which dont have the rear sensor on the 4wd cases.
i thought i seen somewhere someone say you cant or shouldnt run the force motor in the first gen 4l80s with different computers since the 7060 has the cleaning cycles for the bosch force motor.

also about the 7060 im really only planning on running the vortec heads without any other motor mods. maybe a cam in the future but ill see how it works with the cam in the motor first. do you think the ve and spark tables will be sufficient for it? it wont be a high performance motor just trying to have a decent motor tranny combo in a square body with fuel injection reliability and a overdrive auto. plus its nicer to be able to make things work that you already have.
if i do more to the motor in the future then id forsure think about upgrading to a 7427.

with the ostrich vs apu1 part isnt the benefit of the ostrich the part of being able to just upload a tune onto the ostrich and keep the ostrich plugged into the pcm?
im still up in the air on either kit or other recommended kits

that 455 has gotta be almost topped out at 5200 rpms, thats kinda up there for a big block :rockon:
thanks for the help so far

Yeah if you don't plan to really push past 4000 RPM, the '7060 will be fine.

That's a myth about the cleaning cycle, and being bad to run an older trans on a newer PCM, because guess what? that cleaning cycle only happens when in park for an extended period of time. I've discussed this at length with the friend of mine who has the Olds, since it's backed by a 4L80E and he's a nut that will just research the shit out things and has found that there's a lot of myths floating around based on partial truths.

Like I said with the VSS, you would be bypassing the DRAC, and wiring the VSS directly to the PCM, but I believe there's a flag that needs to be flipped for that to work correctly. I don't recall if the '7060 requires any changes for that for sure.

You can use the APU1 exactly like an Ostrich. I own both, actually I own several Ostriches (4 I think) and one APU1. I like both, but if I had to reduce my collection, I'd keep the APU1 and sell the rest. It can be left in the car just like an Ostrich, it's a single cable system for both emulating and datalogging, and as I said has those extra channels for datalogging. The only issue I have ever found with the APU1 is that it doesn't play well with a completely stock $58 mask (Syclone/Typhoon/Turbo Sunbird), but there's a patch that can make it work correctly for that too.

I use(d) the Ostrich in my car simply because I had a Tunerview II that would allow me to also datalog through it, so it made more sense to use an Ostrich for that, than an APU1. If I didn't have the Tunerview II I'd likely have used the APU1 instead.

The other way to look at it is if you're not planning on doing any tuning for a while, you can program an EEPROM with the APU1 and just run off the EEPROM for that period until you want to get back to tuning, that's the great thing about the APU1 everything is built into one unit.

The 455 revs to 5800, only because that's where we set the limiter. It's spec'd to rev to 6500 or so, but as a buffer. We're just having a slight issue around the 5200 RPM spot that I can't tune out, because then it effects everything between 4000 RPM and that spot and then above again. This is why we're swapping to a '7427 to get more finite tuning ability.

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you can make the rear trans sensor work like the vss

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Another member here described how GM was able to remove the TOSS sensor in later trucks and only use the VSS. The computer uses the VSS to calculate a fake TOSS signal. In low range the computer uses the transfer case gear ratio to calculate the signal. I think someone with some code knowledge could do the same in reverse.

Interesting about the cleaning cycle part, and thanks for clearing up the differences between the apu1 and ostrich, I'll most likely go with the apu1 then and once I get the tranny switched and the truck put back together I guess I'll figure out what I will need to do with the vss,

I think I had found that thread about the sensors 1project2many that's when i kinda remember someone on another forum when I was searching talking about just using the Toss as the vss or something and making the computer just think it's a 2wd.

First thing in the morning Imma break the pressure washer out aND get the parts truck degreased then my buddy should be coming over to help get the heavy 4l80 dropped out of the truck then I can get it cleaned up the rest of the way, hopefully have it mounted in the 87 by Sunday Then next week I'll start getting the wiring and computer pulled out of the donor

So got the tranny all cleaned up Saturday and ready to go.
Last night I got the wiring harness out of the 92 donor
How much of the other wiring in the cab besides the main harness am I going to need?
There's a little grey box thing with a circuit board in it and another one that's black that are connected to the harness. The grey one is taped to the harness and the black one clips to the bottom side of the computer mount. You guys know what there for? I should've grabbed a picture last night when I was working on it

And can I eliminate the wiring from the abs and egr without any problems? Other then just some computer time once it is running.

The grey box is a diode module. Can't remember exactly when it's used but it relates to 4wd I believe. Not sure on the black box, maybe hot fuel module. Post picture.