Help with marine 3.0 mercruiser tbi project

[4x4toys]

Hi, starting to gather info on a project I would like to complete this fall season.
I have a 2000 Bayliner Capri bowrider, it has the same year 3.0l mercruiser 4 cylinder. basically it is a stroked version of the 2.5l iron duke engine.
I would like to build a TBI system for it that would be as close as possible to Coast Guard Specs.

This engine already has the GM small cap EST distributor, one less thing to source.
I would like to find an under hood style ECM that will suit the requirements of my small displacement engine with a small cfm throttle body.
Also closed loop would be a plus, I have a good idea of where to mount the HO2 sensor so this should be possible.
So, This will be my first home made system.
Can't wait to get started. Thanks :rockon:

[96lt4c4]

I did this to a 1990 Glastron 19 foot with a 305 in it. Used the 7427 PCM running in open loop. Never got around to trying to get the 02 sensors to work. I also installed a GM LT4 Roller cam and ported the heads. The block was a roller block with a flat tapet cam, I put all the OEM roller stuff in. The boat would fly, almost 60 MPH with just me in it. It was almost dangerous! Let me see If I can dig up some pictures. It was a cool project.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1427.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1433.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1435.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1333.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1444.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1698.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1697.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1702.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/CIMG1436.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/th_MPFIboat.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/?action=view&current=MPFIboat.mp4)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/th_305BoatMPFI.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/Convert%20Boat%20to%20EFI/?action=view&current=305BoatMPFI.mp4)

[EagleMark]

Dude, that is sweeet! You've been holding out on us...

What's it reving to now? Change the prop, you can go faster! :laugh:

[96lt4c4]

Dude, that is sweeet! You've been holding out on us...

What's it reving to now? Change the prop, you can go faster! :laugh:

LOL....Boat is long gone, wish I still had it though. I pulled everything back off before I sold it and put it back stock. I did change the prop out to get more top end but it would not pull as good out of the hole with a tube or skier.

[1project2many]

basically it is a stroked version of the 2.5l iron duke engine.
Haha... except that everything's just a little different. I spent a summer trying to chase down a set of connecting rods from a 3.0 for an engine build. What a lot of misinformation there is out there.

There is a 2.5 powered Lumina which used an underhood ecm. 90-91 was TBI although it used the "model 700" TBI which has a fairly small diameter bore. For the easiest swap I'd probably use that calibration as a starting point.

Depending on what the intake configuration is you might be able to use the manifold and TB from an 81-85 2.5 which uses a larger TB (model 400??). At a minimum i'd probably spend a little time looking for a marinized TB or consider doing things like making a brass TB shaft and installing stainless screws to slow corrosion. I've seen TB's rust up pretty good from a couple of years exposure to moisture in a basement or junkyard.

Fuel handling might be an issue. Many of the Mercruiser systems used a mechanical carb type pump to a reservoir. The reservoir has a float to regulate incoming fuel from the tank, and contains the high pressure pump along with a vapor purge line. Hot fuel returning from the engine is directed to the reservoir to prevent heating of the fuel in the tank. You don't want to deal with vapor from a large amount of fuel if possible. In other applications Merc used a "fuel module" or "fuel cooler" which routed fresh water around returning fuel for cooling. This might be the less expensive solution if you can't find that remote reservoir but then you'll need proper baffles in the tank along with an EFI capable pump which meets coast guard approval.

If you want to get a little more involved you can use one of the in-car ecms mounted in a box like pictured above, install a TB from a 2.8, 3.0 or even the 4.3, select the appropriate sized injectors, and run on a modified V8 calibration. Boats are fairly easy to tune as they idle and run WOT most of the time. What they don't do is experience rapid throttle changes and extreme loads (30 mph in 5th gear uphill for example).

Good luck, sounds like a fun project.

[EagleMark]

And be a good captain during the whole procedure and after. Before starting an inboard boat open engine cover because you want to check oil right? Wrong, it's because you want to stick your nose in the hull and smell for fuel! Then turn blower on for a few minutes, I used to stick my nose at blower vent to smell for fuel too.

Fuel vapors sink, no big deal on a car they just blow away on ground. In a boat they collect in the hull, under the floor boards! Ever seen a boats floors, seats, coolers, fishing equipment, coolers etc... all over the dock and water? = bad captain... no not me! But we have SO many lakes and boats up here and such a short boating season we have a couple blow up each year...

[cmaje72]

Cool project! I have a 3.0 merc in my little 17' Sea Ray. It runs pretty good on the carb though....not sure I need to add more electronic components.

[4x4toys]

96lt4c4, how did you deal with the returned fuel to the tank? From what I have found is that returning fuel to the tank is not a good idea. Although I have worked on some large speed boats that had very large, 600 plus cubic inch, blown and efi fuel systems that returned to the fuel tank. My main issue is the safety of this vessel after this is completed. I regards to the under hood ecm, is there a part number I should be looking for? I don't think I have ever seen a Lumina with a 2.5l, so that maybe hard to find. If I had a part number I could keep an eye out for one on flea-bay. I believe I have a wire harness and tbi from an s10 stashed somewhere. No ecm though.
By the way that was a clean install on the Glastron.

[EagleMark]

96lt4c4, how did you deal with the returned fuel to the tank?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120746972043?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

[1project2many]

Returning fuel should be brought in below the fuel level to prevent splashing. Keep the fuel cool and you shouldn't have huge amounts of trouble. If possible, use a vapor purge line back to the spark arrestor to catch anything vented when the cooler isn't able to work.

This page should give you a good start on finding the right ecm and calibration.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/BCCFind/resultT.shtml?BCC=2.5+7727

[EagleMark]

That's really hard to get fuel to return below fuel level in any boat I have worked on, they have plastic tanks... I don't think I would attempt a fitting below fuel level?

Of course your right, but I have used that inline fitting above many times in cars and boats...

[JeepsAndGuns]

Could you not simply add a charcoal canister to catch fuel vapors?

[EagleMark]

I remember learning what the charcaol canister purpose was 20 or so years ago in school but forget? It was an emmision device that did not hurt performance, although does have some effect on tuning EFI when motor gets a blast of fumes. End result is the vapor goes into intake. Collecting fuel vapor/hydrocarbons anywhere in a boat does not sound like a good thing. Been awile since I've done boats I forget what is done to vent tank?

[96lt4c4]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120746972043?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648


Simple, this is exactally what I did, I plumbed the return into the fuel fill tube. The fuel vapors are next to nothing with the EFI. Not like a carb. I never smelt any fuel at all.

[96lt4c4]

Make sure you use EFI rubber hose and EFI style hose clamps, they are different then regular stuff. Also double check for leaks. You do not want to go boom!

[Six_Shooter]

That's really hard to get fuel to return below fuel level in any boat I have worked on, they have plastic tanks... I don't think I would attempt a fitting below fuel level?

Of course your right, but I have used that inline fitting above many times in cars and boats...

Getting fuel return below the fuel level is not hard at all, even in a plastic tank.

The '71 truck has a plastic fuel cell, when I swapped to EFI, I drilled a hole high in the tank, to avoid any leaks. I used a bulkhead fitting for -6 tubing. Inside the tank I added an extension, that had a 90* bend in it and ended the tube about 1/2" from the bottom of the tank.

In my boss' '62 Suburban, when I swapped it to EFI, I added a return tube to the sending unit, that extended down and was attached to the side of the pick up tube. This one also ended near the bottom of the tank.

[EagleMark]

Although in theory dropping fuel into fuel isn't right, dropping it below fuel is better. But many times I have returned to drop from top of tank into fuel with no issues.

My sons IH conversion is one. The tank was so short we could not get an intank pump in. 7 inches top to bottom so had to be external pump. Fuel sender was so small we could not get a return in it so found a fuel cell Earls AN 90 degree fitting with plastic washers to mount in top of tank. The stock 1972 IH tank is 19 gallons and 7 inches high and almost 4 foot long! Also has baffles surrounding fuel pick up. So we dropped the return fuel into baffled tank as far away from pickup as possible. No issues...

[96lt4c4]

Its a little different in a boat, the gas tank is under the floor. In most boats you would have to rip the floor up the get to the tank. Mine had a small round panel that you could remove to get the top of the tank where the hoses connect and thats about it.

[4x4toys]

Well I sold the boat shortly after posting this thread last year.

I now have a new project I am doing research on, 1961 Chevy C60 with a 261 Inline six I want to convert to TBI.

[1project2many]

That would be neat. Is the 261 a splash oiler?

[4x4toys]

That would be neat. Is the 261 a splash oiler?

No, this is what is considered the 2nd generation GM inline six. It has has full pressure oiling and full flow oil filter. I dont think too many of the 1st gen engines with no oil pump survived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_straight-6_engine#Second_generation

I will start a new thread when I get closer to building the system. I need an ECU, throttle body and external fuel pump.