GearHead-EFI OBDII Tuning Forum

[EagleMark]

FLASH! Instead of burn...

Time to expand! :happy:

Just ordered my Moates RoadRunner, TunerCat OBDII Tuning Software and cable, figured we could see how many are into the newer stuff?

Any suggestions welcome! As we progress we will start a OBDII calibration collection and help each other as we always have.

[dave w]

I took the $$$ plunge into EFI Live about a year and half ago. I'm thinking most members will avoid the expense of OBDII software because of the cost? I keep hoping someone, will provide a low cost "Flash" software for OBDII.

dave w

[RobertISaar]

give it time.... i mean, it's been 16 years since OBD2 was introduced, but at one point in time, there were low-cost and free OBD2 tuning options, a lot of which were more or less open source.... but then companies started basically copy/pasting, adding in a couple of small features, and we get to where we are today.

there is good stuff on the horizon.... if you know where to look. :D

[EagleMark]

there is good stuff on the horizon.... if you know where to look. :DI've been waiting for the horizon and helping the horizon, but I turned down more OBDII work last month then I had OBDI work... agian... :rolleye:

In the long run I wanted to avoid the high cost of per vehicle license. But there's still only scan tool data for now. Can't find a good alternative for data logging OBDII.

How does the EFI Live Scan work? Will it do all OBDII GM stuff or is it a per vehicle thing too?

I'm also passing on the 96 LT1 Z28. Looking for 1998 up LS1 Z28 or another LS1 type vehicle. Man am I going to be broke... :laugh:

[dave w]

How does the EFI Live Scan work? Will it do all OBDII GM stuff or is it a per vehicle thing too?

I've been able to scan / data log several GM's OBDII vehicles, very similar to the way TunerPro RT scan / data logs. I'm using EFI Live Flash Scan V2 http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:flashscan&catid=33:general-contect

dave w

[EagleMark]

So is the FlashScan data really worth $499 ? Ouch... OH! I remember a guy gave me EFI live once.... :innocent2: I wonder if.... no I don't have the cable, just the software...

[JeepsAndGuns]

Yea the super high price of obd2 stuff is whats keeping me from using it. Otherwise I would probably be swapping a 411 pcm into my wrangler instead of a 7727. Probably would be looking into a crank trigger and swap my cherokee to the 411 too, if tuning it wasnt so dang blasted expensive. Can we say sequencial and CNP ignition! Just wish the 411 would support CNP ignition in a 6cyl.

[dave w]

So is the FlashScan data really worth $499 ? Ouch... OH! I remember a guy gave me EFI live once.... :innocent2: I wonder if.... no I don't have the cable, just the software...

I haven't used my V2 that often, it's mostly been a high priced tool that doesn't get used much. (BTW I got my EFI Live system used off Ebay at about a 35% savings) My current business model, requires me to make the $125 EFI Live license fee non-refundable... Ouch! There is a small market for custom programming street rod / hot rod / off-road applications where the non-refundable license fee is tolerated. There is a small market for a complete stand-alone Road Runner system, including custom wiring harness. My SBC O411 PCM project has generated interest and new business. The price of a decent used LSx engine is affordable compared to a re-built roller SBC. If you invest the time to build a "Hear it Run" LSx engine on a stand with the Road Runner, you will attact a very different kind customer with a very different budget! A customer with "Steak Dinner" on his mind not a "Fast Food Drive Thru"! The kind of customers who don't get their hands dirty, but know and PAY people that will get their hands dirty!

dave w

[cmaje72]

I have a bunch of .bin and .cal (tunercat) that I have been collecting. Let me know where you want them uploaded.

[PJG1173]

I too have been wanting to get into the ODB2 stuff but is too $$$ right now. maybe when I put an LS1 in my toyota i can justify spending the money or someone will have something open source by then.

[EagleMark]

I have a bunch of .bin and .cal (tunercat) that I have been collecting. Let me know where you want them uploaded.I guess we could start a thread in this forum? I too have collected a bunch. I guess it will end up like the OBDI section, tons of stuff and... *work in progress*

[JeepsAndGuns]

There are already xdf's for the 411 for TPRTv5. I downloaded a zip file on here that had them in it. (talk about overwhelming ammounts of parameters!)
So if the xdf's have already been made, whats the biggest reason the DIY people arnt using this more? Is it just a lack of a program to DL and reflash the pcm? I just havent been able to understand the whole per vehicle license thing on the software that is currently avalable, other than a way for the company to continue to make you pay for something you have already paid for.

[RobertISaar]

lack of program to up/download + lack of cable to do so.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I thought it was done through the ALDL plug?
If people can hac bins, write xdf's, adx's, and someone made a program as uber nice as tunerpro, then I'm sure its only a matter of time before someone makes a program to up and download/flash them, thats afordable, if not freeware.

[RobertISaar]

yeah, it's done through the data link connector, but you need a somewhat beefy processor in the cable to translate stuff between USB and the comm protocall used by the PCM.

the thread on TGO for the 0411 mentions that Dimented24x7 knows someone who is working on something like a command line (DOS) based programming solution, but i have no idea on what kind of cable is required.

[EagleMark]

Cables are available, but software is not.

http://www.avt-hq.com/price.htm

[RobertISaar]

holy hell, ~$900 cables?!

which one is used only for VPW? that's the protocall that most GM stuff used until moving to CAN.

[EagleMark]

Last I looked they wer closer to $240 they are available, just ask for a price quote and pay the bill it will be shipped.

[RobertISaar]

the 852 will work with VPW and CAN, so that's what, 95% of what everyone here would want to play with?


Available to industrial customers and as an OEM unit only.

so...... what would have to happen for a bunch of enthusiasts to try and qualify as either of those?

otherwise, the cheapest unit is like $230, with an extra $15 for some add-on A/D channels (and that seems like an EXCELLENT deal considering what it could be used for)

as for reverse engineering.....

http://www.avt-hq.com/842_photos.htm

take a look at the bottom 2 pics. not gonna be easy.... interesting thing to note: the processor used looks to be a motorola(freescale) unit. can't read the exact part number though.

[Six_Shooter]

Mark, let me know how the RR/TC set-up is. I've had a number of people ask me lately about tuning OBD2 stuff.

If it wasn't for this craptastic "licence per vehicle/PCM/Enging family deal" I'd likely have bought OBD2 tuning equipment already. But at minimum $499 + more "licences" for each vehicle, it's sometimes hard for someone that wants the tuning done to understand why I'll be charging $400+ to tune their vehicle.

I like the idea of the RR/TC deal, even at over $2000 for unlimited vehicles, it's still WAY cheaper than EFI Live.

So if I understand it correctly, you can use the RR to get the tune, then flash the original PCM, that is not equipped with an RR, to send someone on their merry tuned way, is that correct?

[EagleMark]

So if I understand it correctly, you can use the RR to get the tune, then flash the original PCM, that is not equipped with an RR, to send someone on their merry tuned way, is that correct? Yes but only LS1 or modified other engines to run off the 411 PCM.

EFI Live is sweet, fairly easy for a rich guy with a newer car to play "let's melt my motor"! But I think for trying to make a buck the per license thing is ridiculas and cost of unlimited would even be a strain on a dyno facility, I've seen Dynos for same cost...

Data logging is the only obstacle, I think with new LS1 stuff for TunerPro and a good Scan Tool and experiance it can be done. But I'm still looking at EFI FlashScan for data logging as no license per vehicle. Covers all the cool GM SS stuff OBDII and more.

[romac55]

Exciting stuff to follow ; reminds me of the NASA space-folks prepping for their first Earth orbital flight. Lots of what-if's and how-bout's . Be safe...Bob.

[JP86SS]

There are already xdf's for the 411 for TPRTv5. I downloaded a zip file on here that had them in it. (talk about overwhelming ammounts of parameters!)
I'd like to know where so I can look at the PID request parameters.
I haven't seen that.
TIA,
Jp

[1project2many]

Should have a cable that does CAN as well as "old" GM OBDII. Without CAN you're starting out obsolete. :(

For older AVT cables there was software available to talk with cable, ping PCM, etc. I've been playing with a GM OBDII pcm that is not used in GM vehicle and looks like 7427 with extra connector. Aftermarket scantool talks with it but still haven't gotten response using pc. There was a freeware scantool developed for AVT VPN version which I have a copy of. Was a forum too, but IIRC it's not even found on internet archive.

Lessee...

Yep! UVScan. Forum was at "uvscanning.com" Software was on grandamgt.com and a couple other sites. Mebbe someone who's worked with it is still around? Or can come up with some Google caches to download?

[EagleMark]

I'll have to give that a try.

Been playing with ScanXL Pro w/GM enhanced PIDS. First impressions are WOW! Loads of custom PIDS for calculations.

http://www.palmerperformance.com/products/scanxlpro/index.php