hey guys

[droptopstng]

been sick and working alot and sick some more so havent been able to work with this truck project of mine in a while, however Mark has helped me with pieces of it in the past but we have kinda switched directions a little and need some assistance from more exprience here.
I have a zz383 in a 63 chevy truck with a victor jr intake and an accufab throttle body thats rated at 1000cfm and has a progessive 4 barrel setup to it...... now it does have fast burn heads but is there anyone here that may can help me with a startup tune just to get it to run and idle ???? thanks guys

[EagleMark]

Not without pictures?

























ECM/PCM may help too...

[dave w]

Not without pictures?
ECM/PCM may help too...

What he said X2!

dave w

[droptopstng]

THANKKKKKK YOUUUUUU everyone who has help me understand what little I have come to learn about this system.... I have finally got everything together and made a startup tune just by uneducated guess...lol
now if anyone could look at these data logs and see anything I would really appreciate it..... this truck runs pretty goo all in all ,,we finally got to run it a few miles today with no vss as we found a bad sensor this morning. it is an 8d 1227730 and here are the bin and xdl... thank you everyone in advance and IF I can help anyone please let me know

[dave w]

THANKKKKKK YOUUUUUU everyone who has help me understand what little I have come to learn about this system.... I have finally got everything together and made a startup tune just by uneducated guess...lol
now if anyone could look at these data logs and see anything I would really appreciate it..... this truck runs pretty goo all in all ,,we finally got to run it a few miles today with no vss as we found a bad sensor this morning. it is an 8d 1227730 and here are the bin and xdl... thank you everyone in advance and IF I can help anyone please let me know

Something WEIRD with the SA. I've never seen the SA max out like the "johns after i drove it.xdl" The WEIRD SA shows up in the history tables. The BLM's need tuning.

edit
Ok, I looked at the .bin file, it looks like to me the SA table is WAY WRONG!

dave w

[droptopstng]

kinda thought I had too much in there but it doesnt seem like it driving it and the plugs actually look decent but thats what I thought just dont know why its taking so much timing to get it to run but the only thing im not certain of is if the timing mark on the balancer is right... normally when I build a motors I degree and mark the balancer for true tdc but I didnt build this motor it is a crate motor somone else put in

[droptopstng]

I am also having an issue my adx will not show me history tables and im ignorant as to how to add that feature

[EagleMark]

Even if you take out the 20 bias the spark table is crazy? But max spark in bin set to 34? Base timing at 1? Log shows your in ALDL mode? Hitting 96 degrees advance? Unless your doing something with your XDF and ADX this is firing 2 cylinders off? How do BLMs look good?

[EagleMark]

This might be a good time to test JeepsandGuns new XDF and ADX...

[droptopstng]

Even if you take out the 20 bias the spark table is crazy? But max spark in bin set to 34? Base timing at 1? Log shows your in ALDL mode? Hitting 96 degrees advance? Unless your doing something with your XDF and ADX this is firing 2 cylinders off? How do BLMs look good?

I dont think any of it looks good Im just happy it is mobile but would like to get it right .I cant figure the whole history parts out so I am blind at best but it seems to actually run decent.. I did have to jack fueling up at start a bunch which I thought was odd and had to pour the timing to it to get the motor to wake up now I am still not really well versed on this gm stuff so please do tell if anyone can help...again thanks

[Six_Shooter]

Honestly, start with a bone stock bin, don't try and guess what you think the engine will need, the engine will tell you when you try to start it.

You'd be amazed at how well a stock bin will get an engine up and running.

The only things I generally do, is disable closed loop right off the bat, and set any scalers that may be drastically different from the original application to the new application, but I generally try to find something close to start with anyway. In your case, I would start with an $8D bin for a 5.7, with the same trans, and only disable closed loop.

When trying to start the engine, you will see if it's getting too much or not enough fuel, spark advance being enough or not, etc.

I find that when someone tries to "guess what an engine wants", they usually don't guess correctly, and then find that they have issues later trying to tune something out, forgetting that something they changed for the start tune.

[droptopstng]

thats where this started at and thats the point I have gotten too ....I was told this would never work I made it work maybe not right but I would like to get it a close to perfect as i can...I just went back and looked at the sa tables and they look crazy out there and dont know why at all....I added timing but like 12 degrees across the board...but thank you people for the help I never even caught the simple stuff...I downloaded the super 8d stuff ,is this something I should consider or not ?

[Six_Shooter]

....I was told this would never work

Yeah, like my Delco ECM running my turbo Nissan engine, or the Crossfire injected SBC with 4L60E in my Grandfather's '71 pick up, running off a late model TBI ECM, along with a few other projects.

[1project2many]

Did you set timing with the bypass line disconnected? It's like pulling the timing spout on a Ford. The engine should be able to run with the bypass disconnected as well. It won't run well, but it will run. I'd start with that, to make sure the distributor is in the right place and to be sure it's all wired correctly.

[droptopstng]

I did check with the est wire disconected but one thing that is not certain is if the timing marks are right,I am gonna carry a degree wheel with me tonight and check the marks to see if they are close but i will let you know

[EagleMark]

Even if right or wrong your bin is wrong.

I'm guessing that this is a huge cam by the idle in the 65 MAP area? With that set distributor to 10 degrees bypass wire disconnected, put 10 in distributotr base timing in bin for starters. Don't start till you work on bin

I don't know this mask inside out like others so need to find out what warm spark bias is, all I found was one and it is 20 degrees so everything in your timing table is 20 degrees off unless compenstated for in your XDF. We have found masks with both causing major issues if you don't know! That said you had 35 degrees for idle which is good for big cam idle maybe more! Then drop during accell! But with bias this could be 15 which is fine for a stock cam.

Now hitting 76+ degrees in timing table is not a good thing even with 20 degree bias. Some ADX data stream was showing 96 degree advance so something is wrong. I think the only thing that has saved you and caused you problems at this point is MAX timing was set to 34.

Super 8D XDF and ADX are great files, I've asked JeepsandGuns for the ones he has improved on so we can have a known set to work with. There are a lot of 8D files out there.

[EagleMark]

I had some time to look at this again and besides the spark advance issue your VE tables are stock? So how'd you get decent looking BLMs?

Here's the XDF and ADX JeepsandGuns was working on that I was reviewing your bin and data with. They have all the history tabls in there.

[droptopstng]

absolutely pure luck lol this is why I love this board.....honestly I dont know why it works but it works decent that is what I was saying originally is I didnt understand why it works but it does well at least decently but not great.... i checked the balancer marks and tdc was like 8 degrees off so moved the pointer and reset timing to marks suggested 10 degrees with est bypass disconnected ...but thats all I have done but it didnt seem to change much I am still confused why the timing tables are so up and down and where this thing is getting 90 degrees frombut thats why I am leannin on all of you fine people .....but seriously thanks to everyone for taking the time to help me

[EagleMark]

I'd start with my saved first bin, set "Initial spark advance" to 10 and fire it up. What are the cam specs @.050? What kind of vehicle is it in?

[droptopstng]

Even if right or wrong your bin is wrong.

I'm guessing that this is a huge cam by the idle in the 65 MAP area? With that set distributor to 10 degrees bypass wire disconnected, put 10 in distributotr base timing in bin for starters. Don't start till you work on bin

I don't know this mask inside out like others so need to find out what warm spark bias is, all I found was one and it is 20 degrees so everything in your timing table is 20 degrees off unless compenstated for in your XDF. We have found masks with both causing major issues if you don't know! That said you had 35 degrees for idle which is good for big cam idle maybe more! Then drop during accell! But with bias this could be 15 which is fine for a stock cam.

Now hitting 76+ degrees in timing table is not a good thing even with 20 degree bias. Some ADX data stream was showing 96 degree advance so something is wrong. I think the only thing that has saved you and caused you problems at this point is MAX timing was set to 34.

Super 8D XDF and ADX are great files, I've asked JeepsandGuns for the ones he has improved on so we can have a known set to work with. There are a lot of 8D files out there.
and yes pretty big cam and one other thing I just thought about I have the throttle blades opened a little too far at the minute but not sure that is causing any problems other than a 900 rpm idle

[droptopstng]

, 222°/230° @ .050", .509"/.528" lift, 112° center lobe and its in a 63 chevy truck with a 700r4 and a 9 inch rear on 20" tires with 355 gears and should wieght around 4800 with everything on it

[EagleMark]

Looking at the picture of motor... I'm guessing it's not stock... so cam specs, injector size, fuel pressure, cubic inch, estimated HP would be enough to get a starter chip! :yikes:

EDIT: That's not to bad a cam...

[droptopstng]

hahaha funny you say that ...it had a street and perf setup on it and when i gave them the cam specs they went uh that will never work lmao.... its a fast burn 383 crate motor with a ported huge single plane and a progressive secondary 1000cfm throttle body should be making close too 500 at the crank and it is temporarily on stock injectors just trying to get it running but we got a set of 36lbs waiting to go in and fuel is at 44

[EagleMark]

Here's a starter bin if you promise to check actual timing at timing marks and NO WOT!!!! Because you don't have near enough fuel. Should run and drive OK out of the box... 750 idle when warm, adjust throttle blades so there is a little IAC count when warm, check TPS voltage when done.

[Six_Shooter]

To get idle fueling in check, you may need to do what I've done on a friends car, forced less fuel to get idle down.

I did this this by reducing fuel, more than you would think at the area it wanted to idle at, which was like 900 RPM and 70 Kpa idle, so at the corresponding RPM and MAP I reduced fuel, even though it was already pretty decent on the WB, this forced idle to come down a bit, and kept reducing the cells to get idle stable, and in line. I eventually got idle down to around 600 RPM, but have since had to raise it to about 850 RPM, due to large intake runners and TBI, where fuel would come out of suspension, and sit in the intake, a quick rev would hang idle, until all excess fuel was burned off, then idle would return to normal. Raising idle also helped with a slight stumble coming off idle, when stabbed to WOT.

Don't worry about changing SA yet, get VE table close, before trying to add SA. Before adjusting SA table, verify crank timing, and that changes to SA table are seen at the crank with proper corresponding changes, use idle and say 1500 RPM to verify. Check timing mark against actual cylinder events, basically verify TDC.

[droptopstng]

guys thanks so much yall are more help than you know........if I can ever help any of you out with anything please let me know

[droptopstng]

guys thank you so much for all the help I have been fighting trying to get the adx to work but finally figured that out and actually got a log tonight for a few mins anyways and wanted to see if anyone could take a peek at it...thanks in advance and i did find timing issue and got it corrected........balancer tape in wrong spot go figure

[EagleMark]

Something is still wrong with data? Some looks right, some maybe and lots just not there. But you also have a code 51 prom error too...

[droptopstng]

not sure what could be the problem but as for theeprom error im using and ostrich 2.0 should i be setting checksum to AA and as for the data do you have any ideas what could be causing it because i do not have a clue

[droptopstng]

thanks by the way

[Six_Shooter]

Set mask ID to AA, to disable checksum, to use emulation.

[EagleMark]

Read above^^^^^^^^^^ and log some data.

Also have to check your 10K resistor as I think I saw ALDL mode, but not sure if any data was right... Did you start with the S_AUJP bin? If so you need the XDF and ADX as well.



not sure what could be the problem but as for theeprom error im using and ostrich 2.0 should i be setting checksum to AA and as for the data do you have any ideas what could be causing it because i do not have a clue