Its Love at first sight

[Motohead]

So a good friend has been working on a 1970 C-10 (Blue truck on the left) for a couple of years now. Full frame off resto new floors, bed, cab corrners,glass, interior, all new suspension & brake hardware. He had it running carbureted but has fallen in love with a chrome TPI and wants to get it to work on the 350/350 turbo that's in the truck. The TPI kit is from an early aftermarket company (out of business) located in Mena Arkansas called Street & Performance. it is a complete "Competition" kit with 1227165 ECU, MAP, distributor, wiring harness, inline fuel pump & relay it does not have wiring for ALDL connector or O2 sensor. For cruising it utilizes a multi position knob located in the cab for manual fuel adjustment. Our goal is to get this thing to run and idle on its own we want to add ALDL O2 ECT IAT and use the Moates stuff to program/datalog we are up for adding/re-pinning the ECU/wiring harness or using a different ECU whatever you guys think would work best.

A little more about the truck:
3:42 posi from a cammero He thinks it has a VSS sensor in the pumpkin
turbo 350 2800 stall
small block light boring 355 CID (donated by another friend who built it in high school)
iron heads 2.02.intake 1.95 exhaust
1.5 roller rockers
Cam is sort of a mystery were told its a factory "Pink" cam (whatever that means)purchased from GM in the early-mid seventies pulls around 14" vacuum lopy idle
long tube headers (not sure about the primary tube size)

I'm a ford guy with some Moates quarter horse/Binary editor experience tuning EEC IVs (I have 2 T-bird Super Coupes) but nothing on the GM side

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[In-Tech]

Hiya, cool project.
The '165 puter(86-89) can work but was intended to use a MAF. I would personally start with the later (90-92) tpi '7730 puter which is speed density. You'll have to mod the harness you have a bit. You might read up on that, I think you will be happier and easier to do.

[Motohead]

yea im reading the 165 also has data connection issues with the Moates stuff I'd rather avoid that so for a 7730 ill need to find different connectors https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/EjQAAMXQgb1RPrM4/s-l1600.jpg

[In-Tech]

Yes, make sure to get extra terminals.

[Motohead]

what about spark/timing will I need to find a crank trigger setup for the old 350 or can I use the existing distributor

IMG_3609.jpg (48.5 KB)

[tayto]

that "vss in the pumpkin" is most likely an speed sensor for 3 channel ABS setup, I don't think it will work for the ecm.

You don't need a crank trigger, it's batch fire so a gm ICM is fine. your dist will work, but I would personally run a small cap HEI vs the large cap. there are different latency settings depending on which distributor you use, so make sure you get that correct.

[dave w]

1990 - 92 Camaro TPI used Small Cap HEI
1990 - 91 Corvette TPI use the Large Cap HEI

Personal preference, I avoid Vette .bin files when possible.

The black 24 pin / 32 pin connectors 1227165 and 1227730 are the same (pinout are different), just a yellow connector is needed for a 1227165 to 1227730 upgrade.


dave w

[Fast355]

Hiya, cool project.
The '165 puter(86-89) can work but was intended to use a MAF. I would personally start with the later (90-92) tpi '7730 puter which is speed density. You'll have to mod the harness you have a bit. You might read up on that, I think you will be happier and easier to do.

I personally like the Australian $12P MAP code that runs in the 165 over the 7730 myself. It has been re-engineered to do alot of cool things. I have run a couple and never had a data issue.

[Fast355]

that "vss in the pumpkin" is most likely an speed sensor for 3 channel ABS setup, I don't think it will work for the ecm.

You don't need a crank trigger, it's batch fire so a gm ICM is fine. your dist will work, but I would personally run a small cap HEI vs the large cap. there are different latency settings depending on which distributor you use, so make sure you get that correct.

Personal preference here as well but I converted from the small cap to the large cap. The large cap proved to be more durable.

[Fast355]

Cam sounds like it is possibly a L82 cam. I ran one in a TBI 305 with ported TPI heads and was able to tune it to run very well. Not alot of low-speed power but ran extremely well with a 700r4 that had a 2,800 rpm converter and 3.73 gears.

[Six_Shooter]

I personally like the Australian $12P MAP code that runs in the 165 over the 7730 myself. It has been re-engineered to do alot of cool things. I have run a couple and never had a data issue.

I was going to suggest this as well.

Back to the original topic...

From what I've seen S&P did some pretty hacky shit to get TPIs to run on as few sensors as possible, which would work, but would not be optimal.

I'd start with a GM Bin or $12P as suggested above, if the '165 is going to be kept, which will work just fine.

The hardest part about switching to a '7730, which is also a good choice, there's some good code that will run on the '7730, but the hardest thing about that switch is to find a proper V8 MEMCAL, not just a modified V6 one. The knock filter is part of the MEMCAL and is specific to different engines. The modified V6 MEMCALs do work, but the knock sensing will likely not be optimal.

Then there are aftermarket options as well.

Wait... Is that the MEMCAL they suggest you use? If so, there's no EPROM in that MEMCAL, meaning that the ECU is running in LHM (Limp Home Mode), that's even worse than I had ever heard about S&P...

[Motohead]

Roger That ! In-Tech

[Motohead]

Rats Tayto do we need a VSS to run the 165? Good news on the crank trigger (what I'm seeing the aftermarket ones for the 350 were pricy) since we have a large cap I'd like to run with that one if it will work

[Motohead]

1990 - 92 Camaro TPI used Small Cap HEI
1990 - 91 Corvette TPI use the Large Cap HEI

Personal preference, I avoid Vette .bin files when possible.

The black 24 pin / 32 pin connectors 1227165 and 1227730 are the same (pinout are different), just a yellow connector is needed for a 1227165 to 1227730 upgrade.


dave w

Can I use the 165 Aussie bin with the large cap we already have?

[Motohead]

I was going to suggest this as well.

Back to the original topic...

From what I've seen S&P did some pretty hacky shit to get TPIs to run on as few sensors as possible, which would work, but would not be optimal.

I'd start with a GM Bin or $12P as suggested above, if the '165 is going to be kept, which will work just fine.

The hardest part about switching to a '7730, which is also a good choice, there's some good code that will run on the '7730, but the hardest thing about that switch is to find a proper V8 MEMCAL, not just a modified V6 one. The knock filter is part of the MEMCAL and is specific to different engines. The modified V6 MEMCALs do work, but the knock sensing will likely not be optimal.

Then there are aftermarket options as well.

Wait... Is that the MEMCAL they suggest you use? If so, there's no EPROM in that MEMCAL, meaning that the ECU is running in LHM (Limp Home Mode), that's even worse than I had ever heard about S&P...

I like what he says. I think this will keep costs down we can run what we have

[Motohead]

Cam sounds like it is possibly a L82 cam. I ran one in a TBI 305 with ported TPI heads and was able to tune it to run very well. Not alot of low-speed power but ran extremely well with a 700r4 that had a 2,800 rpm converter and 3.73 gears.
Were just not sure. The motor was assembled years ago the cam card is long gone we went through it and freshened it up but diden't measure the cam. All he can remember is its a Pink Stripe "GM part"

[Motohead]

Personal preference here as well but I converted from the small cap to the large cap. The large cap proved to be more durable.

since we have a large cap with the kit I'like to run with that.

[Motohead]

Bringing all this together
Keep the 165
Run the Aussie bin
Keep the large cap HEI and ICM Since we have that
Keep the harness adding ALDL , O2 ECT IAT sensors. Any more needed?
From Moates is all I need is the APU1 ?
Does the 27SF512 chips work with the 165 and what socket adapter(s) will i need?

[dave w]

Can I use the 165 Aussie bin with the large cap we already have? Unfortunately, I don't know that answer. I'm $12P inexperienced :homer:

dave w

[Six_Shooter]

Can I use the 165 Aussie bin with the large cap we already have?


Yes, the only difference between large and small cap is the size, effectively. The signals in and out are the same. GM liked to keep a lot of things the same.

[Motohead]

Yes, the only difference between large and small cap is the size, effectively. The signals in and out are the same. GM liked to keep a lot of things the same.
and external coil and ICM ?

[Motohead]

Jumping around a bit
I noticed there is no IAC just a manual adjustment will we need to add one ?

IAC.jpg (70.9 KB)

[Motohead]

I'm seeing several auctions on e-bay
Where do you guys get the pins and plugs for the 165 ECM also whats the best extractor and crimp tools for it

[Six_Shooter]

Yes, add an IAC.

I would also add a VSS (I missed your earlier post asking about any additional sensors)

Yes, the 27SF512 will work in the '165, G1 is the adapter you need.

It may be easier to grab some connectors from the wreckers and use those as pig tails. The pins are available on their own, I just haven't sorted out which ones are correct... yet... I plan to get them in stock soon-ish. lol

To depin the connectors are pretty easy, the locks need to be removed (blue combs that are inserted from the wire end), then using a small tool, like a pin, or a stiff paper clip, etc, the hole below where each pin is inserted is where the lock is, just insert your tool, and push towards the lock, while gently pulling on the wire will extract the pin.

[PlayingWithTBI]

To depin the connectors are pretty easy, the locks need to be removed (blue combs that are inserted from the wire end), then using a small tool, like a pin, or a stiff paper clip, etc, the hole below where each pin is inserted is where the lock is, just insert your tool, and push towards the lock, while gently pulling on the wire will extract the pin.

An FYI
https://www.dynamicefi.com/RePinHowTo.php

I'd like to find some "open barrel" pins too. I recently bought this crimping tool, it works pretty good.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07LF4K3VK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here's an example of some crimps using the tool (different connectors but you get the idea), it took some practice to get it down, LOL
16517