Small block Olds fuel injection rail/intake from '75-'81 Seville

[dyeager535]

Figured I'd put a bug in everyones ear here just in case someone runs across one of these. Not having much luck locally finding one, and these things are surely getting rarer by the day I'm sure. I'm not positive these were the only vehicles that used fuel injection on the olds, but the only one I know for sure did.

Worst case I end up with "normal" TBI, already have the throttle body for it, but would be cool to be able to run individual injectors.

No idea what they are worth, but I figure it's not going to be dirt cheap.

[gregs78cam]

I am hoping to get over to Pull'N'Save next week for some parts for a buddies truck, I will keep an eye open for one if I do.

[Six_Shooter]

I have a friend who's REALLY into Olds engines, and electronic fuel injection, I'll see if he has anything.

[dyeager535]

Anything anyone can do to help, I appreciate it. I'm not in a huge hurry, because I don't have a ton of cash to finish the project. But those older cars are getting hard to find, and won't be any easier when I finally start working on the car again. :(

[1project2many]

At one time you didn't seem interested in craigslist / ebay as sources. Has this changed?

Also, you might consider modifying an aftermarket aluminum intake for injectors and building a fuel rail.

Could try contacting this guy to see if he's got the original EFI steup.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/for/3053533987.html

[dyeager535]

Craigslist/ebay have never been off the table. I just don't have a lot of money, and the one setup I saw on ebay is way more than I can afford. Besides, I only want the rails and intake, a complete setup is probably worth more (if anyone even wants them) and typically sellers don't want to part that sort of stuff out. There is someone local with the parts I need, but they aren't interested in parting the car, and I can't afford what they want for the car...it's not worth enough to consider trying to part it out on my own. Plus, my wife might very well kill me if I brought another project home. But I know myself well enough that what I think would take days would take months or more, so best I don't get a whole vehicle.

I actually have a factory aluminum intake for the motor, I've not looked too closely at modifying it for injectors, but as I recall rails were really pricey, which is what kept me from going with an aftermarket solution initially. I'm certainly not stuck on factory parts, but if I can get the intake/rails for a couple hundred dollars, it would be worth it vs. the time and parts to take my own.

Contacted the seller on Craigslist, will see what he says. Appreciate the link!

[Six_Shooter]

My buddy has an intake, and a couple dizzys. He doesn't have the proper fuel rails, but he says he has some that could be modified to work.
The intake has been drilled fir use with newer style injectors.

[1project2many]

You can buy fuel rail stock fairly inexpensively. The time consuming part is matching injector angles to the ports but if machine work in your area isn't too expensive it's worth considering. Ends of the rails can be drilled and tapped to use standard pipe thread and traditional 3/8" tubing works well to connect the rails. I've even made brackets and fittings so I could use a stock pressure regulator on aftermarket style rails.

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[dyeager535]

How much does he want for the intake? AL or Iron?

Is he willing to share what rails he found that are close? Shouldn't need distributors, already have CCC would convert one of those. Would really like to go with a smaller one for clearance, but it's Oldsmobile. I'll have to look closer when I get to that point, see if a different "top" can be swapped.

Unfortunately machine work here is pretty pricey, but it's an option. I'd really like to get my hands on a stock rail setup to see if it's even worth using. At that age, it may be junk for all I know, not worth using. The lines looked fairly small, nothing like the volume I assume even the TPI rails hold.

[Six_Shooter]

I have pictures of everything, I should have them posted tonight.

[Six_Shooter]

Pics are here.

There is an acrylic TB adapter template installed, the fuel rails are close to fitting, mostly just need mounts made up properly, there's a couple fuel pressure regulators that will come with it. The TB is the Caddy style with the throttle kicker for idle.
The intake is aluminum, and is "full port." I'm told that some of these could have been "half port" that closed off the lower portion of the intake port, like they did with the crossfire LIM.
The MAP sensor port has been modified to accept a newer push in style MAP sensor, that is also included.

[dyeager535]

Hmm, pretty interesting.

What would be your appraisal of amount of work this thing would require to fit the rails/injectors to the intake itself, and run the regulator? The mounts look pretty basic, bend, drilling/tapping, but if the injector fittings don't line up exactly with the intake, that's a bit more work.

Can't quite envision what is going on with the fuel rails. I see the injector ports, and what looks like a crossover fitting, but there seem to be other "fittings" on the rails. I can't 6 non-injector fittings (or cut offs). If I remember the TPI rails correctly, there are only two...inlet and outlet to regulator. But obviously too many fittings can be fixed, it's more about the injector angles.

[EagleMark]

gregs78cam just called me from Pull and Save and found a complete intake/system etc still on car... soon to be off car...

I know nothing about these, are the old injectors an issue? Seems the intake would be the good piece to have to start with, TB looks same as newer ones with built in IAC, not sure why MAP would need changed if newer TB with IAC were on there you'd have a dedicted MAP port... cool project!

[dyeager535]

Not sure that the old injectors are an issue per se, but I've just gone off the original post that lead me down the path towards port injected Oldsmobile, and that "build" used newer injectors. Like most everything engine-related, new stuff is probably better. :) Or at least if injecting with more modern components, better to use injectors that work easily with whatever system you decide to go with.

[gregs78cam]

Ok, so I just got back, and here is what I have. It is off of a '77 Eldorado. Everything that was attached to the intake, minus air cleaner. This throttle body looks like it attaches with four bolts in a square pattern, so it should be easy to use a newer one with an adapter plate. I also grabbed the distributor as well, and the valley pan. I would guess it weighs around 30lbs all together. How is $100 plus shipping? Or if you don't want all of it, make me an offer.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=2571&d=1339721513

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=2572&d=1339721513

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=2573&d=1339721513

[EagleMark]

That is a strange animal... vacuum advance on distrib and what is that box on distrib shaft for? Looks like an old Vette tach cable hookup...

$100 removed and shipped? Can I place an order for next time?

[gregs78cam]

If I had to guess, yes for DRP.

Whoa. That was $100+shipping. If he doesn't want it, it's yours.

I want to get out to Pegasus and Garwood next week to look for a Toronado or Eldorado we can cut the front off of. P&S wont let us.

And sure, if anyone is looking for anything you can PM me and I will try to get what you need.

[1project2many]

Hey, folks. We're looking at two different manifolds from two different engines. Gregs is from a Cadillac. Six posted pictures of an Olds system. Look at thermostat housing (or lack of) and port spacing/angle.

Box on distributor provides reference signal to fuel only computer. Stock injector resistance doesn't work with 7730 so that's why the change.


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[gregs78cam]

HAHAHA, I somehow missed that. He wants a small block setup. The one I have is off a 425. OOPS. Oh well. It will still fit on a 500 for dad's datsun pickup.

[1project2many]

For the price it's worth holding onto. There's a dedicated forum for these systems and they're always looking for parts like controllers, sensors, &etc.

[dyeager535]

Yep, appreciate the offer, but that is definitely not an Olds intake. :(

I think that is why it's a Seville-only setup, the other fuel injected Cadillacs were actual Cadillac motors.


If I had to guess, yes for DRP.

Whoa. That was $100+shipping. If he doesn't want it, it's yours.

I want to get out to Pegasus and Garwood next week to look for a Toronado or Eldorado we can cut the front off of. P&S wont let us.

And sure, if anyone is looking for anything you can PM me and I will try to get what you need.

[gregs78cam]

There was a '79 Seville at the north yard, that had a 350, was EFI an option or standard for the years you are looking for? If you are not in too much of a hurry, I can try to get back over there next week.

[dyeager535]

I believe it was the standard motor, at least based on what evidence I can find online.

I'm not in a huge hurry for sure. As I said earlier, short of the fuel rails and the intake, I don't see why I'd want the rest of the system...already have a 454 TBI, will be using a more common ECM, different injectors, and newer distributor. It's always nice to be there to see if there is something I've overlooked, but short of how the fuel lines attach to the rails, I can't imagine any of the other parts are useful. Just adds to shipping cost.

[gregs78cam]

It looks like I may be headed to Pull n Save today. If that Seville is still there, I will go ahead an pick up the manifold, injectors, and rails for you.

[dyeager535]

I really appreciate it! I need to win the lottery so I can quit working, and still have enough money to work on all my projects!

[Nasty-Z]

Bringing this post back to the top ,

I am in need of one of these intakes for a project of mine (Small block Olds , 75-81 Seville) . It is for a 403 project I'm working on.

I do not need TB unit , rails , etc , just the intake .

If anyone here still has one available P/M or email me , tomsnastyz@yahoo.com

Thanks

TOM

[Fast355]

Hey, folks. We're looking at two different manifolds from two different engines. Gregs is from a Cadillac. Six posted pictures of an Olds system. Look at thermostat housing (or lack of) and port spacing/angle.

Box on distributor provides reference signal to fuel only computer. Stock injector resistance doesn't work with 7730 so that's why the change.


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Yep there are a pair of reed switches in that box driven by a pair of lobes on the distributor shaft to tell the old analog bosch computer the engine RPM.

[Fast355]

I had a hand in converting an old GMC motorhome a few years ago using a 7730. Nicely built 403 oldsmobile with the Seville intake, modified for LT1 injectors, running the 7730 and a large cap HEI from a 1983 307 Cutlass. We solved the idle speed issue by boring out the TB holes in the manifold and fitting a 4.3 Astro van TBI unit minus injectors to an adapter plate we fashioned with a drill press. The Toronado FWD TH400 transmission had been rebuilt with an old switch pitch setup and switch pitch converter. Used the TCC code to control the switch pitch through a normally closed relay to invert the signal. During normal take off the TCC circuit would be open and power would feed to the switch pitch solenoid to give high stall position. At an appropriate mph the TCC circuit energized and the relay would energize, opening the solenoid and switching the converter to low stall. It was very seemless in operation. The tuning was done by me using SAJUPv4 and a wideband.

[billygraves]

The box on the distributor is to trigger the Bosch ECM. (When you put a new pick-up coil in the dist, remember to remove the pin inside the lower box. Be careful with it.) The original throttle bodies had what is called a "Choke Heater" When it was cold this would allow more air through for RPM increase. They had a bad habit of failing and Hi rpm all the time. The old Bosch system would hesitate on a quick accel and Caddy Eng. said this is Normal. On the Caddy engines (Not Olds) the intake gasket would draw air and run higher rpm. See below fix!
If you ever put an intake gasket on an Olds engine, Use sandpaper to rough up and clean up the head AND Alum and Cast iron intake. Carb or Brk cleaner on all surfaces to clean it. Punch 3 holes in the Bottom of the valley of the intake gasket pan 1/2 inch. Use GOOD SILICONE SEALER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE INTAKE GASKET. Easpecially the Water Ports. I had numerous buy-backs for coolant leaks on intakes. I would run a very thin bead around each port and between each lower side of the port. Use silicone for the China walls and you have to do it pretty fast so the sealer won't skin over. (I've heard of some cutting the intake pan off or using a Olds Diesel intake gasket. The Pan prevents SOME HOT oil to the bottom of the intake and allow it to run cooler. I suggest you leave the pan intact but 3 1/2 holes in the bottom of the valley)
If your building an Oldsengine of the mid 70's to mid 80's, do yourself a favor. Pull the heads and "Clean Up" the port bowels. They are full of extra material and heavily restrict FLOW. The Ex are the worst I saw. I would also back cut the valves, it really picks up flow at low lift. I would never use the small port heads in the 90's. They are swirl port and if you look at the timing tables in the ECM you'll see Very low numbers. It's because it is efficient but only there for fuel econ and no power gain.
Check ALL the push rods for carbon build up. They get restrictive near the EGR. If you use a EGR, make a alum plate and cut the EGR passage to half. It will help with Hi Flow EGR valves that got into production.
Dont use 10-40 oil in an Olds. Use 10-30 Synthetic. If you don't keep up with the oil changes, the Rocker arms will fail on cyl, 3 and 5 and 4 and 6. The push rods will plug with carbon form this also.

[Fast355]

The box on the distributor is to trigger the Bosch ECM. (When you put a new pick-up coil in the dist, remember to remove the pin inside the lower box. Be careful with it.) The original throttle bodies had what is called a "Choke Heater" When it was cold this would allow more air through for RPM increase. They had a bad habit of failing and Hi rpm all the time. The old Bosch system would hesitate on a quick accel and Caddy Eng. said this is Normal. On the Caddy engines (Not Olds) the intake gasket would draw air and run higher rpm. See below fix!
If you ever put an intake gasket on an Olds engine, Use sandpaper to rough up and clean up the head AND Alum and Cast iron intake. Carb or Brk cleaner on all surfaces to clean it. Punch 3 holes in the Bottom of the valley of the intake gasket pan 1/2 inch. Use GOOD SILICONE SEALER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE INTAKE GASKET. Easpecially the Water Ports. I had numerous buy-backs for coolant leaks on intakes. I would run a very thin bead around each port and between each lower side of the port. Use silicone for the China walls and you have to do it pretty fast so the sealer won't skin over. (I've heard of some cutting the intake pan off or using a Olds Diesel intake gasket. The Pan prevents SOME HOT oil to the bottom of the intake and allow it to run cooler. I suggest you leave the pan intact but 3 1/2 holes in the bottom of the valley)
If your building an Oldsengine of the mid 70's to mid 80's, do yourself a favor. Pull the heads and "Clean Up" the port bowels. They are full of extra material and heavily restrict FLOW. The Ex are the worst I saw. I would also back cut the valves, it really picks up flow at low lift. I would never use the small port heads in the 90's. They are swirl port and if you look at the timing tables in the ECM you'll see Very low numbers. It's because it is efficient but only there for fuel econ and no power gain.
Check ALL the push rods for carbon build up. They get restrictive near the EGR. If you use a EGR, make a alum plate and cut the EGR passage to half. It will help with Hi Flow EGR valves that got into production.
Dont use 10-40 oil in an Olds. Use 10-30 Synthetic. If you don't keep up with the oil changes, the Rocker arms will fail on cyl, 3 and 5 and 4 and 6. The push rods will plug with carbon form this also.

I have experience with those 80s 307s. I would never not run the swirl ports in the factory application. I had a 1988 Cadillac Sedan Deville Brougham with the 180 HP Vin9 307, 200r4, and 2.53 gears. Cruised 70 mph just above idle and would knock down 25+ mpg on every long road trip I took it on. Off-idle and low end torque was very strong, just not much HP. I think the cam fell of about 3,500 rpm anyway, so no real need to rev it high either. 4,000 rpm in 1st gear was about 60 mph!!! That olds would have been so much better with TBI on top.

Also not sure what you mean by the timing advance. The 307 Vin9 in a Cadillac had one of the most aggressive advance curves I have seen in an engine. The WOT spark started at 28* BTDC @ 1,200 rpm and ended up at 34* by 2,800 rpm. Part throttle advance ran as high as 60* BTDC. The distributor was set at 20* Initial as well.