Open Loop BLM?????

[ralmo94]

So for some reason, after getting spark curve issues inline, when tuning ve table open loop, I get BLM? Anybody ever have that before?

I did a quick search and I couldn't find anything.

I'm tuning in $OD on a 94 GMC 5.7. I have a wideband installed to EGR channel to the 7427 equivalent (6395)

closed loop enable temp is maxed, and data log shows open loop.

BLM update min RPM maxed out.

I don't understand why BLM's are updating in open loop?

I went ahead and burned another chip with min BLM max BLM both to 128 and changed BLM step from 1 to 0.

Tune log entries

07/12/2020 20:38:36 Scalar: Minimum BLM changed from 105 BLM (0x69) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:38:49 Scalar: Minimum BLM at Idle changed from 90 BLM (0x5A) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:38:56 Scalar: BLM Step Value changed from 1 BLM (0x01) to 0 BLM (0x00).
07/12/2020 20:39:06 Scalar: Maximum BLM changed from 165 BLM (0xA5) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:39:14 Scalar: Maximum Initial BLM changed from 135 BLM (0x87) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:39:24 Scalar: Minimum Initial BLM changed from 126 BLM (0x7E) to 128 BLM (0x80).



I will disconect the battery to clear BLM and try tuning VE again.

Maybe I don't understand, but I was under the impression that all qualifiers had to be met to trim fuel, Closed loop enable, INT, max RPM, TEMP. Does someone know how the code logic works? Does it look for 1 before the other?

I have no idea. Weirdest thing to me to have open loop BLM's while INT's stay locked at 128

I thought with a Wide Band this thing would be easy to tune. I still think if it would do what I'm trying to tell it to do, it would be.

[ralmo94]

i hope it was ok to post my bin here. I just read a thread stating that it's not cool to post modified bins on a public thread. I always thought if you had something weird going on you were suppost to post your bin, so if anyone interested in helping could see what you did that might be wrong. If I have broke the rules, I sincerely apologize. I never intended anyone to try to run a bin I posted that might have issues

[1project2many]

It's OK to post your .bin for the sake of diagnosis.

I'm unsure why your BLM numbers are changing. They should remain at 128. I may not have time to look at your files today. Are you seeing changes in the actual BLM or the BLM Cell#?

[ralmo94]

It's actual blm. I when I looked at wide band in the same areas blm was under 128, wide band was lean. Above 128, wide band was rich. I no longer have a narrow band on the truck. Any narrow band reading is from simulation from wide band. Thanks

[steveo]

the BLM (long term trim) values can change in open loop, if you have stored trims in a cell, and you're changing cells.

that doesn't mean they're updating (if your INT is 128, they really can't be)

[ralmo94]

the BLM (long term trim) values can change in open loop, if you have stored trims in a cell, and you're changing cells.

that doesn't mean they're updating (if your INT is 128, they really can't be)
That's what I thought also! Truck has only had open loop tune since last battery disconnect, and a long long time before that. If you look at the data log, it shows deviation range. I understand that trim cells don't exactly correspond to VE cells, but it shouldn't have any BLM, as I have not seen it go closed loop, and have not ran a closed loop chip. Disconnected the battery this morning, don't have a new data log as my laptop was dead.

[steveo]

i've never used $0D but pretty sure $0D actually stores them in eeprom or something so removing battery power will not work. there should be some blm keep-alive settings in the bin you can modify to control the range of values that are stored. you can probably clear them via the datastream, doesnt your ADX have something for that?

[dave w]

The simulated narrow band O2 information from the WBO2 can be problematic.

I use both the WBO2 data and the factory narrow band O2 sensor connected to the computer when I tune. I tune in closed loop. Usually open loop (choke, warm up, PE and AE) will show BLM's at 128.

I've noticed a tendency for WBO2 data and the factory narrow band O2 data to conflict with each other. The WBO2 data is more accurate.

dave w

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[ralmo94]

I don't think I have any commands I can do while data stream is active. Or else I don't know how. Straight forward on hp tuners. But I paid a lot for HP tuners. Do you have to add anything to get commands?

[ralmo94]

The simulated narrow band O2 information from the WBO2 can be problematic.

I use both the WBO2 data and the factory narrow band O2 sensor connected to the computer when I tune. I tune in closed loop. Usually open loop (choke, warm up, PE and AE) will show BLM's at 128.

I've noticed a tendency for WBO2 data and the factory narrow band O2 data to conflict with each other. The WBO2 data is more accurate.

dave w

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I agree. I don't want to use closed loop at all. I only have one bung in the pipe.

[dave w]

I agree. I don't want to use closed loop at all. I only have one bung in the pipe.

I wonder what a data log with the attached .adx would look like? The reason I wonder is because data captured with the attached .adx will align the exported .csv with the WBO2 spreadsheet posted here: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5381-Wide-Band-O2-(WBO2-Tuning)-Spreadsheet

Changing the filter from closed loop to open loop will show the open loop information.

dave w

[ralmo94]

I wonder what a data log with the attached .adx would look like? The reason I wonder is because data captured with the attached .adx will align the exported .csv with the WBO2 spreadsheet posted here: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5381-Wide-Band-O2-(WBO2-Tuning)-Spreadsheet

Changing the filter from closed loop to open loop will show the open loop information.

dave w

That looks like the adx I started with. I changed a couple of things in it so I could get a histogram of wide band in lambda, and changed my spark, as I am 2deg at dizzy.

I just realized you posted the xdf. Looks like what I use. Isn't it the same one as I posted at the beginning of thread?

[dave w]

That looks like the adx I started with. I changed a couple of things in it so I could get a histogram of wide band in lambda, and changed my spark, as I am 2deg at dizzy.

I just realized you posted the xdf. Looks like what I use. Isn't it the same one as I posted at the beginning of thread?

Ooops:homer:

dave w

[ralmo94]

I guess what I have is version 251 and you have version 250. What are the differences if any? Everything I know about TBI tunerpro, and tuning I have read what others have been kind enough to post. All assistance is greatly appreciated, and humbly read.

[dave w]

The 250 file in post #13 is a .adx file for data logging.

The 251 is a .xdf file for editing the .bin file file.

The gearhead-efi link for $OD information: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?303-16197427-PCM-Information-0D

From 1project2many:
Corrected Advanced $0D TP5 v251 Low Async Short BPW Offset vs. BPW table to correctly use Async Short BPW Offset Bias. New version uploaded as Advanced $0D TP5 v251.xdf .

dave w

[ralmo94]

The 250 file in post #13 is a .adx file for data logging.

The 251 is a .xdf file for editing the .bin file file.

The gearhead-efi link for $OD information: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?303-16197427-PCM-Information-0D

From 1project2many:
Corrected Advanced $0D TP5 v251 Low Async Short BPW Offset vs. BPW table to correctly use Async Short BPW Offset Bias. New version uploaded as Advanced $0D TP5 v251.xdf .

dave w

Ok. Thanks. Silly me I didn't look at the file extension. That link is the page I got all files from I started with. BCC code on pcm was BJLF. I switched to BJLH, as a diagnosis on other issue that has since been figured out. Since I had fixed the problem I was having with the BJLH bin, I didn't revert back to LF.

[ralmo94]

i've never used $0D but pretty sure $0D actually stores them in eeprom or something so removing battery power will not work. there should be some blm keep-alive settings in the bin you can modify to control the range of values that are stored. you can probably clear them via the datastream, doesnt your ADX have something for that?

Can someone confirm on the correct way to clear BLM ( fuel trims) on a 7427 series $OD.

I know I'm not the first to tune $OD. Before I went open loop, disconnecting battery seamed to work.

[1project2many]

It appears Scantool can clear BLM through mode 4 request
Status bit b4 @ $0045 can also initiate BLM reset.
Among other things, BLM will not change if INT is not outside window.
Even if BLM is changing, BLM will be clamped to max and min values per following code:



BLM clamp routine
;
;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
;
LEF2B LDAA L48F3 ;Upper limit for BLMs
LDAB L48F4 ;Lower limit for BLMs
;
LDX #L02D6 ;Addr of first BLM cell
LEF34 CMPA 0,X ;Compare upper lim. to BLM
BCC LEF3A ;Bra if BLM less
;
STAA 0,X ;Save upper limit instead
;
LEF3A CMPB 0,X ;Compare lower lim. to BLM
BLS LEF40 ;Bra if lower limit is less
;
STAB 0,X ;Save lower limit instead
;
LEF40 INX ;+1, advance to next cell
CPX #L02EA ;Last BLM cell
BLS LEF34 ;Bra if not at last cell yet, continue
;
RTS ;Return


This means that setting max and min BLM to 128 will cause ECM to check all 16 BLM cells to ensure they are between 128 and 128. If BLM in a cell is found to be outside the range then it is set to the limit instead, in this case 128.

[ralmo94]

It appears Scantool can clear BLM through mode 4 request
Status bit b4 @ $0045 can also initiate BLM reset.
Among other things, BLM will not change if INT is not outside window.
Even if BLM is changing, BLM will be clamped to max and min values per following code:



BLM clamp routine
;
;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
;
LEF2B LDAA L48F3 ;Upper limit for BLMs
LDAB L48F4 ;Lower limit for BLMs
;
LDX #L02D6 ;Addr of first BLM cell
LEF34 CMPA 0,X ;Compare upper lim. to BLM
BCC LEF3A ;Bra if BLM less
;
STAA 0,X ;Save upper limit instead
;
LEF3A CMPB 0,X ;Compare lower lim. to BLM
BLS LEF40 ;Bra if lower limit is less
;
STAB 0,X ;Save lower limit instead
;
LEF40 INX ;+1, advance to next cell
CPX #L02EA ;Last BLM cell
BLS LEF34 ;Bra if not at last cell yet, continue
;
RTS ;Return


This means that setting max and min BLM to 128 will cause ECM to check all 16 BLM cells to ensure they are between 128 and 128. If BLM in a cell is found to be outside the range then it is set to the limit instead, in this case 128.


I don't really understand everything you said :confused:

The last statement and the first statement I understand. I don't have a scan tool for OBD1. I don't know what "status bit b4" is. Is that in tuner pro?

I Really appreciate the all the code, but kinda feels like I'm a little kid looking for pictures in a book. LOL

I am guessing that the general jist of that is that I should be fine with what I attempted to fix.
07/12/2020 20:38:36 Scalar: Minimum BLM changed from 105 BLM (0x69) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:38:49 Scalar: Minimum BLM at Idle changed from 90 BLM (0x5A) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:38:56 Scalar: BLM Step Value changed from 1 BLM (0x01) to 0 BLM (0x00).
07/12/2020 20:39:06 Scalar: Maximum BLM changed from 165 BLM (0xA5) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:39:14 Scalar: Maximum Initial BLM changed from 135 BLM (0x87) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:39:24 Scalar: Minimum Initial BLM changed from 126 BLM (0x7E) to 128 BLM (0x80).

After my laptop charged, I got a data log, and unhooking battery seemed to clear BLM's, as they stayed at 128 for the whole log. But if there is a way to use tunerpro rt, I am all ears.

Thank You

[1project2many]

That's ok. Being able to read code is a benefit to what you're doing but not a requirement. But other folks helping can read code and may be able to add information based on what I posted.

The names of the limits that you posted do not exactly correlate with the code I posted. That's ok. The next step is to evaluate the XDF definition to see if any of the limits you've adjusted are located at the addresses called out in the code. Namely, 0x48F3 and 0x48F4. If you have set both of those limits to 128 then it appears the code should repeatedly reset BLM to 128.

You can "edit XDF parameter" in Tunerpro to see what location in the chip you are changing. I think an explanation would take more time than I have now. I will try to post some information to help tonight. I will also look at the .xdf you posted.

[ralmo94]

That's ok. Being able to read code is a benefit to what you're doing but not a requirement. But other folks helping can read code and may be able to add information based on what I posted.

The names of the limits that you posted do not exactly correlate with the code I posted. That's ok. The next step is to evaluate the XDF definition to see if any of the limits you've adjusted are located at the addresses called out in the code. Namely, 0x48F3 and 0x48F4. If you have set both of those limits to 128 then it appears the code should repeatedly reset BLM to 128.

You can "edit XDF parameter" in Tunerpro to see what location in the chip you are changing. I think an explanation would take more time than I have now. I will try to post some information to help tonight. I will also look at the .xdf you posted.


Thank You!!! Looks like the addresses you posted go to the min and max initial BLM.

So if I understand the code correctly, If initial BLM is capped at 128, the code doesn't go any further?

[1project2many]

So if I understand the code correctly, If initial BLM is capped at 128, the code doesn't go any further?
First, my apologies for not getting back to this sooner.

That section of code will "reset" every BLM cell keeping them within the window defined by the Initial BLM limits. There is another section of code which will reset code to 128 as well. Reading code accurately can take more than a brief look so if you are still seeing BLM change even though the Initial BLM's are set to 128 I will have to look further into how the code operates.

[ralmo94]

Thank you. Don't seem to have any BLM after changing the fields mentioned. My VE is pretty close now to. Last data log most cells within 3%. Now shooting for within 3% all on rich side. Is that what most aim for to call it done? I am planning on remaining open loop.

[dave w]

I'm hoping to learn and understand what the tuning expectations and / or ultimate tuning results will be accomplished with resetting the BLM's?

I'm understanding the desired goal to successfully tune open loop only, but I'm thinking it is not necessary to reset BLM's to successfully tune open loop?

Have you tried tuning open loop with the Open Loop AFR vs. Temperature vs. Vacuum table? I tune closed loop, but to I still need to adjust open loop choke AFR's and open loop warm up AFR's with the open loop tables.

dave w

[ralmo94]

I'm hoping to learn and understand what the tuning expectations and / or ultimate tuning results will be accomplished with resetting the BLM's?

I'm understanding the desired goal to successfully tune open loop only, but I'm thinking it is not necessary to reset BLM's to successfully tune open loop?

Have you tried tuning open loop with the Open Loop AFR vs. Temperature vs. Vacuum table? I tune closed loop, but to I still need to adjust open loop choke AFR's and open loop warm up AFR's with the open loop tables.

dave w
I don't intend on using closed loop. Don't really like the way it plays with the fuel. I Know there are mixed opinions about that. I changed stoichiometric to 14.1 and changed open loop table to mostly 14.1 except the warm up contitions. I left those rich. It seems to be staying open loop now. I tried using blms to dial fuel in when I first started tuning it, and seemed to go a lot quicker once I figured out how to use lambda. It runs way better than it has since I owned it. Just wondered how close people usually get there VE, to call it done.

Thanks.

[dave w]

Open Loop :thumbsup:

dave w

[steveo]

...Just wondered how close people usually get there VE, to call it done.

for most cars i like to get it quite close within areas that are actually driven in, and half-ass it or guess in areas that aren't. on most vehicles only like half the VE table is reached within anything but the most extreme cases.

[ralmo94]

for most cars i like to get it quite close within areas that are actually driven in, and half-ass it or guess in areas that aren't. on most vehicles only like half the VE table is reached within anything but the most extreme cases.

Thanks!! I guess I'm pretty well tuned then. That is great news!!! Does a gearhead ever actually stop adjusting fuel mixture? .....

I don't know either.

I want to thank everyone who participated in this thread. Hopefully it will help someone if they have the same issue.

[steveo]

Does a gearhead ever actually stop adjusting fuel mixture?

generally we will play with our engines so much that his target fuel mixture is totally shot to hell on a weekly basis. that's the fun of it.

one mistake is being obsessed with small inaccuracies. don't re-tune for differences in fueling of less than like 2 or maybe even 3%. you will constantly be modulating and NEVER finish tuning. your engine wont notice it at all, so you shouldn't either. only focus on the stuff that's actually out. if you tune with my tools there's usually a filter for percentage, so you can make things under x% just say 'good'...

[ralmo94]

if you tune with my tools there's usually a filter for percentage, so you can make things under x% just say 'good'...[/QUOTE]

I believe trimalizer is yours? I just downloaded that. It was great to be able to leave PE and decel on, and just filter them out with idle. Then filter PE on and see how my PE ratio is.

YOU ARE AWESOME

[dave w]

I'm trying to understand the "how to" for $OD open loop tuning.

The required .bin changes are listed below?

07/12/2020 20:38:36 Scalar: Minimum BLM changed from 105 BLM (0x69) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:38:49 Scalar: Minimum BLM at Idle changed from 90 BLM (0x5A) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:38:56 Scalar: BLM Step Value changed from 1 BLM (0x01) to 0 BLM (0x00).
07/12/2020 20:39:06 Scalar: Maximum BLM changed from 165 BLM (0xA5) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:39:14 Scalar: Maximum Initial BLM changed from 135 BLM (0x87) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:39:24 Scalar: Minimum Initial BLM changed from 126 BLM (0x7E) to 128 BLM (0x80).

Set minimum temperature for closed loop to 151 Celsius?
WBO2 Tune with $OD with Trimanalyzer?
WBO2 Data Log $OD with TunerPro RT?

Pic below showing $OD Open Loop PE Active, using TunerPro RT

dave w

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[ralmo94]

I'm trying to understand the "how to" for $OD open loop tuning.

The required .bin changes are listed below?

07/12/2020 20:38:36 Scalar: Minimum BLM changed from 105 BLM (0x69) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:38:49 Scalar: Minimum BLM at Idle changed from 90 BLM (0x5A) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:38:56 Scalar: BLM Step Value changed from 1 BLM (0x01) to 0 BLM (0x00).
07/12/2020 20:39:06 Scalar: Maximum BLM changed from 165 BLM (0xA5) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:39:14 Scalar: Maximum Initial BLM changed from 135 BLM (0x87) to 128 BLM (0x80).
07/12/2020 20:39:24 Scalar: Minimum Initial BLM changed from 126 BLM (0x7E) to 128 BLM (0x80).

Set minimum temperature for closed loop to 151 Celsius?
WBO2 Tune with $OD with Trimanalyzer?
WBO2 Data Log $OD with TunerPro RT?

Pic below showing $OD Open Loop PE Active, using TunerPro RT

dave w

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Everything I could find on the subject, seems to be that all you have to do is change cl minimum temp. Which worked for a while for me, but as I said when I started this thread, I began to notice BLM change without INT change, and while open loop. I have made all the changes you have mentioned, and I think only a couple may be needed, and the rest are just redundant, but I like redundancy anyway. I have not had anymore BLM change.

As far as PE, everything I found said to either disable it, or set it to stoichiometric to get your ve tuned in those cells. But with the trimalizer, it's my understanding that you can leave it on, maybe with the delay, then filter PE to false, and still tune those cells without disabling it. Then after VE is tuned, you can filter PE on, and see how effectively your commanded PE ratio equates to actual lambda.

I'm sure others have a lot more knowledge and experience than I do, as this is my first $od tuning experience, and first attempt at tuning in to a new camshaft as well. Following the summary of everything I have learned has made it possible for me. Ran horrible on stock tune. Wide band was always maxed out full rich at idle. Closed loop open loop, didn't seem to make much difference. And I always thought it should have more power. Now it seems to run better than I'm sure it probably ever did new.

[dave w]

Does TrimAnalyzer filter for Near Idle and Off Idle?

Some rock crawlers like tuning $OD Near Idle for 4 Low Range.

dave w

[ralmo94]

You can set filters for rpm throttle, or flags that are in the data log. Example rpm greater or less than what you specify, or idle flag true or false. Decel enleanment, false and so on.

[ralmo94]

Thought I would show some screenshots of it, since I find it to be a really cool tool

As you can see, I was able to load several logs at once

[ralmo94]

you can select to filter what ever you want as long as its in the data log.
you can search for what you are looking for as I searched for idle flag

[ralmo94]

you can see I also filtered Decel, and PE.

Also, I didn't circle it, but if using wide band, you want to change BLM, to what ever you have it in your adx

[ralmo94]

Here is what my data log looks like. Notice it doesn't match $OD Ve table.

But you can change that by clicking table layout

As you can see, the program author included a few other VE tables. THanks

[ralmo94]

As you can see, My VE is pretty close according to the information here

[ralmo94]

Here is a really awesome feature of this program.

You can pull up your VE table in Tuner Pro, and copy the table to clip board, then go back to the analyser, and click modify clip board. It changes what you have copied without pasting first. Just go back to tuner pro, and paste. There is your new VE.


I like to go back, and take off all filters except PE, and change it to true, and see if I am getting the ratio I want. Then I can just adjust commanded PE ratio, and leave the VE table alone, taking for granted its close enough.

I just personally discovered this tool the other day, and thought it was really cool. Hope everyone enjoys:rockon:

[steveo]

seems like you have a pretty good handle on it. i don't think enough people use trimalyzer (me included.. i wrote it but haven't really tuned much with it), maybe your screenshots will help


Does TrimAnalyzer filter for Near Idle and Off Idle?

i kept it really primitive on purpose

it'll filter for whatever you want, as long as whatever you want doesn't involve using 'or' matches. all the filters are 'and' (all must match for a record to be accepted)

it has a 'memory' for your filters but only remembers one custom set

it's worth trying the thing, just load any CSV log into it and play around

one thing worth mentioning though is when tuning really tight areas or special cases, the analysis method (which can be changed on the fly) is important. the (default) mode i call geometric from the UI (actually called radial in the code) is designed for working over an entire VE table by applying the data, especially data requiring heavy trims, to many surrounding cells, and might produce too much blur if you're matching only a small area of the table or working with smaller amounts of log data. for your 'off idle' stuff probably just ues strict cell or whatever and do your own blending by hand

[ralmo94]

Would you need a layout for near idle VE, or would the values be pasted in correct cells no matter what layout is showing? I'm not remembering at the moment, but I'm thinking that's what the warning message is about when you hit modify clipboard data.

If that's the case, would one need to copy the genaric layout and past in a spreadsheet, to use the data, or tune cells manually?

Thanks.

[steveo]

i'm not sure what you're asking

i don't understand what you mean by 'what layout is showing' or why you would have a different layout configured than what your VE table actually is

the function where it takes an entire VE table you have copied and then applies the changes to the clipboard requires the table to be the same size

edit: if you mean you're tuning something other than your primary VE table, then yeah, you need to configure that layout, otherwise the data will be in the wrong place regardless

[dave w]

$OD has two different size VE tables for Near Idle / Off Idle.

The $OD exported .CSV has column "Idle Flag" On / Off

Near Idle data is filtered using Idle Flag = On

dave w

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[dave w]

$OD has two different size VE tables for Near Idle / Off Idle.

The $OD exported .CSV has column "Idle Flag" On / Off

Near Idle data is filtered using Idle Flag = On

dave w

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Actual Tables pictured below:

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[steveo]

so just make a new table layout in trimalyzer for that other table and filter for idle flag = enabled
should work fine

[dave w]

so just make a new table layout in trimalyzer for that other table and filter for idle flag = enabled
should work fine

idle flag = enabled or idle flag = on?

[ralmo94]

idle flag = enabled or idle flag = on?

On mine, it has a true or false for idle flag. True= idle. False = off idle. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[steveo]

trimalyzer is designed so you dont have to concern yourself with that
common words like 1, yes, enabled, on, set are taken as “true “
works well
try it