'92 Chevy G20 350 SBC TBI with LPG installed...

[Dunksterp]

Hey guys, I've converted my 92 Chevy G20 to LPG, I'm using an Impco 425 Mixer and it's running reasonably well, but I'm considering completely either ditching the TBI system for a throttle plate and running on LPG solo or running a carb. Does the fuel system run independently of the spark or do they talk to each other? Could I remove the throttle body and have the ecu control when to advance or retard the timing? Or would I be better suited with getting a HEI dizzy?

I plan on getting hold of some vortec heads and a bigger cam. I've heard that a LPG really likes a single plane intake so I'll be looking into that.

Sorry, bit new to all this and I'm trying to work out my plan of attack.

Cheers for any help.

[dave w]

The TBI throttle has both the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and the Idle Air Control (IAC) Solenoid.

Fuel table is RPM's vs Vacuum (Kilo Pascals - Kpa)

Spark table is also RPM's vs Vacuum (Kilo Pascals - Kpa)

It would be easier to use the older HEI distributor with vacuum advance and completely eliminate all the features and benefits of using a TBI computer.:mad1:

dave w

[tayto]

LPG also likes high compression, don't be affraid to go over the "norm". keep quench tight, .040" and under. you can always use the TBI ECM to control only timing. you will have to have a TPS and MAP sensor. if you keep VSS you can still control lockup aswell.

[Dunksterp]

LPG also likes high compression, don't be affraid to go over the "norm". keep quench tight, .040" and under. you can always use the TBI ECM to control only timing. you will have to have a TPS and MAP sensor. if you keep VSS you can still control lockup aswell.

I do like the idea of being able to use the TBI ECM to control the timing, I assume it'd give me a hell of a lot more control than using a dizzy. I've already got an ALDL cable and use it with my tablet to monitor the engine and use gauges. From what I understand I need specific hardware to change anything on these ECMs. You able tell me exactly what it is I need? Is it this? http://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-programmer-p-197.html?cPath=94

I'm an IT engineer so I'm pretty comfortable with stuff like this (hopefully). Any advice appreciated.

Cheers

EDIT - Just to add, I have this number printed on what I assume is the PCM? - 16146299

[dave w]

The Ostrich 2.0 is a good option, that emulates the chip. The picture is for computer 16197427. The Ostrich 2.0 setup for 16146299 is very similar. Basically the Ostrich 2.0 makes the 16146299 a "Flash" computer, so chip burning / swapping is not needed.:jfj:

dave w

15517

[Fast355]

I do like the idea of being able to use the TBI ECM to control the timing, I assume it'd give me a hell of a lot more control than using a dizzy. I've already got an ALDL cable and use it with my tablet to monitor the engine and use gauges. From what I understand I need specific hardware to change anything on these ECMs. You able tell me exactly what it is I need? Is it this? http://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-programmer-p-197.html?cPath=94

I'm an IT engineer so I'm pretty comfortable with stuff like this (hopefully). Any advice appreciated.

Cheers

EDIT - Just to add, I have this number printed on what I assume is the PCM? - 16146299

I think I may have a natural gas bin file for a 299. I believe it was controlling spark and TCC only.

[Dunksterp]

The Ostrich 2.0 is a good option, that emulates the chip. The picture is for computer 16197427. The Ostrich 2.0 setup for 16146299 is very similar. Basically the Ostrich 2.0 makes the 16146299 a "Flash" computer, so chip burning / swapping is not needed.:jfj:

dave w

15517

Hold the phone! So I could purchase that and tune on the fly? Like you can with say something from the 21st Century? That'd allow me to customise the spark table and, well the fuel table? It might put me off switching to a carb if that's the case?!?!?!

[dave w]

Hold the phone! So I could purchase that and tune on the fly? Like you can with say something from the 21st Century? Allow me to customize the spark table and fuel table? YES!

The 16146299 IS NOT plug-n-play with the Ostrich 2.0 emulator. The 16146299 requires the Moates.net Socket Booster. The 16146299 chip holder IS NOT plug-n-play with the Moates.net Socket Booster.

It's possible to upgrade the 16146299 to the 16197427 computer, but that's NOT plug-n-play either.

The 16197427 has TWO fuel tables and TWO spark tables, Near Idle / Off Idle.:thumbsup:


dave w

[Dunksterp]

YES!

The 16146299 IS NOT plug-n-play with the Ostrich 2.0 emulator. The 16146299 requires the Moates.net Socket Booster. The 16146299 chip holder IS NOT plug-n-play with the Moates.net Socket Booster.

It's possible to upgrade the 16146299 to the 16197427 computer, but that's NOT plug-n-play either.

The 16197427 has TWO fuel tables and TWO spark tables, Near Idle / Off Idle.:thumbsup:


dave w

Unless I'm reading you wrong, you said YES! but then described two methods that aren't plug and play? So what method would I use? Would be easiest?

[dave w]

The Ostrich 2.0 will work with the 16146299 computer. I often think the statement "Plug-n-Play" means, plug it in and EVERYTHING is done and go play. The Ostrich 2.0 will not physically "plug into" the 16146299 computer:mad1:. There a several steps involved to allow using the Ostrich 2.0 with the 16146299 computer. Using the Ostrich 2.0 with the 16146299 computer will require soldering some parts into the 16196299 computer. Using Ostrich 2.0 with the 16146299 requires purchasing addition parts, the Moates.net Socket Booster. The answer is still yes, the Ostrich 2.0 can be used with the 16146299 computer, but additional parts (some needing to be soldered) are needed. The Ostrich 2.0 does not simply "Plug Into" the 16146299 computer. The Ostrich 2.0 can be "Plugged Into" the 16197427 computer, without soldering. I did not mean to cause confusion. Some members will not solder.

dave w

[Dunksterp]

The Ostrich 2.0 will work with the 16146299 computer. I often think the statement "Plug-n-Play" means, plug it in and EVERYTHING is done and go play. The Ostrich 2.0 will not physically "plug into" the 16146299 computer:mad1:. There a several steps involved to allow using the Ostrich 2.0 with the 16146299 computer. Using the Ostrich 2.0 with the 16146299 computer will require soldering some parts into the 16196299 computer. Using Ostrich 2.0 with the 16146299 requires purchasing addition parts, the Moates.net Socket Booster. The answer is still yes, the Ostrich 2.0 can be used with the 16146299 computer, but additional parts (some needing to be soldered) are needed. The Ostrich 2.0 does not simply "Plug Into" the 16146299 computer. The Ostrich 2.0 can be "Plugged Into" the 16197427 computer, without soldering. I did not mean to cause confusion. Some members will not solder.

dave w

I'm happy to solder, so long as we're not talking micro computer stuff. As long as I can do it with the naked eye, I'm good. Is there a guide anywhere I can read and see if I'm comfortable with the process? I've had a quick google, but most places lead me to here and posts by you! LOL!

[dave w]

Ok, I do't an exact procedure for installing the Moates.net Socket Booster. The basic soldering procedure would be similar to the procedure I did a posted several years ago on how to convert a 1227747 to a 27SF512 flash chip. The flash chip conversion procedure would be the same for both the 1227747 and 16146299.

Link to flash chip conversion: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?172-7747-Flash-Chip-Conversion-(27SF512)

Installing the 28 Pin ZIF (aka Zero Insertion Force) will allow the Moates.net Socket Booster to be installed, then the Ostrich 2.0 installs on top of the Moates.net Socket Booster.

dave w

[Dunksterp]

Ok, I do't an exact procedure for installing the Moates.net Socket Booster. The basic soldering procedure would be similar to the procedure I did a posted several years ago on how to convert a 1227747 to a 27SF512 flash chip. The flash chip conversion procedure would be the same for both the 1227747 and 16146299.

Link to flash chip conversion: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?172-7747-Flash-Chip-Conversion-(27SF512)

Installing the 28 Pin ZIF (aka Zero Insertion Force) will allow the Moates.net Socket Booster to be installed, then the Ostrich 2.0 installs on top of the Moates.net Socket Booster.

dave w

So list of things I need to buy :
1 x ZIF socket
1 x Socket Booster 1.0
1 x 'Ostrich 2.0

Then do I do the soldering method on my own chip, or do I need the 27SF512 chip to convert my 16146299?

[dave w]

So list of things I need to buy :
1 x ZIF socket
1 x Socket Booster 1.0
1 x 'Ostrich 2.0

Then do I do the soldering method on my own chip, or do I need the 27SF512 chip to convert my 16146299?

The 27SF512 chip conversion is an option for the 16146299, but lets focus on the Ostrich 2.0 option for now.

Your shopping list is complete for the Ostrich 2.0 configuration.

There are options we should think through.
The Ostrich 2.0 can emulate a 28 pin chip or 24 pin chip.
The 16146299 uses a 24 pin chip.
Moates.net offers a 24 pin ZIF http://www.moates.net/s1-aries-24pin-zif-socket-p-43.html?cPath=26
Moates.net offers a 24 pin DIP http://www.moates.net/d1-24pin-dip-socket-p-58.html?cPath=26

I strongly recommend installing the 24 pin "DIP" socket. The socket booster will easily fit the 24 pin "DIP".

Once the original chip holder has been removed from the 16146299, chips can be installed backwards. DO NOT INSTALL CHIPS, SOCKET BOOSTER, OR THE OSTRICH 2.0 BACKWARDS!!!!

dave w

[Dunksterp]

The 27SF512 chip conversion is an option for the 16146299, but lets focus on the Ostrich 2.0 option for now.

Your shopping list is complete for the Ostrich 2.0 configuration.

There are options we should think through.
The Ostrich 2.0 can emulate a 28 pin chip or 24 pin chip.
The 16146299 uses a 24 pin chip.
Moates.net offers a 24 pin ZIF http://www.moates.net/s1-aries-24pin-zif-socket-p-43.html?cPath=26
Moates.net offers a 24 pin DIP http://www.moates.net/d1-24pin-dip-socket-p-58.html?cPath=26

I strongly recommend installing the 24 pin "DIP" socket. The socket booster will easily fit the 24 pin "DIP".

Once the original chip holder has been removed from the 16146299, chips can be installed backwards. DO NOT INSTALL CHIPS, SOCKET BOOSTER, OR THE OSTRICH 2.0 BACKWARDS!!!!

dave w

OK, so I remove the original chip holder and solder in the 24 pin DIP socket. Then do I just plug the Ostrich 2.0 into that socket? From there I assume I then need to load a tune, or base map into it right? Or is that what Fast355 above is saying, that's he's already got a map that I can use and tweak?

Again, thanks for all your help. It's really appreciated.

[dave w]

1227747 with DIP SOCKET modified chip holder. The DIP SOCKET modified 16146299 will be very similar in appearance.

15544

Socket Booster installed on top of DIP SOCKET.

15545

The Ostrich 2.0 installs on top of the SOCKET BOOSTER, no photo available.

Moates.net support link for SOCKET BOOSTER: http://support.moates.net/socketbooster/



dave w

[Dunksterp]

I'm not sure if this will be seen here, or if it'll just stay buried? Either way, I've just purchased the Ostrich 2.0 and all the various gubbins required to get it working with my PCM. I'd like to check I've got everything ready to go.

I've also purchased a Wideband O2, that I should be fitting in the next day or two.

So, once I've got the Ostrich 2.0 up and running, I need the correct BIN file for my van right? Which I think I've found here?

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?380-16146299-ECM-Information-99

There's even a natural gas conversion BIN file.

So do I simply upload the correct BIN file to the Ostrich, and off I go? I can start tweaking from there, or is there anything else I need? What's the difference between the BIN, ADX, ADS and XDF files?

EDIT - OK, so now I understand that the BIN file is the file that should be loaded onto the Ostrich, and the XDF file is a mask, so that I can read the BIN file.

[Dunksterp]

I think I may have a natural gas bin file for a 299. I believe it was controlling spark and TCC only.

Hey, are you able to share the bin file with me? Be interested to give it a try.

Many thanks