closed loop Lterm BLM's 120 help

[halfazn]

using datamaster to log my tune i found something wrong.

Lterm BLM's are comming in at 120, but the Sterm are balanced out at 128. I don't have exhaust leaks.

Please look at my datalog and help me to pick it apart. I have blended the table in vemaster, and am waiting to upload it to see if the patch has brought me closer to 128.

below are my VE tables: starting from 20kpa up to 65kpa in increments of 5

36.3 39.5 40.6 42.2 45.3 48.4 48.8 51.2 53.9 55.9
40.2 43.0 44.5 46.5 49.6 53.5 53.9 56.3 59.0 61.3
42.2 45.3 47.3 49.2 52.7 56.6 57.0 59.8 63.3 64.8
44.9 48.8 50.8 53.1 56.6 60.9 62.1 65.2 68.4 69.5
47.7 50.8 53.1 55.5 59.4 63.7 65.2 68.4 71.1 72.3
47.3 52.3 55.5 57.4 60.9 65.2 66.4 69.1 71.9 73.4
50.8 54.3 56.6 58.2 61.7 66.4 67.6 69.5 71.9 73.4
52.7 56.3 57.8 59.8 62.5 67.6 68.8 70.3 72.3 73.8
56.6 60.2 62.1 64.1 66.8 70.3 73.0 74.6 77.0 78.1

My question now is how do I get my BLM's to balance closer to 128 and not a lean 120? Thanks in advance

[halfazn]

I am unable to upload the .uni file but can email if requested. New to forum and 1st day tuning and logging. Thanks

[dave w]

I am unable to upload the .uni file but can email if requested. New to forum and 1st day tuning and logging. Thanks

Welcome to tuning. We all beginners at one point. The .uni file can be attached, but needs to be attached as a zip file. We will need to know what definition file the .uni file is.

dave w

[EagleMark]

Tell me what size the DataMaster .uni logs are and I'll add some room and make them attachable.

[RobertISaar]

120 isn't too bad, and it's actually indicating that your table is slightly too rich.

[halfazn]

I have ziped both bin files and uni files, for reference. The only changes Commanded that will be different in the bin file is idle settings. I figured out how to change that last night. The uni file is from datamasterEE 4.0, and the bin file is from tuner cats.

Correct me if I am wrong but I read BLM < 128 was lean and BLM >128 was rich? I may be reading it wrong though.

My engine bolt ons are as follows.

95 Impala SS, CC502 218/224 112 lsa, 1.5 roller rockers, mid length headers 1 5/8 primaries, full 2.5" cat back true duals w/ H pipe, cai, 2200 lockup stall, 3.73 eaton posi rear gear, unmolested iron heads, MSD opti, MSD coil, LT4 knock module.

Thanks

[dave w]

I'm booked solid today with things to do. I'll take a look at the attached files late tomorrow afternoon. Less than 128 Rich / more than 128 Lean.

dave w

[FSJ Guy]

120's are rich. Not too rich, really, but rich.

Remember, that doesn't mean that your ENGINE is running rich. It just means that the fuel table you have programmed is too rich and the ECM is pulling fuel in order to make the engine run at the correct mixture.

Hope that helps until someone can look at your logs.

[EagleMark]

128 is perfect but in real world you can not obtain this perfectly every day. Even if you get 128 everywhere today when weather chenges so will it. So it's a number to shot for and be close to.

Higher then 128 is lean adding fuel
Lower then 128 is rich taking away fuel.

Most all of your log the car is not warmed up so will be adding fuel/choke. Begining of your log is still open loop so BLM is not in effect. When you get to end of log in closed loop, coolant temp still rising you are running pretty good.

Logs should be started after car is completly warmed up and even driven a little. Want a perfect log for starter VE table then do that then, turn off car, discconect batterey or pull PCM fuse for a miute to clear BLM learn, start car, wait for closed loop and then log! First five minutes will be what you base your VE table at. Ooops! Gave away a secret...

[halfazn]

Thanks, that makes sense. I will try the reset BLM learn tip out. How do i make the car more responsive off the line. If I give more than 25 percent travel from a stop it bogs small audible pops then finnaly takes off?

[EagleMark]

This is probably from the cam change. Normally this is an adjustment to AE, Aceleration Enrichment, like a accelerater pump on a carb. But with the LT1 being a MAF system it would be in the MAF Sensor Calibration measuring air entering the motor after your VE tables are in order. I have tuned an LT1 with cam simalar to yours in SD mode and MAF calibrations untouched with no issues, I'm glad to becuase I do not know correct procedure for tuning MAF calibrations?

Sure you got good seals from airbox through MAF to intake?

I don't know of anything here on tuning MAF? What I was going to do was look at Thirdgen.org for tuning the $6E which is MAF only, no MAP sensor, no SD Speed Density to learn more on MAF tuning.

[RobertISaar]

MAF still uses AE, it's slightly different in how it operates though. obviously no D-MAP component. the later stuff that mixed both S-D and MAF... no idea, i've never played with them.

[EagleMark]

I can't find a parameter for it in the XDF and have not had time or need to see if it's available in hack? Can't find any AE in TunerCat either? With that have been told it was dependent on MAF Calibration. Airflow change = Fuel change...

[RobertISaar]

in $EE? that is possibly one of the least completed XDF/TDFs out there in terms of stuff that's actually in the calibration compared to what is defined.

5B is a good example of MAF in that era. only used in 94-95 3800 cars/vans, some supercharged, most not, but they all use high frequency MAFs and no MAP sensors. it's XDF has accell enrich stuff defined.

[halfazn]

I have everything buttoned up pretty tight vacume wist intake through throttle body. I have run the VE calibrations made from vemaster into my PCM and have it looking a little closer to balanced than lean. New logs and tune update posted. I made idle adjustments to 700 from 750 get my lope back once the engine is warmed and in closed idle. I do not know how that effects my MPG setting it lower, but I love the sound.

I am looking around to see what other people have done to get the snappy throttle response while running cam. It bugs me when I step on it from a stop and it bogs. I hope that once I dial in my VE tables that I can take that step.

I am going to play around with my transmision to see how to firm up my shift points while not in PE mode. It used to shift nice and hard from 1<2 gear from part throttle. It feels smooth and slushy right now.

[RobertISaar]

generally, a lower RPM idle will increase fuel economy by an amount you'll never see. :laugh:

for proof, take a look at IAC counts. you'll notice them slightly lower(unless you're running significantly less SA where you're now idling, in which case they could be higher). since at idle the IAC is the main path of air into the engine, less counts = less air = less fuel.

[EagleMark]

I am unable to upload the .uni file but can email if requested. New to forum and 1st day tuning and logging. Thanks

uni is now a supported attachment.

[halfazn]

My runs are making the files slightly larger than allowed. I am also unable to upload my bin files. The car is running better now though. Somewhere during full warm up and 10 minutes into the run the idle surges for a little bit. I am going to clean my MAF and just for the heck of it replace all of my Vacumme lines today if it stops raining.

[dave w]

I have ziped both bin files and uni files, for reference. The only changes Commanded that will be different in the bin file is idle settings. I figured out how to change that last night. The uni file is from datamasterEE 4.0, and the bin file is from tuner cats.

Correct me if I am wrong but I read BLM < 128 was lean and BLM >128 was rich? I may be reading it wrong though.

My engine bolt ons are as follows.

95 Impala SS, CC502 218/224 112 lsa, 1.5 roller rockers, mid length headers 1 5/8 primaries, full 2.5" cat back true duals w/ H pipe, cai, 2200 lockup stall, 3.73 eaton posi rear gear, unmolested iron heads, MSD opti, MSD coil, LT4 knock module.

Thanks

I've looked at the files attached. I'd like to help, but I just don't have the time at this moment to learn some of the things I need to know about $EE tuning. The DataMatster TTS Histogram shows four Air Flow parameters. I'm seeing there are four MAF tables. I'm also seeing two VE tables. At the moment, I don't know which is controlling which MAP / MAF for fuel / spark. From what I can tell, using the DataMaster TTS Histogram, the computer is doing a good job of keeping the AFR happy. I'm seeing the Histogram Short Term showing lean, while the Histogram Long Term is rich. I wish I had more time to learn / help, but I don't.

dave w

[EagleMark]

I have everything buttoned up pretty tight vacume wist intake through throttle body. I have run the VE calibrations made from vemaster into my PCM and have it looking a little closer to balanced than lean. New logs and tune update posted. I made idle adjustments to 700 from 750 get my lope back once the engine is warmed and in closed idle. I do not know how that effects my MPG setting it lower, but I love the sound.

I am looking around to see what other people have done to get the snappy throttle response while running cam. It bugs me when I step on it from a stop and it bogs. I hope that once I dial in my VE tables that I can take that step.

I am going to play around with my transmision to see how to firm up my shift points while not in PE mode. It used to shift nice and hard from 1<2 gear from part throttle. It feels smooth and slushy right now.95 is a little differant then 94 in the trans has an extra wire for PWM TCC, but the mask is the same for both years in TunerPro and TunerCat. So I don't know if you can use the entire bin file to start like I did? I used a 1994 Caddilac V4P RPO code Towing option bin file to start as the tranny points are way differant then any other LT1 bin file. Shift points are higher, drives much better, kickdown actually works! Then used shift times from performance table in regular table and that was all it needed to acually feel shift points. It actually drives more like a performance car or truck instead of one big slush... tranny temps also went down.

Be very careful about changing shift times in one table without understanding how it affects another! This is how I learned to just start with the Caddy Tow bin file. When I changed my origanal bin, at highway cruise it shifted back and forth from 3,4,3,4,3,4,3,4,3,4 and I didn't even feel it, noticed when I got a tranny hot error code.

You could try to use the compare funtion in TunerPro and copy all tranny tables from the 94 Caddy tow bin to 95 whatever bin, that and performance shift times in regular table was all I needed to be happy. Then do a tranny datalog to see what is happening!

I wonder if lowering idle RPM to get the cam lope has got you off tune and caused the bog at snapping the throttle from idle? Usually bigger cams like a higher idle... EFI does not like lope, that puts it in a constant state of correction. Your cam has lowered idle vacuum, now you made it even lower by reducing idle RPM...

[EagleMark]

My runs are making the files slightly larger than allowed. I am also unable to upload my bin files. The car is running better now though. Somewhere during full warm up and 10 minutes into the run the idle surges for a little bit. I am going to clean my MAF and just for the heck of it replace all of my Vacumme lines today if it stops raining.What is the extension of bin file? I will raise file size for uni.

[EagleMark]

I've looked at the files attached. I'd like to help, but I just don't have the time at this moment to learn some of the things I need to know about $EE tuning. The DataMatster TTS Histogram shows four Air Flow parameters. I'm seeing there are four MAF tables. I'm also seeing two VE tables. At the moment, I don't know which is controlling which MAP / MAF for fuel / spark. From what I can tell, using the DataMaster TTS Histogram, the computer is doing a good job of keeping the AFR happy. I'm seeing the Histogram Short Term showing lean, while the Histogram Long Term is rich. I wish I had more time to learn / help, but I don't.

dave wThe four MAF tables are just increase of air from nothing to everything. The 2 VE tables are what you like for idle and off idle. There is a point in mask where fueling changes from Sequential to batch which is very low, more like an idle thing.

For the OP using VE master it will only work to IIRC 3000 RPM and has to be done in SD mode which can be checked/unchecked in switches. This removes MAF from the equastion to get VE tables correct.

[dave w]

The four MAF tables are just increase of air from nothing to everything. The 2 VE tables are what you like for idle and off idle. There is a point in mask where fueling changes from Sequential to batch which is very low, more like an idle thing.

For the OP using VE master it will only work to IIRC 3000 RPM and has to be done in SD mode which can be checked/unchecked in switches. This removes MAF from the equastion to get VE tables correct.

VE Master will work with $EE:homer:

dave w

[dave w]

VE Master will work with $EE:homer:

dave w

Ok, I have enough time to work with VE Master $EE. I set VE Master to 4000 RPM / BLM 128. See attached .bin after VE Master, and the screen shot showing the compare of the two VE Tables.

dave w

[EagleMark]

Maybe it was another VE master I used but remember 3000 RPM. Seems your adjustments went HUGE after that?

[dave w]

Maybe it was another VE master I used but remember 3000 RPM. Seems your adjustments went HUGE after that?

Ok, this time I left VE Master with the default settings (blm 124 / rpm 3000)

dave w

[halfazn]

I have done the same but used 128 for default blm. On another subject I am not sure if under normal driving my TCC should lock
up. It is set for 2200, but I thought it should only lock up under cruise and wide open throttle. Feel like it changes bear and slips at 2200. I will work that later, its just bugging me fr some reason. I have the BLM set decent thus far, and have progressed to my extended tables. It leans at average 140 at 95 percent tps from 3 grand all the way to 4900 so i added .4 percent timing to those tables between 55 to 85 kpa tables. I will log once it stops raining and the humidity goes down.

Hopefully all the ve tables will be good within the week so that I can adress the bog that I get from a stop and roll. Thanks soo far guys. You are all verry helpful on this forum.

[EagleMark]

Ok, this time I left VE Master with the default settings (blm 124 / rpm 3000)

dave wSee those numbers look about right from stock motor to cammed motor don't they? But read his post and he's lean above that so maybe it needs added and smoothed out from 3000 up? Or what I said below...


It leans at average 140 at 95 percent tps from 3 grand all the way to 4900 so i added .4 percent timing to those tables between 55 to 85 kpa tablesThat's probably in PE and I don't think that little or any timing is going to add fuel. Look for your PE fuel at WOT and add some there!

[halfazn]

I have tuned an LT1 with cam simalar to yours in SD mode and MAF calibrations untouched with no issues, I'm glad to becuase I do not know correct procedure for tuning MAF calibrations?

You have just got my attention with this. I would prefer a speed density tune in open loop/closed. If you have had successful tunes on LT1 with similar cam, I would like to see how this effects my setup. I am curious if you can assist me in this area while using my .bin file. I would rather be richer than the fixed 14.7:1 ratio used in closed loop so that I can maximize my potential with my current set up. I am not afraid of MPG it means almost nothing to me, I only want performance for a DD and for track. I would like to keep my tune thus far to pass inspections, and venture into the speed density route for my DD.

V/R

[EagleMark]

Well doing the SD tune will only work closed loop or you will not get any BLM learn numbers to adjust your VE table from. From there you could lean fuel table by % to achieve a lower AFR, but this will change with weather. Correct way to tune open loop would be wide band O2 sensor. Still changes with weather... but like I said once the SD tune was spot on and I enabled MAF it was better!

That said, with this ECM this can all be acheived closed loop and still have 12.8 to 1 AFR at WOT with no drivability issues and good MPG if you keep your foot out of it.

Passing inspection is another whole topic depending on what your state does?

[halfazn]

OK, sorry I have been editing my post I mean to correct my tables in SD from the closed loop. If you could look at my BIN and help from here in the SD route. I am open to suggestions.

V/R

[RobertISaar]

but like I said once the SD tune was spot on and I enabled MAF it was better!

and it should, except for the cases where the MAF is actually reading airflow more than once(high amounts of reversion), a problem speed-density and alpha-n don't have. that being said, i like the idea of blended airflow calculations, much more........ consistency, i want to say?

[halfazn]

I am confused, are you saying that you are more comfortable with the MAF making corrections in closed loop. Versus PE mode and MAF disabled?

[halfazn]

I have run this log, and is way more responsive. I am much happier now. Snap throttle is responsive now, and my BLM's look good. I have Enrichment through fuel and adjusted my shift firmness by copying my wot tables, and also increased timing down low with fuel enrichment. Almost there, now I need to reduce lean tables through my map. I will try increasing my timing until I get knock and then reduce each table by .2 until it looks as good as I can get it. See attachment and please give your impressions. Thanks