AutoProm ADC Interface Channels Set up in TunerPro!

[EagleMark]

The Moates Autoprom is an all in one Chip Tuners dream tool! Not only a data logging cable, chip burner and emulator but also has a three extra channels from a ADC input for wide band O2 sensors or whatever you need. This article will be how to set up those three channels into your ADX file for TunerPro RT V5.

For more information on the AutoProm check out the Moates site at:
http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-package-usb-version.html

Basic need for the extra channels is to log your wide band O2 sensor in same log file. But with three channels you can run a wide band O2 sensor for each side of a V8 engine and still have one left over for extra IAT/MAT sensor to measure before and after boost air temps!

So lets start with the APADC wire inputs, looking at back of AutoProm they are Channel 3, Channel 2, Channel 1 and Ground next to the USB cable. If you have a wide band O2 sensor setup already with a gauge or data log cable you can run a ground wire from same ground lug on engine block into car for use with the AutoProm, one ground will cover all three circuits.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/AutoProm-ADC-Interface.jpg


Load your ADX data logging file in TunerPro and click on Acquisition, Edit Definition.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/edit-definition.jpg


Or the 2 gears to Edit ADX.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/edit-adx.jpg


First thing we have to find is the payload size. Under commands look at Data Transfer for 160 Baud ECM.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/payload-size.jpg


Or usually Mode 1 Message 1 for 8192 Baud ECM/PCM.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/payload-size-2.jpg


The AutoProm adds three channels on top of this Payload. For the Payload size of 63. Have to count from 0 so 0 to 62 is the 63, the last byte used in ALDL data stream is 62.

For 63 Byte Payload the AutoProm Channels will be:
Also the channels on the AutoProm are not in exact order of data stream.
Channel 1 is 65 and 66
Channel 2 is 63 and 64
Channel 3 is 67 and 68
This was done and tested in $0E-16197427-V1-72-IH.adx file on my sons 72 IH truck.

We will use the Payload size of 20 for the rest of this example ( have to know your Payload size from existing ADX file, see above). Have to count from 0, so 0 to 19 is the 20, the last byte used in ALDL data stream is 19.

We will be using 16 bits for source data for each channel of AutoProm. Each Byte has 8 bits. So this is 2 Bytes or 16 bit per channel on AutoProm.

Remember the channels on the AutoProm are not in exact order of data stream.
Channel 1 is 22 and 23
Channel 2 is 20 and 21
Channel 3 is 24 and 25
This was done and tested in $42-1227747-V4.3.adx on my 1990 Suburban.


So lets get some values set up for the three channels of the AutoProm! Open values.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/open-values.jpg

Then Add New Item.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/add-new-item.jpg

Add new item information.
1. Title of what the channel will be used for.
2. Unique ID, if it is same as something already in ADX it will prompt you that the ID is not unique.
3. Description of what the channel is for and can keep your conversions here, notes or whatever you need!
4. Set Data Type.
5. Set Stock Units.
6. Set Units Display.
7. Packet Offset to Channel 1, Packet Offset is 22 in this case. TunerPro will automatically fill in the Hex address in left box.
8. Source Data for AutoProm is 16 bit.
9. Range low will be 0.00 and Range high will be 5.00 for 0 to 5 volts.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/add-new-item-info.jpg


Now we need to set the conversion. Information coming in is Analog then converted to 1024 bits Digital, we want to convert that back to the analog reading of 0 to 5 volts. Click on Conversion Tab at bottom of value window.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/conversion-click.jpg


Then click on the Set button.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/conversion-set-2.jpg


The AutoProm Channels are 1024 bits! This is 4 times as much resolution as the stock ECM/PCM which usually uses 256 bits. Since we are using 16 bit/2 bytes we need to do the math and TunerPro is already set up for this! Remember it is Byte 22 and 23, we set it for 16 bit.

Byte 22 is MSB, Byte 23 is LSB. The equation is MSB * 256 + LSB = Value (Value / 1024) * 5 = 0 to 5 Volts.

Lets do it back wards so you can see how we come up with the equation. 5 volts (is the value coming in as Analog) divided by 1024 bits (Digital) that the AutoProm uses equals 0.0048828125. So if the AutoProm see's 1024 bits times 0.0048828125 it comes out to what we want to see in volts, 5.0

Conversion for 0 to 5 volts is:
(X * 0.0048828125) + 0.000000

The + 0.00000 is for offset, it is not needed right now for volts but later you will see how it works for Air Fuel Ratio (AFR).

Add the conversion and click OK.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/conversion-add-2.jpg


Click Save to save your new value to your ADX file!


Since we set up a new value for AutoProm Channel 1 volts which can be used for anything, but in this case it will be for Wide Band O2 sensor so lets set up a second value for AutoProm Channel 1 AFR. You can have 2 or more values for same Packet Offset to show different values. With the Wide Band O2 sensor it is great to see that the volts are correct for setting up the Wide Band O2 controller, but what we really want to see is the AFR, Air Fuel Ratio!

For getting proper AFR you have to set up your Wide Band controller for 0 to 5 volts. Here's an example of the Wide Band software and settings for Inovate LC-1 Wide Band O2 controller we are using below. You can skip this for now if your not ready and continue with setting up the value. Then come back and adjust to your Wide Band O2 sensors readings in the value we are creating in TunerPro.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/wide-band-setup.jpg



So lets add another value. Click on Add New Item just like last time and we will set it up for AFR.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/add-new-item.jpg


Add new item information.
1. Title of what the channel will be used for.
2. Unique ID, if it is same as something already in ADX it will prompt you that the ID is not unique.
3. Description of what the channel is for and can keep your conversions here, notes or whatever you need!
4. Set Data Type.
5. Set Stock Units.
6. Set Units Display.
7. Packet Offset to Channel 1, Packet Offset is 22 in this case. TunerPro will automatically fill in the Hex address in left box.
8. Source Data for AutoProm is 16 bit.
9. Range low will be 7.35 and Range high will be 22.39 (TunerPro will truncate to 22.3899 which is fine) for the LC1 Wide Band O2 Sensor. Other sensors may have different values.
10. Set the Alarms for whatever you would like for low and high, click Enable.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/add-second-item.jpg


Click on the Conversion Tab at bottom.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/conversion-click-2.jpg


Then click the Set button.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/conversion-set.jpg


For the LC-1 WideBand 0V = 7.35 AFR and 5V = 22.39 AFR.
AFR of 7.35 to 22.39 is a difference of 15.04 divided by 1024 = 0.0146875

Conversion for this would be:
(X * 0.0146875) + 7.350000

Adding the offset makes 0 volts 7.35 AFR

For other Wide Band controllers that have 0V = 10.00 AFR and 5V = 20.00 AFR.
AFR of 10.00 to 20.00 is a difference of 10.00 divided by 1024 = 0.009765625

Conversion for this would be:
(X * 0.009765625) + 10.00000

Adding the offset makes 0 volts 10.00 AFR

Add the conversion and click OK
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/conversion-add.jpg



Click Save to save your new value to your ADX file!

Rinse and repeat for AutoProm Channel 2 and 3!

Here's a shot of the dash board in TunerPro looking at all three channels from AutoProm. Channel 1 has Volts and AFR. This was done on my test bench with 1.5 volts going into all three channels.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/images/autoprom/tunerpro-dash.jpg


Notes: Probably the most important part of setting up three channels on the AutoProm that makes it hard to get the channel correct is a few details.

1. AutoProm Channels are not in order of ALDL packets. Look at the first picture of this thread.
If the ALDL packets were in order of the channels it would be: 3 | 1 | 2 | Ground.

2. AutoProm Channels are 16 bit, so you need 2 ALDL packet offsets. If you don't get them correct your reading is not even close but you will still get a reading!

2. With nothing hooked up to the three channels you still get some readings. (see 3.)

3. ADCs are very sensitive. When you connect something to one of them, you drive the signal to a known state. The way the ADCs on the APU1 are done on an electrical level allows them to float a little, which means that they are quite susceptible to picking up noise from other channels. If you want the noise to go away, tie unused channels to ground or just ignore signals on other channels.

4. When signal going into a channel is set up correctly to ALDL is extremely accurate! I tested signal going in to what is displayed and it is perfect to .00001 with Digital Volt Meter. But because of notes 1, 2 and 3 can be very hard to diagnose.

Special Thanks for technical information for this article to:

Craig Moates http://www.moates.net/
Dave Blundell http://www.moates.net/
Mark Mansaur http://www.tunerpro.net/
gregs78cam http://www.gearhead-efi.com/

Keep an eye on this page and if any mistakes are found or more information can be added it will be updated here!

Stay Tuned! :rockon:

[T2000]

Great stuff - thanks so much for this!

I'll edit my ADX's and let you know how this goes.

Cheers, Chris

[gregs78cam]

Good job on this, Mark, one of the best write-ups I have read. Glad you got it figured out.

[T2000]

Sorry for the rookie question... but I am assuming that the body size needs to also increase by the same amount as the payload increase.

So we add 6 to both the payload and body size?

[EagleMark]

Nope, no changes needed to payload and body size.

[PJG1173]

where was this writeup last year? this is much better than the one I used to stumble through setting it up.

[T2000]

Again , many thanks for the excellent writeup.

It is really excellent & helped alot.

I finally got some data which is close... but I have one issue.

I can deal with offsets and factors to allow for hardware variations, but my issue seems to be something a little more random.

With any fixed voltage being supplied to any of the ADC channels I find that the output to the TP dash or monitor is almost perfect - apart from 1 small but significant issue.
At random intervals the voltage will spike high or low by around 50% (or more).
The voltage is fixed and verified by multimeter.

The output is as follows:
2447
The unused +channels are wired to earth.

Any ideas would be very welcome.

Cheers, Chris

[Six_Shooter]

Are there other errors in the log of other parameters that match in time with those errors?

[EagleMark]

Are there other errors in the log of other parameters that match in time with those errors?What he said...

Did the adx file work without glitch before this? What adx?

[T2000]

I certainly havent noticed the glitch or error in other logged data... certainly not the usual suspects anyway (RPM,MAP,TPS,SPARK etc)

The XDF and ADX is OSE_12P which if you are interested is documented in detail here: http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=356

I (http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=356) have attached the complete OSE_12P package which has the XDF & ADX.
OSE12P can be run on any '808, '165 or '3082 ECM & supports 2-8 cyl.

I run my own variation of the 1BAR Petrol ADX which gives me different dash's and the WB (I'm at work atm so dont have access to it)


I would be interested to know your theories in the meantime. You question re other errant data at the same point in time... indicative of something which you have seen before?

For the purpose of my previous experiment the APU1 was not connected to the ECM at all! I isolated the APU1 and just fed a known voltage to the ADC.

Thanks for your time gents :thumbsup:

[EagleMark]

We have our first tester of this and it works on dash board as I showed above. But it is not showing up in data log?

[EagleMark]

The XDF and ADX is OSE_12P which if you are interested is documented in detail here: http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=356

I (http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=356) have attached the complete OSE_12P package which has the XDF & ADX.
OSE12P can be run on any '808, '165 or '3082 ECM & supports 2-8 cyl.

I run my own variation of the 1BAR Petrol ADX which gives me different dash's and the WB (I'm at work atm so dont have access to it)


I would be interested to know your theories in the meantime. You question re other errant data at the same point in time... indicative of something which you have seen before?

For the purpose of my previous experiment the APU1 was not connected to the ECM at all! I isolated the APU1 and just fed a known voltage to the ADC.

Thanks for your time gents :thumbsup:Probably interesting read, but what is this for? Which of the adx files did you use from that zip?

[T2000]

Probably interesting read, but what is this for? Which of the adx files did you use from that zip?

"OSE_$12PV111_1BAR - Petrol.adx"
&
"OSE12P V111 - 1,2 and 3 bar.xdf"


& I have tried both (on separate vehicles):

"OSE $12P V111 APNX V6.bin"
"OSE $12P V111 BLCF V8.bin"

Currently testing on Australian GM (Holden) vehicles with '808 ECM's and Buick v6 and Holden v8


It is almost as if the Offset has some how changed between packets and then reverts back ??? if that makes sense?

Cheers, Chris

[EagleMark]

Your not from this side of the pond are you? :laugh:

I got it on my list to look at in AM. Got no experiance with these but will see if I notice something that may be affecting it.

Right now the big issue is this works on dash board but does not save in data log xdl file?

[T2000]

Your not from this side of the pond are you? :laugh:

I got it on my list to look at in AM. Got no experiance with these but will see if I notice something that may be affecting it.

Right now the big issue is this works on dash board but does not save in data log xdl file?

Yeah last time I looked there is a big ditch full of water right between my place & your place :yikes:

Strange I am sure that my attempts at WB02 and ADC1/2/3 logging saved in the xdl file.

I will confirm asap as that might help you to track the problem.

Thanks again for your efforts,


Regards, Chris

[EagleMark]

I have not had any luck getting the data showing to be in log but have only been working on a 160 Baud on test bench, works fine just can't get it in log?

Do you have the ADX with the AutoProm stuff installed? the files you had above in Zip don't seem to? This glitch I have not found, always solid data in dash, wish was in log...

[RobertISaar]

i get the feeling..... that payload and body size may need to be tweaked to have their information saved to the XDL.

just a thought.

MM would know best. i'm still not 100% certain how the autoprom knows WHEN to transmit it's data, unless it reads the packet logic as it comes along, recognizes the checksum and immediately starts injecting data.

[EagleMark]

Tried making adjustments to payload size and all data from car and AutoProm goes bad!

Mark at TunerPro and David and Craig from Moates are looking into it. Just did 2 test logs for them to verify while hooked to Suburban running and sent them logs and ADX file.

Same on car with data flowing as on bench, AutoProm data shows fine either way, but does not show up in data log?

[T2000]

Hi guys, sorry for the late reply - I have done a fair amount of troubleshooting in the hope that I can resolve my own problems as well as trying to help with yours.

Good news for me!
I have managed to resolve my spikes (or glitches) by simply adding a non polarised capacitor to filter a noisey signal from the wideband controller caused when it tries to heat the sensor.
I can also confirm that when I record a log the ADC data sometimes trys to disappear... it is weird, I have noted the behaviour that you guys have described but when I restarted TP5 and opened my logs the ADC data was there! It has always been available in my logs as dash data and History tables but has sometimes disappeared from my monitors.

Anyway... here is some more stuff for you to look over, hopefully it helps with your issues.

[T2000]

Try increasing Payload size by 6 and leave everything else unchanged - worked for me ;)

[EagleMark]

Hmmmm? Does not work on $42 which is old 160 Baud, messed up all other data... what ECM mask did this work on?

Moates and TunerPro were working on this when I left and I have not could up to email yet for a reply. Will update when I do...

[T2000]

Hmmmm? Does not work on $42 which is old 160 Baud, messed up all other data... what ECM mask did this work on?Moates and TunerPro were working on this when I left and I have not could up to email yet for a reply. Will update when I do...

Hi Mark;

As per my earlier post the XDF is http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=2456&d=1337727128"OSE12P V111 - 1,2 and 3 bar.xdf"which is an enhanced version of $12

I am running this on an old '808 ECM http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/1227808/which natively only supports 160 Baud.

I have added the SXR chip to get 8192 baud ALDL...The ALDL data is going directly from my SXR upgrade board to the APU1 and not via the vehicles ALDL connector (although that is possible it was just undesirable for my application)

I have successfully tested the APU .adx upgrade for ADC data on the following combo's so far:

ECM: 16176424 with $11 (Native 8k ALDL)
304 cu in V8 (Holden)
$11 based mask with a bin based on BPMN9322

ECM: 1227808 with $12 (Native 160b ALDL but with SXR upgrade delivering 8k)
231.3 cu in V6 (Buick/Holden L27 - similar to the Buick LN3)
$12 based mask with a bin based on "OSE $12P V111 APNX V6" - which is in that OSE$12P zip I posted

ECM: 1227808 with $12 (Native 160b ALDL but with SXR upgrade delivering 8k)
304 cu in V8 (Holden)
$12 based mask, $12 based mask with a bin based on "OSE $12P V111 BLCF V8" - which is also in that OSE$12P zip.

All 3 tests have worked great for me.:jfj:

[EagleMark]

Well that's good news! I've had one other person say that raising payload by the 6 also worked, but it to was a 8192 Baud system, this has not worked for me on a 160 Baud... yet...

[T2000]

Well that's good news! I've had one other person say that raising payload by the 6 also worked, but it to was a 8192 Baud system, this has not worked for me on a 160 Baud... yet...

If the wind & rain stops sometime soon then I'll throw a standard 1227808 ECM back into my "mobile testbench".
It doesnt have the SXR upgrade so it can only output 160baud from the standard ALDL connector.
The combo will run the BAAM0265 bin on $FB xdf
I'll see if I can find a suitable ADX to edit....

[hmx]

Is there any update to the lack of data recorded in the TunerPro log files for the WBO2 sensor? I have my WBO2 connected, see it on the dash, and see it on my DB gauge from innovate. The only problem is that when I look at the datalogs, the WB sensor data is all zeros on voltage. I've tried closing TP5 and reopening, as someone else mentioned, but that gives junk numbers. Also, I noticed in my logs that my coolant temp starts out at ~190 deg F (the car was warm initially) then cools off to 30 deg F as I drive it?! Really? I think not.

In any case, the whole point of having the AutoProm and TunerPro RT for me was to be able to datalog the WBO2 readings in with the rest of my readings so I can figure out what's going on. I'd like to know if there has been a fix for this and cannot find any other information on this specific problem.

I'm running an 8746 with a $61, an innovate LC-1, and the AutoProm with TP5. The car is a LO5 TBI 350.

[EagleMark]

I've never heard back from Mark at TunerPro on this?

EDIT: Just sent Mark M at TunerPro an email about this, so we will soon know.

[hmx]

Great! Thanks!

[hmx]

Just had a thought... do you think that the faster response time (faster than 160 baud) of the innovate LC-1 has anything to do with the problem? You can slow down the sampling rate from the LC-1 if need be. I'll play with it and see if I can get it to work.

[EagleMark]

Mark M from TunerPro RT just contacted me aqnd he has re-produced the issue in 160 Baud ECM. Fix will be in next release! :jfj:

[hmx]

Fantastic! Look forward to that. I may still play with the baud rate when I get a chance, but it sounds like it's a problem with TPRT. Thanks for your help!

Edit: Wow. Looks like it was released today!

[EagleMark]

He said it was in software.

[dzidaV8]

I'm having problems with configuring those analog inputs. Does autoprom have to be in APU mode for them to work?
I'm datalogging LT1 PCM using V3.8.adx. It works fine when autoprom is set in pass-thru mode. When set to APU (with settings changed in tunerpro accordingly), datalogging shows random, garbage data. Do I need to use different ADX when in APU mode?
Thanks for any of your help, I ran out of ideas how to fix it...

[350yj]

Pardon my ignorance, but I have searched on how exactly to connect the LC1 to the APU1. What wires need to be connected where? Does anyone have a diagram?

[T2000]

Pardon my ignorance, but I have searched on how exactly to connect the LC1 to the APU1. What wires need to be connected where? Does anyone have a diagram?

You only need 2 wires from your WBo2 to the APU1's ADC connector.
Analog signal voltage is normally 0 to 5v. Just need the Ground and Signal wires connected.

LC1: from http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf

"2. The BLUE and WHITE wires should all be grounded together to a solid ground source. Thebest possible ground source would be the battery ground (-) post."
** From this connection also run a wire to the APU1 Analog Gnd (Look at Post1 in this thread)
"6. Optionally, the YELLOW (Analog out 1) and/or BROWN (Analog out 2) can be connectedto the analog inputs of other devices such as data loggers, ECUs, or gauges. If either one orboth of these wires are not being used, isolate and tape the wire(s) out of the way."
** Run the Yellow to the APU1 Analog1 (Channel 1) (again Look at Post1 in this thread)

​Goodluck!

[tmellott89]

Just recently got an lc-2 on amazon for $149. First WB to APU1. I've read some where saying to wire a relay in. #1 is relay needed? #2 could you run controller GRD to APU1 GRD/ then 12 foot wire from APU1 to battery? Or should they both be ran up front to GRD.

[tmellott89]

Got the lc-2 wired up and working,I'm pretty sure adx file is setup correctly and using correct channels,I ran both grounds to the same lug on the block. But my readings in tunerpro are about .5 higher than innovates Logworks software. Anyone else ever have this problem ?

[Kitch]

Yep.
Wideband O2 setup questions (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5424-Wideband-O2-setup-questions)

[tmellott89]

Yeah I know that's an option even for the 165' ecm I have. But there has to be another way around it while using APU1.My guess you use ecm now for wideband? Does it help to recalibrate wideband for 0-5 volt being 10-20? I'd rather use APU1.

[moquinn]

I have followed your directions and tried several times but can not get it to save. It will save everything but the equation. Any ideas why?

[woody80z28]

Thanks to this thread I figured out my wideband.

The analog AEM 0-5v is only accurate from 0.5-4.5v.
http://aemelectronics.com/files/instructions/30-5130%20Analog%20Wideband%20UEGO%20Gauge%20Gasoline %20AFR.pdf
So of the 1024, 0-102 and 921-1024 should be ignored when figuring the 9.5 AFR difference (8.5-18 sweep), 9.5 / 819 = .01159951.

So for an AEM 30-5130 Analog Wideband the equation is (X * .0115991) + 7.3125.

I checked it against the table in their PDF and it is good to go. Hopefully this can help someone in the future. Cause it definitely tripped me up.

[woody80z28]

Ok, I fired the car and I'm getting strange results in my log. Wondering if it may have something to do with the age of my Autoprom - I got it used in 2010.

My channels are external and plug into the AP via 1394 firewire cable. Here's a pic:
https://i.imgur.com/xKOEmG2.jpg

There are jumpers for gain at 0.3x and 1x that I am unfamiliar with. Anyone seen these?

Also, I'm using channel 3 but packet 65 seems to be the best match. AFR jumps from 7-16:1 about every half second while the gauge shows 12. I'll put a multimeter on it and check the wires themselves too.

[wsherrard]

I may have missed it and this may be a dumb question but... is all this the same for the LM-2?

[woody80z28]

Ok, I found this how-to on the Moates site that shows the old Firewire adapter.
http://static.moates.net/zips/wideband_datalog_tunerpro_lm1.pdf
The 0.3gain is to use 0-12v inputs (I don't know why I didn't think of that.) So I put on 1x gain, but it's still not working. Checked the leads from the wideband with a multimeter and they are correct. I set up my ADX to read AFR, V and raw # for the 3 packets and swapped the wires all over and it's nowhere near accurate at any of them.
I found a replacement Firewire deal on Moates, but I'm wondering if there's any way to check if it's the adapter or the Autoprom itself. Any idea?
http://www.moates.net/apadc-ad-connector-for-apu1-p-109.html?cPath=64

[woody80z28]

I forgot to update this with a fix. I got some support from Dave at Moates. He said those adapters never go bad, and he has never seen issues with the input channels on an Autoprom that didn't have a bunch of other problems. He took a look and my problem was the "body size" in the ADX I downloaded. It was 66 and should have been 67.