choke adjustment on 7747

[hammertime371]

hey guys id like to adjust my choke on my tbi. i get some backfires in the exhaust when i first start the engine for about 5 mins or so. doesnt do it every day. i see there are several places to adjust in tunerpro so im not sure which to mess with.

[EagleMark]

It doesn't do it every day? Was weather changing dramatically each day?

First you have to get VE table correct because everything is an adjustment off that.

I've been helping Hammertime get his tune in order and the last BLM data adjusted some VE tables over 100, so you don't have enough fuel yet for your engine. No need to find choke issues if your going to change VE fuel table.

I'll attach a bin with items turned off for recording BLM and have raised the BPW a little to see if it can get enough fuel at your setting of 19 PSI fuel pressure.

If this does not work the calculater says you need 23 PSI with 5.7L 61 PPH injectors to support 300ish HP on your 5.7L Chevy engine.

So run this bin and do another data log and we will see how it does. Start log after totally warmed up and driven a little, then start a recording and do varied driving and a wot run.

[hammertime371]

well infact its been about 35-40 in the morning and 70's by the time i leave work. today it was raining and 50 and didnt get any pops... yesturday it was clear sky and about 40 in the morning and got multiple backfires. even at 10am when i go out for break it pops a few times on the way to the store. only when light on the throttle.. if get on it a bit it clears right up. by afternoon its fine... ill try what you posted. i didnt mean to get ahead of you. i thought it was something that could be adjusted while i waited for you to get a min and look at my log. sorry ill be more patient. thanks mark

[hammertime371]

so by raising the bpw i get how that puts more fuel into motor. by doing that it should raise my duty cycle as well right? I was only using about 30% anyway. I have an adjustable regulator so what would make more sense, high pressure with low duty cycle 30% or use less pressure with a dc more around 60-70%?

[EagleMark]

With your VE hitting 100%, DC% showing 30+% and logs still lean I'm not sure the DC % gauge is correct, so just leave that out of the picture for now.

Guys here have raised BPW a little and it worked for more fuel. We had one that was raised a lot and never got it right. I then took a perfect tune car and raised BPW and went rich idle and lean under load, so big changes do not work. I had always set BPW per calculater and then tuned engine, if I hit 90% VE I add another 1 PSI and recalculate BPW. Retune and it has always worked.

BPW is a calculation of injector size, fuel pressure and engine displacement. Not a tuning tool. There are so many other things to take into account I've just never played with it.

So if you have time try the bin with slight raise in BPW and datalog and we will see. Then if you want to do it as per calculation raise pressure to 23 PSI and BPW to 107 and data log.

[hammertime371]

well i tried the new bin and no backfires!!! seems to have cleared up the off idle stumble and feels like it has more power... still getting better.:thumbsup:

[EagleMark]

I got your log via email. Next time just post it up here so I can keep track.

Well adding to BPW did add a lot of fuel low rpm and load but hardly anything where you needed it. So again another test shows messing with BPW is not a good tuning tool.

Raise your fuel pressure to 23 PSI and change BPW to 107, leave rest of bin alone and do another log. Does not have to be as long as last one. 1/3 of it would be fine.

Little to many knock counts for my liking so I pulled some timing and did the BPW for you so here's the bin to run with new fuel pressure.

[EagleMark]

Have to get the switches right so your not in ALDL mode for data!

[hammertime371]

ya i feel stupid...forgot the switch on autoprom...youd think by now id have it down! anyway ill give it a another try

[hammertime371]

I seem to have some kind of fuel problem. I grabbed another guage at work and it says I was currently running 17 psi. guage at home said 19psi. well anyway the range of adjustment is 14 to 19. i bought a 18 to 40 psi spring from ebay so im not sure whats wrong. I have an external pump that is rated to 45psi however im still using the stock intank pump to feed the external pump. perhaps the internal pump cant flow enough for the external to build enough pressure. at this point im ready to just get a high pressure internal pump and get rid of the external. i think someone said a 94-95 pump was a good choice. what you think? I could just remove the internal pump but if i drop the tank i think im better off with 1 from a multiport efi application. besides im tired of listening to the external pump. its very noisy. despite all this i did raise pressure 2 psi more than it was so ill drive it this way for now and see if theres an improvement. maybe thats all i needed.

[PJG1173]

I would ditch the intank pump or both. I run a pump from a 99 vortec truck in my tank. Just a warning though the the vortec pump isn't as quiet as the tbi pump.

[EagleMark]

I forget what year your truck is but I seem to remember it being a square body Chevy with TBI tank. If so a TPI pump (like same year Camaro) will replace the intank pump and your done. They look identical and bolt in. AC Delco or Carter. Anything else is a crap shoot? New sock and filter, re set fuel pressure, data log and repeat!

[hammertime371]

hey not change the subject but heres a pic of my engine. if you notice i adapted the plow pump to where the ac compresser would go. its nice so i just press the ac button on dash to turn on the clutch and go plowing!

[hammertime371]

my truck is the rounded nose btw

[EagleMark]

Simalar year MPFI, PFI or SFI intank pump will bolt in.

[hammertime371]

heres a napa part# DFP FE0110 seems a bit overkill but should work


a/f guage was around 12 -14 most of the way home today so i think that added 2 psi made a difference.

[EagleMark]

Half price on amazon...
http://www.amazon.com/Delphi-FE0110-Electric-Fuel-Motor/dp/B000CGHY0G/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336181162&sr=8-1-fkmr1

[hammertime371]

wow good lookin out!!! ill order it right up

[hammertime371]

ok installed new pump in tank...its rated for 50psi but i still cant get more than 19. must need a another regulator spring. the 1 bought already was suppose to be 18-40psi. not sure whats wrong

[EagleMark]

Or your gauge is off? Try lightly pinching the return line while watching the pressure, it should skyrocket.

[hammertime371]

ill try it tommorrow... if it does than that means i need a stiffer spring?

[EagleMark]

If you got it all the way tight then yes. Does it come down if backed out?

An 18 to 40 PSI spring that only goes to 19 makes me wonder? IIRC all you can get from a stock spring is 18 PSI... your gauge could be off a pound if close to accurate.

[hammertime371]

it goes down to 14 when backed off... no different from the external pump setup...so perhaps i got a lame spring... although the new pump is silent.. that is nice. i compared the guage with others at work and out of 5 there was a small tolerence between them so i feel confident the guage is right...they are small and dont have fine division lines between 10 and 20psi so ya have to estimate...a digital 1 would be nice!

[EagleMark]

Wow, 5 gauges that are all within a pound? That is a record! You guys must all have good quality gauges. What kind are they? I've seen so many cheap gauges so far off it's ridiculas... I just spent $100. setting up a TBI fitting on 60 inch stainless braided line with AN fittings and a shock proof liquid filled race gauge so I can run up under wiper and watch pressure while WOT. My test gauge is within one pound of it.

Your pressures with that pump are what I have seen with stock spring an adjustable regulater...

[hammertime371]

they are made by clippard. not cheap.. they are for precision pnumatics systems. probly not legal for fuel purposes but for the 2 seconds it takes to check fuel pressure who cares... i dont leave it on while i drive incase it leaks. i got a vertical nipple sticken out of the fuel line so theres a bubble of air when i put the guage on so fuel dont actually touch the guage. almost like an isolation kit

[hammertime371]

pressure goes to 50psi when pinching the return line. so it has to be the spring. ill look around for another spring unless you know a place i can buy the right 1

[hammertime371]

i went back and checked my history from ebay and this is the part# of the spring i bought 260929050941 ... check it out it was suppose to be adjustable from 12psi to 40psi

[EagleMark]

Sounds like this spring which I have used to 23 PSI?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-TBI-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-Spring-/260929050941?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc095593d&vxp=mtr

[hammertime371]

ya thats the same thing...same seller as well...maybe i have a leaking regulater diaphram

[EagleMark]

They very rarely fail and when they do you see gas, it would be leaking out of regulator, the can that holds the spring.

That spring is rated at those pressures for a stock regulator converted to adjustable. Read his other spring auction which says its 23 to 30 PSI for aftermarket regulators.

[hammertime371]

ya saw that one as well but i figured that was gonna be to much. i have a stock regulater that has been made adjustable. I think maybe i just take the spring out and stretch it some and retry it. i got everything i should need so i dont see why it dont work right.

[EagleMark]

With one pump doing the job correctly maybe it's time to do a data log? Have to reset your BPW to correct for that pressure.

[hammertime371]

ok well it was 121...thats for 20 psi right? the best im getting is 19 so more like 122 or 123? i did go back to bin correction 4 which was 121 and been driving on that. had a couple backfires this morrning but not as bad as it was befor. its just annoying that things arent working as they should. maybe put a quarter under the spring and check it again

[EagleMark]

19 PSI is 116 BPW at 95% VE is 280 HP

20 PSI is 113 BPW at 95% VE is 288 HP

23 PSI is 106 BPW at 95% VE is 308 HP

We were above 100% on VE tables and still lean... untill you get a new spring you may as well give it a shot and see if one proper pump can supply fuel needed.

121 was testing adding to BPW for more fuel which didn't help... it made low end rich and high end lean...

[hammertime371]

so i was checking out an extra tbi i have and I have come up with a way to bench test the spring. rather simple actually so ill take a pic and show ya after i make it tommorrow. this way i can find out whats going on

[hammertime371]

ok so i made some mods and im getting 21 psi to 25psi with this spring combo. made a special cup to hold both springs so on the bench im getting good pressures. ill install it tommorrow and test again

[hammertime371]

check this log. 22psi with 108 pw. used bin corection 6

[EagleMark]

Hey! Your not only in the ballpark your in the infield! :jfj:


How did it drive? Was cold start OK? Any issues?

Only issue with that datalog was it had some VE over 95 to start in that bin. But your so close all you need to do is one final data log with attached bin and you'll be done. Really you could call it quits time...

But you seem to be having fun with this and with the ease of fuel pressure adjustment you have... if I had my hands on it I would add 1-2 more PSI, adjust BPW, then do last datalog described below. This will get VE away from the high 95s.

Warm up and drive a little like you have been doing but this time stop and pull batterey cable for a minute to clear learn. Connect, start truck and when it goes closed loop start data log and do like you have. With that we can adjust/check VE and turn stuff back on.

Then you can look for little issues like if it's still popping at cold start etc...

How did your test pressure on bench with air compare to test pressure on truck with fuel?

That's a neat setup for testing. But the little cable and knob is SWEET! Did you build that? Does it just stay on there?

[hammertime371]

lol...you like my flow test huh... i tested with air. actually it shows 21 psi with air but with fuel it shows 22psi. not sure why but its close enough for me. the regulator diaphram has flutter with air so maybe thats why. ill send ya the aluminum block i made if you want 1. its very simple to make if you have drill press or milling machine. the adjuster for the pump spring is just brake line with a piece of speedo cable inside. i made the knob on the end and it does stay connected all the time. it was way to hard to take the tbi off every time to change fuel pressure. i can get up to 25psi with the duel spring. its a stock spring with the extra added in. the spring i bought from ebay is clearly stronger than the stock so im not sure why that didnt work. but mark you helped me out greatly please feel free to ask me for some thing you need made. I sit in the machine shop and find ways to fix things that other people mess up. So making this stuff is no problem. Im just not good at or have the time to figure out what you already know about tuning. this was my first injection project and ive been working on it since december. I have another in the works that should bring 400 or so hp to the table. ill do as you suggested and another log. it drove nicely but idle seems to be rough. almost lopey like a big cam would be. didnt get any pops today but it was warm this morning about 70.

[hammertime371]

I still see high knock counts so is that something to check out?

[EagleMark]

No where near as many as when you had the 10K switch on and added 10 degrees...

Knock is hard to detect on 7747 as it's an accumulater so theres always counts. Even a stock motor with 10 degrees removed from stock table gets counts WOT... I'll look at your log in morning, have to watch for incresing numbers in an area while data tracing the spark table.

Next hack is spark retard! Then you can see if it's .09 degrees which is nothing or 8.0 which is an issue!

Where's your distributor set?

[hammertime371]

the disributor is set at 0 degrees.

[EagleMark]

I do think some of that knock is real. I took 2-4 degrees out, maybe do to trucks weight over the car I used to build that table in.

But I thought you had Vortec haeds and cam? That was why we were needing so much fuel... spark table is getting closer to stock heads...

This bin, same as last but spark removed, ready for data!

[hammertime371]

lol the heads are vortec with the small valves. the cam is crane. the heads are probly only better than stock. about 10cc smaller chamber and they flow better with larger runners then stock. the wife dont want me messin with it today! ill send ya a log monday

[hammertime371]

can out this morning to add some pressure to find that its already at 30psi when cold...it started to come down as it warmd up. not sure why but im thinkin maybe a block off plate for the regulator and ill get and external regulator thats more reliable... if i rev the throttle quick it misses. much like when ya got the wrong accel pump cam on a holley

[hammertime371]

ordered regulator... should be in tommorrow

[hammertime371]

used another pressure guage and now it reads good again...wtf...anyway did log with 24-25 psi with bpw 106.. forgot to hook up wb so we can deal with that later

[hammertime371]

if i hold the throttle at 1600rpms it feels rough while in park. the wide band bounces from 16 - 18. must be lean around 1400 to 1800. at idle it stays around 14-15 on the wb

[hammertime371]

the knock counts are down a lot since the last log

[hammertime371]

theres still something wrong...anytime i hit the gas quick from idle it misses and backfires. slow rev is great. pump shot seems to be off. still get varying fuel pressures so thats not helping. I plan to add a regulator with a bypass built in. install it on the supply side of tbi and connect return line to regulator, then block off the regulator diaphram with a flat plate and gasket. then make a plug for the return side of tbi. this way im sure to get the right pressure all the time. idle is also acting weird, not smooth like it was. backfires thru the carb

[EagleMark]

Log is doing weird things as well? Without consistent fuel pressure it's hard to run consistent...

[hammertime371]

...so what you think about the regulator idea?

[EagleMark]

I've seen people do it, but I have never found a need?


theres still something wrong...anytime i hit the gas quick from idle it misses and backfires.
At that pressure this should not happen.


still get varying fuel pressures so thats not helping.
This is a major issue!


idle is also acting weird, not smooth like it was. backfires thru the carb
Again should not happen at this pressure, you are rich at idle...

What ever it takes to get a steady fuel pressure is what is needed. New spring and diaphram should be all that is needed with your adjustment. Not sure your dual spring is working properly? Good idea, bad results... you were closer before...

I'm going to install the fuel and spark tables into a new bin, I've seen some differnces from ASDU when I compare in there and don't know what bin you started with? What bin did you start with?

[gregs78cam]

Are you using a liquid filled pressure gauge?

[hammertime371]

Im using ANLW bin

I have a liquid filled guage and non filled as well. been juggling several.

I agree the duel spring may not be good. Its odd how it worked great for 1 day. thats when you said i was in the ball park. I did order 2 more springs to try that fit like stock. They should have been in today but no luck. The regulator was a bust as it only went to 12 psi. the stores listing says it goes to 50 but they were wrong. returned that and now just waiting for new springs. if they dont work right then ill order another regulator. Ill get it right one way or another.

[EagleMark]

Usually the liquid filled are more stable, but then a quality gauge would be stable?

[hammertime371]

so what would bpw be at 24psi. im guessing about 104.

[EagleMark]

103.4 bpw

[hammertime371]

ahh now i can do it myself! thanks!

[EagleMark]

But with all the issues you have had with varying fuel pressure I hope we did not overshoot what was needed once you get a steady pressure? One data log with steady pressure will tell, you can always go down right?

[hammertime371]

ya i should still endup with a range of adjustment no matter which spring used

[hammertime371]

good news... springs are in. im getting 17psi to 24psi on the bench test. i think thats just about right. single spring like original so hopefully that will cure the problem. the more i think about it i dont see how anyone can offer a spring with 12psi to 40psi range. the 1 on ebay cant possibly do what the auction says. even after market regulators use a low pressure spring to get 4psi to 20psi then you need to put the high pressure spring in to get 20 to 50psi. so i got 5 pressure guages of various styles that show within 1 pound of each other. not sure if they are actually correct but the repeat the same so ill use them. got 3 more that show 4psi more then the other 5. i was using these befor so the pressure may have been less than i thought all along. after work ill install the new spring and let ya know how it works!

[PJG1173]

I know this is off topic but as I read your above post I have to wonder why anyone would have that many pressure gauges laying around.

[hammertime371]

I know this is off topic but as I read your above post I have to wonder why anyone would have that many pressure gauges laying around.

lol...i work in a factory in a machine shop where i do repair work...fabrication,welding,etc...bla bla bla ...and maintence. so theres lots of spare stuff for all the production machines... i just get to "borrow" whatever i may need!

[hammertime371]

great news....springs works...steady pressure...no more misses or backfires...:rockon:
throttle response much better...idle is better but still not smooth

i found the diaphram was leaking as well... used an old 1 i had laying around...works great. ill pickup a new 1 in a couple days...

i doubt i need 24psi so lets go with 21psi and bpw 111. wont have time tonight so for sure tommorrow

[hammertime371]

btw the fuel pressure measures exactly the same as with air this time.

[hammertime371]

the spring is from mscdirect.com got a bag of 5 for 7$...dont think youll find them any cheaper

[EagleMark]

Amazing what steady pressure will do ay? :innocent2:

[PJG1173]

lol...i work in a factory in a machine shop where i do repair work...fabrication,welding,etc...bla bla bla ...and maintence. so theres lots of spare stuff for all the production machines... i just get to "borrow" whatever i may need!

LOL. I could use a couple extra myself

[hammertime371]

121 psi bpw 111...went back to bin 7 cause i think we pulled timing by mistake.

id swear it runs better when emulating and things set "off for good blms"

[EagleMark]

You still got the same steady fuel pressure today as when log was done?

You have knock counts everywhere, with that bin it is possible some are real, but I'm doubting all of it? That is why I pulled timing from other bin, but you still had knock counts everywhere? But you also had varible flucuating who knows what fuel pressure? Do you have headers? Rattles? Worn motor mount hitting metal? Exhaust hitting? Do you ever hear ping/knock?

What bin was this started with? Now that we have actual fuel pressure I'd rather put together a new bin to start to rule out all these differences I see...

700r4 trans?

[hammertime371]

fuel pressure is holding steady...no change from 21psi

no ac
no air pump
no egr
700r4

I would guess the exhaust is the problem. I patched it last month but i think now i need to replace the 2 tail pipes. 1 did break and is now hanging today. it was not like that when i did the log. motor mounts appear to be good. theres no obvious rattling going on. trucks in decent shape. i can try bin 8 if you want just to see. ive only heard pinging at just off idle occasionally. wot sounds fine and under load uphill sounds fine. no obvious piging.

[EagleMark]

Spent some time watching data and I think with this new VE table you should be good. At least data made sense this time!

I went back to a stock TBI spark table smoothed out for safety sake and see what Knock does? It will be less power but will give us an idea what all these knock counts are for... if they don't go away now it has got to be false knock?

I found some issues in that bin you were using that could cause the cold start popping. This is a ASDU with new VE, spark and all things set were you had them. So when you can do a datalog like usual, but do the batterey disconnect when warm and ready, then start, closed loop, LOG! :thumbsup:

[hammertime371]

runs like butt this way! no pinging that i can hear ... exhaust is loud without 1 of the tail pipes! did as you asked and reset ecm , waited for close loop and recorded

[EagleMark]

I'll look at log after church... timing was huge change from Vortec style head to TBI swirl port, but at least we will see what knock is doing now? I know VE table is very close from old log, but if it ran that bad from timing change it may not reflect correct. You could compare old bin spark table and copy paste to newest bin and datalog till I get back...

[hammertime371]

its real bad at wot. wb was pinned at 10 anytime i was heavy on gas. thats called pe mode right? hardly any power at that point. under light throttle it was drivable

[hammertime371]

is it possible my knock sensor could be bad? or if its sensitive to headers and exhaust leaks can it be relocated?

[EagleMark]

My post disappeared while I was taking a nap?

I think I said... It was pig rich pegged at 108 BLM after removing fuel, so if fuel pressure has not changed, and it was always lean anyway, then the spark from TBI swirl head, from Vortec type head was huge. It is 5 -10 degrees more and you were liking it!

It still had constant knock, always while accelerating, most decelerating and sometimes at steady decel, it never stops. Pretty apparent it's all false knock. It is pulling timing constantly but I did not look to see how much, I reinstalled the Vortec type timing table in same bin, may want to run it... if it were me I would disable knock and listen for ping and knock.

But I am not going to make that decision because I am not there and it could cause damage. That is a warning!!!!!!! DID YOU HERE ME?????? If you can't hear me you can't hear ping and knock so don't!

Now if you could hear ping and knock this should run like rapped ape. Then find and fix knock system or noise or?

[hammertime371]

well i do know what pinging sounds like. heard it many times with another engine i had. Im just wondering what is causing the false knock. could be anything?

[EagleMark]

Yes lots of possibilities including any noise from headers to a rattle, old motor or a faulty knock sensor, or good knock sensor over torqued is ruined forever, squeezed tight, squished to over sensitivity.

[hammertime371]

ill get a new 1 cause i know this 1 is original. i shut off knock sensor and i didnt hear a bit of pinging. runs good this way but still pegs wb at 10. only drove it for 15mins so lunch time ill know better

[EagleMark]

DAM! I forgot to set BPW it that bin!!!! I'm sorry, need to reset BPW and data log, that will change BLM readings but I doubt will change knock readings...

[hammertime371]

heres log. knock disabled. if knock is disabled why do i still see counts in the table? reset ecm and waited for closed loop

[EagleMark]

I didn't see knock disabled anywhere? Also set up a couple gauges for TPS% and Knock Counter. It is like they are same gauge? It is pulling spark whenever you accelerate.

Took another 10% or so out of bottom end VE fuel, top is looking good. So we have consistent fuel pressure, this is twice I took out 10% down there, never touched top. Lets hope it get's off 108 BLM which is pegged rich both times.

Bin V3 is less bottom end fuel with vortec head spark.

Bin V4 is same but TBI head type spark.

Do a quick data log with each and see how it runs and we can compare knock again. Then can turn off Knock by raising temp in scalers at:
"KNK - Min CTS to Enable *Read Me to Disable Knock* do log and we will see how it runs, if it still gets knock counts and if you can hear ping/knock.

So V3 quick log, V4 quick log, then disable knock quick log with V4. Don't spend a lot of time on this, 30 minutes tops for all three.

Fuel is actually consistent for tuning now, we are getting closer each time. Knock is still a mystery and these three logs will show if any is real?

[hammertime371]

v3 runs nice, idle smoother. v4 rough idle and lacks power. v4 knock was off in scalers, again rough idle and lacked power. didnt hear any pinging at any time.

the knock scaler was turned off on the lunch time log.

[EagleMark]

Well V3 has the right spark table for your heads so V3 it is. Still taking out fuel which is incredible considering before the fuel pump and regulater we could not add enough.

Think I figured out the Knock issue. TPS% hack is turned off in this bin, lets see what happens. Only change to V3 is fueling adjustment per your log and TPS% hack off.

Ready for data log and test drive.

[hammertime371]

o good!:thumbsup: the more fuel you take out the better mileage i get!

I have to say its never had enough power to break the tires loose in the rain before... caught me off guard today!

[EagleMark]

Wait till fuel is spot on and we turn PE back on! :jfj:

Chasing that fuel issue was a PIA, won't take long you'll be dialed in now.

[hammertime371]

ya man...knock counts way down! runs nice but still rich! must have been the hack messing with it

[EagleMark]

Yup! The TPS% hack took place of Old PA3? Which has something to do with the way the knock accumulator works. Didn't see any knock in your log now.

Man I can't believe we couldn't add enough fuel with all those issues and now removing!

Is your wideband O2 sensor setup to log yet? Or at least watch (NOT WHILE DRIVING!). I'm rethinking this 21 PSI. Can you do a proper data log WOT with wideband and see if we have enough fuel for it, if to much we would be better off at lower pressure! We are 3 psi higher then I have ever used, not sure if there are other consequences? Or as easy as it is for you to change fuel pressure maybe a WOT at 21 psi and 18 psi, if theres enough fuel at 18 then no reason to run 21...

[hammertime371]

wideband is ready. i can hook it up to autoprom and try that again. im always watching the wb while i drive! ya i can do 2 more logs with different pressures. ill do them in about 2hrs. i know wb pegs at 10 at wot with the setup right now at 21psi.

[hammertime371]

ok it looks good...autoprom is reading the wb. stay tuned!

[EagleMark]

wideband is ready. i can hook it up to autoprom and try that again. im always watching the wb while i drive! ya i can do 2 more logs with different pressures. ill do them in about 2hrs. i know wb pegs at 10 at wot with the setup right now at 21psi.10 AFR at WOT high RPM is way more then enough fuel!!!

Can't wait to hear where you are at 18 PSI...

[hammertime371]

i dont see much difference. still pegs at 10 even at 18 psi. i switched bpw to 119.5 as per the calculator for 18psi

[hammertime371]

was just reviewing them and i see the wb didnt do much in log...almost like it didnt record but while doing the log it was working

[EagleMark]

Unbeleivable what steady fuel supply will do?

16 PSI? Wot run and watch WB. Got to come off 10 before we waste anymore time.

[hammertime371]

lol o man.. well thats as low as the spring will allow. ill have to change it back to the 1 befor.

[EagleMark]

was just reviewing them and i see the wb didnt do much in log...almost like it didnt record but while doing the log it was workingI didn't see any readings either, nothing. Did you use the $42 adx I posted in other thread with the channels set up? Which hole did you put signal in? Hole next to USB cable has to be grounded to same ground as ECM where wideband should be gounded...

[EagleMark]

We are going to change your handle to fuel pressure disaster... :mad1:

Wideband from what your saying is working but pegging at 10 AFR at WOT? but does come around to 14.7 to 1 AFR once in awhile? Your lkog is way rich but BLM gets locked to 128 at PE even though PE is off not adding fuel...

[EagleMark]

lol o man.. well thats as low as the spring will allow. ill have to change it back to the 1 befor.I think we can stop there, especailly if we get off pegged low 10 to 1 AFR. If not we can take out fuel.

We added fuel forever till you got actual fuel pressure now we can't get enough out... :mad1:

[hammertime371]

wb reads 14-15 under normal driving. only pegs at 10 when heavy on throttle. wb data shows in tunerpro but not in log playback.. i just swapped springs and now at 16psi

[hammertime371]

i got gound in hole close to usb and white wire in the next hole to that

[hammertime371]

like this

[EagleMark]

If you have programmed the WB controller properly that should work! Do you get any voltage there?

[hammertime371]

ok getting warmer... wb goes 11 at wot then creeps down to 10.2-10.6. it fluctuates in that area. perhaps 15psi.... btw the idle has smoothed a lot with lower pressure. if we go any lower the stock pump would have been fine. have to thank napa for thier bs regulator diaphram. the old crusty stock 1 works better by far

[EagleMark]

wb reads 14-15 under normal driving. only pegs at 10 when heavy on throttle. wb data shows in tunerpro but not in log playback.. i just swapped springs and now at 16psiAfter I got it working I never did test a log? That sucks, now I have to figure that out...

[hammertime371]

you seem to be having fun with this as well!!!:laugh:

[EagleMark]

Actually I do! Wish I could do it full time in person. Problem doing it remotely is not being able to check mechanical things, you caught my attention by being knowledgable first, then could follow instructions so I could see the problem... we sure overshot fuel in amongst all this non consistent fuel pressure!

You could drop another 1 PSI but since it's getting close lets try taking fuel out of VE table where you are with this bin. We were at a high of 94 so we have room to breath and now a high of 86. Do a WOT and see if close? If close do one of those batt disconnect data logs.

Check BPW!

[hammertime371]

ok so wb shows 10.5-11 WOT (did reset on ecm) bpw is now 127

[EagleMark]

Well at least your getting a torque hump in it now! :jfj:

Removed fuel and did a few other things to test spark advance and get more accurate to table. Should be fine but listen for knock/ping and knock counts.

Also lowered BLM from 108 to 80, we keep bottoming out, take out fuel, bottom out, take out fuel... I should have done this three logs ago... :rolleye:

Data log and do a WOT to see where AFR is.

[hammertime371]

ok wb says 12.5 WOT . its acting weird. goes 12.5 but then goes to 13.5. seems like its leaning out but log shows rich. lost topend power as well. was breaking up slightly at WOT. checked pressure and its steady at 16psi. see what you think. didnt reset ecm this time

[EagleMark]

From logs I have no doubt fuel pressure is staying steady! This is a good change! :thumbsup:

I did that to WOT PE, shows that disabling PE does not work! PE is now on, but no timing added for PE yet, maybe never with this much spark we will see how it goes? PE is on at 75% TPS, so that gives you loads of room for good logs without being skewed with PE fuel. Took out more fuel. Need good log to do it again.

Data Tracing timing table is now accurate with spark advance across the board minus warm spark bias from spark table. No signs of ping/knock so I added 2 degrees across the board. Should not effect knock/ping as we are finally getting close with fuel.

See what WOT in PE does now on AFR gauge? Should go to about 12.5 to 1 and stay there now without change, then can adjust...

Breaking up at WOT could be from the PE changes I had in there you saw, could be you seemed to rev higher in that log then before or could be needing a cap rotor and plugs? We'll see?

I really think that 1 or 2 more data logs like you have been doing and VE fueling will be done. Then can push spark, enable highway lean cruise, work on steady idle if there is an issue. On next log do a couple minute log of idle and note any issues?

[hammertime371]

wb says 11.1 steady. wot seems smoother

[EagleMark]

Took out some more fuel all over and .50 from PE. Added 1 more degree spark because no sign of knock.

[hammertime371]

im out of time today..(and gas!).there will be a log ready for you in the morning

[EagleMark]

Should be seeing improvements each time now? Hows idle?

I'm sneaking up on this as I am not there, usually doing it real time in person is much faster. I don't want to overshoot you into lean and knock...

You should sniff your dipstick... :laugh: seriously as rich as it went after fixing fuel issue if you check your oil and it smells like gas? Change it!

[hammertime371]

lol...it was a quart low 2 days ago...howd you know!!...didnt sniff it though. was planning to change it this weekend cause next weekend i go camping. been tring to bang these logs out quicker cause ill be towing a camper for 2 1/2 hrs. i did try bin 10 and it revs nicely in the driveway. seeing more 119's while tring it for the 2 minutes. idle is rougher as soon as it goes close loop. perhaps new plugs is a good idea. dizzy was new about 1 year ago now. so a cap and rotor wouldnt hurt either. have a set of 8.8 wires im thinking of using. there not new but there just laying around. thinking maybe a super coil as well. i ordered a new stainless muffler and tail pipes so hopefully they will last longer this time

[EagleMark]

ill be towing a camper for 2 1/2 hrsOK, that's it, no more spark for you! :laugh:

When your ready to log again, start with a 2 minute idle. Actually start truck and rev to 1500 for one minute then let idle for 2 minutes on start of log. Also let me know what the wideband says there.

[hammertime371]

were you up with the chickens this morning? it was 7am here and your what 2hrs behind me!

WOT was better as it reved to 4400. little more than befor. wb says 11.1

at idle and 1500rpms wb swings from 14.3 to 16.2 constantly. rpms are not steady as i can watch the tack varies about 50rpm with pedal steady.

under normal driving the wb always swings 14.5 to 15.5

[EagleMark]

Dam insomnia, I was up way before chickens...

Less fuel, more spark. More spark idle and flat fuel idle...

[hammertime371]

has an off idle miss when reved. slow accel is smooth. wot is smoother as well... wb shows 11. still at wot

[EagleMark]

The entire BLM was in ballpark, it probably would have been fine once driven a bit and learn was done. But I adjusted VE, actually fianally had to add some back in a spot so this is very good fianlly! Towards end of log BLM learn had things in order. So from here I think it's good and with a little driving and no battery disconnect it will be fine.

Took out more fuel from WOT PE and added a little spark so it should come up from 11 to 1.

No signs of knock, I think the off idle miss may have been the big jump I did in spark, with the Vortec head, cam etc... we may have to look at some AE work if it continues.

Can do one more datalog to double check but I don't see any issue with your weekend trip as is. Have to do it tonight or early AM. I have an unplanned trip to Boise hospital and will probably be there 3 weeks or so. Unfortuneatly your on your own till I get back. Help hold down the fort here for me!

[hammertime371]

1 last log befor you go. wot was 11.2-11.5. didnt notice any misses of idle. so after you make any changes lets set the bin back for normal chip use.

i should enable the things that are "off for blms" and is pe mode where it normally would be?
should i disable the hacks as well?
it would be nice to put my dash back together for a while!!!


I thank you again for all your help. I wish you the best of luck at the hospital and come back in 1 piece cause im not done with you yet!:thumbsup:

[EagleMark]

They were all on in this bin except highway lean cruise. I wanted a final log.

I'll look later to get my last fix, before I leave in AM. :laugh:

I am worried about the timing if your pulling a trailer? Want some pulled out? Could pull trailer and data log with half tank to see if any knock, if knock fill up premium 93?

[hammertime371]

well that is an option...i could hook it up and drivearound with it and log some. I have an idea what im looking for now with knocks. i think its fine with timing the way it is. with 4 counts in the cells thats hardly nothin. ill log on the way with it and see what it does. you may to look at when ya get back.

i havnt heard 1 bit of ping in the last few days so i feel confident!

[EagleMark]

Had to add a little fuel and take away a little fuel. Don't think we could do better.

Also found a very few knock counts this log from last so pulled 2 degrees, you should have no issues towing, but could check!

Took fuel out near where goes PE and .50 AFR from PE and added 1 degree timing to PE so WOT should be closer to the goal of 12.5 to 12.8, can always work on that later, your ready to drive and tow.

Did not see any idle time in log, was there? Is idle OK? Steady? Issues?

Left highway lean cruise off for towing!

Lucky number 13...

[hammertime371]

i didnt do any idle time in the log. if you feels it was best to take out some timing then thats fine. you know better than me. idle is ok. i get a lot of resonation from the exhaust not being there all the way. ill take care of that sone as new pipes show up. mean time ill do a tune up with plugs wires cap rotor. do you have a recomendation on plug gap. im not sure what vortec shoould be. dont think i checked when i put them in to start with.

anyway other issues i got can wait till your back. thanks again and good luck

[EagleMark]

I think I found something about PE? When your logging, watch wideband (second to driving) from stop or slow roll, low RPM and floor it! :jfj: Ha! You thought I was no fun ay? But watch WB and see what it does up to 2000 RPM and over 2000 RPM. What happens? Then drive in like 1st gear and rev over 2000 RPM and floor it, what does WB do? Besides actual AFR is there a change that happens at 2000 RPM?

EDIT: Stock OE plugs gapped at spec, no fancy crap. Don't skimp on cap and rotor, good quality, brass terminals. May be around till tomorrow... I kept questioning going in before holiday?

[hammertime371]

ok then ill do another log. plugs im using say 103 on them...thinks that a autolite brand

[hammertime371]

ok it dies for about 1sec or so when you mash it below 2000 in any gear. wb pegs 18 for an instance than goes low 12's. 1st gear its less noticable because ya get past 2000 very quickly. wot is low 12's steady. idle is good when its hot. wb says 15-16 at idle consistantly. above 2000 theres a slight hicup then into power quickly. way worst below 2000. did alot of erratic driving this log! normal crusing is very smooth as well as moderate accelling.

napa didnt have r44lts in stock so ill gettem this afternoon

[EagleMark]

Is it like it needs more accelerator pump? AE...

[EagleMark]

Sounds like it needs more AE so I added some. also had PE TPS% pretty high for logs so it is lowered.

[hammertime371]

this is the best its been!...power as you press the pedal!...didnt die when mashing the pedal. more of a slight stumble. maybe a smidge more AE. idle is smooth in gear but when in park its a little rougher. not a big deal at this point. overall drivablity is very good. i see more knock counts but hear no pinging at all

[hammertime371]

cylinder 4 5 7 seem to have some burnt oil on them. the rest are good. maybe some worn rings on those cylinders...plugs not in order in pic

[EagleMark]

They don't look to bad? Picture is kinda small to read plugs, I usually use a magnifying glass in person to look for specs (melting piston) on fresher plugs. Older plugs can't really do that. But with all the problems we have had with fuel who knows what they really look like?

Will look at your log later, glad its doing well. Idle is even harder to do remotely so you may have to takeover there with your AutoProm and we can help with some tips and tweaks.

[hammertime371]

just got back from the camping weekend in the hurricane!!! the truck ran great. good power on the highway! im still messing with idle. i had slotted the tps sensor so i could get more adjustment out of it a long time ago. and now i put one on that is stock and reset the throotle blades and now the idle is down around 800. which is nicer than the 1000 its been. whatever ill just keep playing with it! I figured out how to add AE in tunerpro. alos figured out how to copy VE table and blm table into the spreedsheet. so i did some fine tuning just to try it. no pinging whatso ever when towing so maybe we can do some more with spark table