WTB-multiport intake for vortec head 5.7

[Jimmie]

looking for a multiport intake to swap onto my TBI vortec head 350, EGR is a plus!

[Fast355]

looking for a multiport intake to swap onto my TBI vortec head 350, EGR is a plus!

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?7497-Edelbrock-3501-3502-MPFI-system-for-TB-cars-and-trucks

[Jimmie]

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?7497-Edelbrock-3501-3502-MPFI-system-for-TB-cars-and-trucks

Do you have any experience with that setup? I'm curious how they perform and how tunable they are, and would it be better to run it off the stock pcm since it controls my trans. May be an option if the performance is good and reliable. I would have to get a bootleg inspection since we have visual under hood here just for egr and such, I have a dummy EGR bolted up on my performer RPM airgap now that gets me through inspection. I started reading the thread on using an L31 intake with TBI PCM since I have one already but didn't seem like that ended very good.

[dave w]

Tuning the TBI PCM with a Wide Band O2 Sensor (WBO2) is a very good plan. My WBO2 thread: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5381-Wide-Band-O2-(WBO2-Tuning)-Spreadsheet

Usually 8 port injectors is better than 2 throttle body injectors, wet flow intake vs dry flow intake.

Edelbrock has discontinued production on the Vortec MPFI system (part # 3506) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-3506

The factory L31 intake system is an option to consider, if factory L31 horsepower / torque is acceptable?

Using a WBO2, I was able to "Tune" a 1995 Tahoe with a transplanted bone stock L31 to 260 RWHP using the Tahoe TBI PCM modified for MPFI.

dave w

[dfarr67]

I had no issues with the kit- but injector drivers were were an problem for some.

[dave w]

I had no issues with the kit- but injector drivers were were an problem for some.

The injector drivers inside the 16197427 are SOLID ELECTRONICS! I would accept a more accurate statement: "some tuners have problems figuring out the INJECTOR PARAMETERS for the injectors being used."

dave w

[Fast355]

I had no issues with the kit- but injector drivers were were an problem for some.

I have never had an issue with the drivers themselves. I have only run across an issue where I had to bypass the current sense resistors to prevent the driver from going into hold mode used for the Peak and Hold TBI driving method.

[Fast355]

Tuning the TBI PCM with a Wide Band O2 Sensor (WBO2) is a very good plan. My WBO2 thread: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5381-Wide-Band-O2-(WBO2-Tuning)-Spreadsheet

Usually 8 port injectors is better than 2 throttle body injectors, wet flow intake vs dry flow intake.

Edelbrock has discontinued production on the Vortec MPFI system (part # 3506) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-3506

The factory L31 intake system is an option to consider, if factory L31 horsepower / torque is acceptable?

Using a WBO2, I was able to "Tune" a 1995 Tahoe with a transplanted bone stock L31 to 260 RWHP using the Tahoe TBI PCM modified for MPFI.

dave w

That is a strong running bone stock L31. I have gotten 230-250 RWHP and 300-320 RWTQ out of them with headers and full exhaust and a very aggressive premium fuel only tune, but nothing more than that. That is running them at about 12.6:1 air/fuel ratio and 30-32* of timing advance. That amount of power is what I typically see out of tuned bolt-on B-car LT1s with 1.6:1 rockers, headers, exhaust, and an aftermarket air intake.

[dfarr67]

The injector drivers inside the 16197427 are SOLID ELECTRONICS! I would accept a more accurate statement: "some tuners have problems figuring out the INJECTOR PARAMETERS for the injectors being used."

dave w

7747 ecu, this is what Howell told me at one time. With the EBL/7747 there is a schematic that shows injector wiring being tied together (from memory) which I did not do and have had no problems.

At the time with vortec heads on a standard block, poor tune, 255 hp to the wheels in a 4x4 auto. Cannot remember cam.

[dave w]

On the topic of injectors and injector drivers. It can be very challenging, when a tuner does not fully understand the differences between a peak-n-hold vs. saturated injectors. With a good electronics understanding, a tuner can effectively use peak-n-hold injector drivers to effectively operate saturated injectors.

It's very common for an EFI project to be low in cost, and provides better than stock performance. The 1227747 is low cost, the 16197427 is low cost. Sometimes the cost of the EBL system is more $$$ than the entire budget for the EFI project. Sometimes a low cost EFI project combined with a poor understanding of injector types, injector driver electronics, and the injector parameter programming in the chip will lead to the conclusion "injector drivers were were an problem for some"?

dave w

[dfarr67]

Those Edelbrock systems are quite old I think, techniques always change. If I were to do it again the 7747 wouldn't fly, either the 7427 or 0411 even for just the electronic trans control. The impression I got on the drivers is that they were overloaded and damaged. I was having problems with solder joints from the TBI injector harness to Edelbrock MPI harness- Howell refused to put an injector harness together for me.

[Fast355]

Those Edelbrock systems are quite old I think, techniques always change. If I were to do it again the 7747 wouldn't fly, either the 7427 or 0411 even for just the electronic trans control. The impression I got on the drivers is that they were overloaded and damaged. I was having problems with solder joints from the TBI injector harness to Edelbrock MPI harness- Howell refused to put an injector harness together for me.

Edelbrock just did not wrote a very good program in the chips they shipped. Especially for the 93+ trucks. I have fixed several of them. I also ran a GM TPI with the 7427. I also ran the TPI with an EBL without port fuel mod.

[dfarr67]

I bought that MPFI kit brand new at the time- expected it to be a little more solid- you say quality of tune and I remember the literature saying for vortec crate engine only.

[dave w]

Perhaps the following statements apply?

The more you know about EFI, the less you pay for EFI.
The more you know about EFI, your ride will get up and go better with EFI.

dave w

[Jimmie]

Tuning the TBI PCM with a Wide Band O2 Sensor (WBO2) is a very good plan. My WBO2 thread: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5381-Wide-Band-O2-(WBO2-Tuning)-Spreadsheet

Usually 8 port injectors is better than 2 throttle body injectors, wet flow intake vs dry flow intake.

Edelbrock has discontinued production on the Vortec MPFI system (part # 3506) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-3506

The factory L31 intake system is an option to consider, if factory L31 horsepower / torque is acceptable?

Using a WBO2, I was able to "Tune" a 1995 Tahoe with a transplanted bone stock L31 to 260 RWHP using the Tahoe TBI PCM modified for MPFI.

dave w

I haven't had much luck so for on finding an alternate mpi intake for vortec heads within budget plus the EGR issue, I do have a stock L31 intake that I could upgrade with the mpi injector spider and maybe an intake spacer plate, not sure how much they help? Would this work with my 6395 PCM?

[dfarr67]

Edelbrock just did not wrote a very good program in the chips they shipped. Especially for the 93+ trucks. I have fixed several of them. I also ran a GM TPI with the 7427. I also ran the TPI with an EBL without port fuel mod.

What exactly is the 'port fuel mod' ?

[Fast355]

I haven't had much luck so for on finding an alternate mpi intake for vortec heads within budget plus the EGR issue, I do have a stock L31 intake that I could upgrade with the mpi injector spider and maybe an intake spacer plate, not sure how much they help? Would this work with my 6395 PCM?

The L31 marine intake would work with modification and a gen3 style remote EGR valve.

In-Tech might still have one.

[Fast355]

What exactly is the 'port fuel mod' ?

An injector driver modification that RBob sells for the EBL to eliminate peak and hold

[dave w]

What exactly is the 'port fuel mod' ?

Please see attached MPFI Information.zip file. It's a "How To" for converting a 16197427 computer for "port fuel mod".

The EBL System works great for MPFI, but does not control an Electronic Transmission (4L60E / 4L80E).

For the DIY type, converting a 16197427 to MPFI is considerably less expensive than an EBL System, with the added ability to control a 4L60E / 4L80E.

dave w

[Fast355]

Please see attached MPFI Information.zip file. It's a "How To" for converting a 16197427 computer for "port fuel mod".

The EBL System works great for MPFI, but does not control an Electronic Transmission (4L60E / 4L80E).

For the DIY type, converting a 16197427 to MPFI is considerably less expensive than an EBL System, with the added ability to control a 4L60E / 4L80E.

dave w

I agree with that. However depending on what the plans are the EBL has other functions. 2 bar MAP sensor. VAFPR compensation. Nitrous control. Alpha-N fueling. Lean cruise and more. The datalogging and VE correction are also alot more straight forward. It also has a built-in flash bank that allows you to tune on the go.

[dave w]

I haven't had much luck so for on finding an alternate mpi intake for vortec heads within budget plus the EGR issue, I do have a stock L31 intake that I could upgrade with the mpi injector spider and maybe an intake spacer plate, not sure how much they help? Would this work with my 6395 PCM?

Yes, the MPFI conversion will work with 6395 PCM. I'm using the MPI Spider on my stock L31 powered 99 S10 pickup, they work fine. I don't have experience with the spacer plate for the stock L31 intake.

dave w

[dfarr67]

I agree with that. However depending on what the plans are the EBL has other functions. 2 bar MAP sensor. VAFPR compensation. Nitrous control. Alpha-N fueling. Lean cruise and more. The datalogging and VE correction are also alot more straight forward. It also has a built-in flash bank that allows you to tune on the go.

I still have the discontinued flash switcher.
Robert has been very good answering questions. And I think it is worth mentioning that PnP is attractive to some people.

[Jimmie]

The L31 marine intake would work with modification and a gen3 style remote EGR valve.

In-Tech might still have one.


Thought about that but my usual ebay, craigslist searches only find the 4.3 or the carbed versions for 5.7.

[Jimmie]

Yes, the MPFI conversion will work with 6395 PCM. I'm using the MPI Spider on my stock L31 powered 99 S10 pickup, they work fine. I don't have experience with the spacer plate for the stock L31 intake.

dave w

I may end up going this route or something close to it. I even considered using the MPI spider with a few modifications to fit in the nitrous bosses of my air gap intake. Would have to look closer at it to see if it would be feasible, or if I could even get the injectors to spray in the rite direction but it would be an interesting setup.

[TNoutdoorsman]

I may end up going this route or something close to it. I even considered using the MPI spider with a few modifications to fit in the nitrous bosses of my air gap intake. Would have to look closer at it to see if it would be feasible, or if I could even get the injectors to spray in the rite direction but it would be an interesting setup.


Did you ever find anything?

I am considering selling my Edelbrock 3505 Vortec MPFI intake and Holley 670 throttle body and running something that self learns.

[1project2many]

I am considering selling my Edelbrock 3505 Vortec MPFI intake and Holley 670 throttle body and running something that self learns.


The original self-learning power management system:
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/01/13/nyregion/13amish3/00amish3-facebookJumbo.jpg

[dave w]

The original self-learning power management system::laugh:

dave w

[Fast355]

Did you ever find anything?

I am considering selling my Edelbrock 3505 Vortec MPFI intake and Holley 670 throttle body and running something that self learns.

Why not OBD2/0411 swap that intake setup?

[TNoutdoorsman]

Why not OBD2/0411 swap that intake setup?

I discussed that with Dave w but I don't have time to learn to tune on top of everything else I have going on

[dave w]

The original self-learning power management system:
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/01/13/nyregion/13amish3/00amish3-facebookJumbo.jpg

Hoping to have a little fun with this picture ... "No matter how well the learning process goes" ... the end result will only be one horsepower.:rockon:

dave w

[Fast355]

Hoping to have a little fun with this picture ... "No matter how well the learning process goes" ... the end result will only be one horsepower.:rockon:

dave w

But is it a Shetland Pony or a Clydesdale? Big difference in the one pony, lol.:laugh:

[1project2many]

But is it a Shetland Pony or a Clydesdale? Big difference in the one pony, lol.

We're looking to reduce overall emissions...

[brian617]

We're looking to reduce overall emissions...

I imagine the emission output per horse power ratio is very high on that horse.

[1project2many]

I'd agree. Its probably measured in kg/mile.

Then again, it's a solid fuel engine so the typical efficiency expectations are out the window. :)