Issues with using TunerPro on a 94 Vette with 155k miles

[KenMathisHD]

Hey guys! I've got a 94 base model vette with an LT1 that I'm having some trouble hooking up to. Last week I got done putting her together after doing the intake, timing cover and oil pan gaskets, and fired her up to find that she was missing like crazy. I got out TunerPro and my OBD cable to hook up to her, though it took me a couple tries. I completely closed out of the .bin, .xdf, .adx and log file it had pulled up, messed with changing the ports and switching around cable configurations, restarted the computer and the program, and finally got her to hook up somehow. I got the log I needed and swapped out a couple things and got her running smoothly again, but I haven't been able to hook up a second time to see what she's saying now about fuel trim, O2 readings and spark advance/retard. When I plug in to her and hit connect (not emulate), the bar on the bottom lights up DA: Connected in blue for a second, but then the values on the data dash start jumping around randomly and it starts flashing DA: Error in red at the bottom of the screen. When not plugged in to the car, I can see the cable just fine by going into the preferences for tools and testing it there, but I can't get it to talk to the car. When not plugged in to the car but the cable plugged in to the laptop, if I hit connect, the values don't jump, it just flashes DA: Error at the bottom in red, so I know that plugging it in is at least doing something - I'm just not sure what it's doing or how to get my laptop to hook up to the computer.

Is there a certain time I'm supposed to hook up the cable to the OBD port? I.e. only at key off, key on, run, etc.? Or is there another thing I'm missing on things to do before I hook her up? Any help with this is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
~Ken

[Danspeed1]

Ken, I do not want to give you misinformation as I rarely have the opportunity to use tunerpro rt anymore, but I had a 1990 Corvette I was working on and ran into the same exact issue. I could never get it to emulate properly. In the event you do not receive any additional helpful information that may resolve your problem, I would recommend investing in a chip adapter to plug into your ecu. I did this and then tuned two chips. On in the car, made chances burned the new chip, replaced it, did another test run, and repeat until I got it dialed in. It took me about 15 swaps before I had the car dialed in but it worked like a charm.

Dan

[skandolis]

your 94 should have a flash computer if im not mistaken, a lot of people have trouble connecting to the lt1 computer because of all the extra modules on the car,for logging and diagnostics maybe try a program called $EEhack, written by one of the members here. i use it on my lt1 caprice no problems...(then again, tunerpro never gives me problems on it either)

[steveo]

the problem is the timing it takes to silence the CCM module, which is the bus master on that particular car. as soon as you have power to it, the CCM and ECM both start blabbing away with useless information on the bus. the program needs to find a section of silence on that serial line (which has transmit and recieve on the same wire) long enough to throw out the necessary command, and complete sending it before more bus chatter happens.

what ADX are you using?

with tunerpro, the ADX isn't exactly smart enough to get the timing right, as far as I know, 'disconnecting and reconnecting' a few times usually does the trick, sometimes it might take a few tries.

of course i have to recommend eehack too, it's logging/analysis/graphing are purpose built for lt1 tuning and diagnosis.

it has a corvette-specific connection mode that apparently works well.. i didn't write the routine myself, someone with a corvette wrote it for me... it's been fairly well tested now. definitely give it a shot

[Danspeed1]

I wish I had know this when tuning my last one, although to be honest I was able to get the chips in and out as quickly as it takes to load a tune on hptuners. I generally never RTT anyway, I find it more complicated so to make an adjustment, upload (or in this case burn), reinstall and start again never real bothered me. It would be cool to have a true understanding though of how to get the RTT feature of Tunerpro RT to work. I just bought a 1989 Pontiac McLaren Grand Prix with the turbo 3.1 and you know I am going to want to mess around with that!

Dan

[steveo]

I wish I had know this when tuning my last one, although to be honest I was able to get the chips in and out as quickly as it takes to load a tune on hptuners. I generally never RTT anyway, I find it more complicated so to make an adjustment, upload (or in this case burn), reinstall and start again never real bothered me. It would be cool to have a true understanding though of how to get the RTT feature of Tunerpro RT to work. I just bought a 1989 Pontiac McLaren Grand Prix with the turbo 3.1 and you know I am going to want to mess around with that!

your 1990 is a completely different beast than this guy is dealing with

[Danspeed1]

your 1990 is a completely different beast than this guy is dealing with

Interesting... not that it matters at this point... you know the history of that car, but I wonder what the issues were. I hope he is able to find a solution to his problem as I am sure I will be tuning an lt1 corvette sometime in the future.

Good luck Ken...

Dan

[KenMathisHD]

Didn't mean to ghost my own thread lol, was expecting a popup to appear in email when I got a response. Though I may have to check the email I've got on my accout...
I didn't know that the LT1 in timing for talking to the ECM, that's odd that they'd be set up like that. I'm using $EE-16188051-Y-body-V3.8.adx as my TunerPro adx file - how much different is $EE hack from TunerPro? I'm assuming it will work the the same OBD cable I've been using, but does it require something specific be installed to have $EE hack talk to the cable?

[steveo]

how much different is $EE hack from TunerPro?

http://fbodytech.com/eehack-2/eehack-features/

http://fbodytech.com/comparsion-of-ee-dataloggers/

tunerpro acquires data and tunes bins for pretty much any ecm. i wrote eehack so you could do a bit of real-time 'parameter testing' such as tweaking timing/fuel/idle on the fly. it is written just for the lt1 and has a ton of lt1 specific stuff. i put tons of crazy features into it -- it does pretty much everything that you can do with the lt1 datastream. you need to use tunerpro for editing your bin, though.

all dataloggers you'll run into for windows are just serial stuff and will work with your cable

[steveo]

...of course it's free so you could just try it and see how that works for you, instead of reading about it

[KenMathisHD]

Tried out $EEHack and it worked on the first try. Was able to view Int percentages, though not sure how these translate into real values - it gives positive and negative percentages, but what's the conversion to real world values? Ex. +2% or -5%?

[JimCT_9C1]

You can change display units between percentages and raw BLM / INT in $EEHack using the Settings panel accessed from the main control panel.
The conversion from raw to percentage is % = (RAW/128 - 1 ) * 100

Hope this helps -

Jim

[steveo]

i set the default like that because i think viewing int/blm data as raw is completely useless for actual tuning, you have to do division to turn it into a multiplier or percentage anyway

if you have a question about anything in eehack try hovering the mouse over it, it'll give you some details

in this case it would explain the default display, and indicate that you could go to the settings to change that.

[Injected CJ7]

the problem is the timing it takes to silence the CCM module, which is the bus master on that particular car. as soon as you have power to it, the CCM and ECM both start blabbing away with useless information on the bus. the program needs to find a section of silence on that serial line (which has transmit and recieve on the same wire) long enough to throw out the necessary command, and complete sending it before more bus chatter happens.

what ADX are you using?

with tunerpro, the ADX isn't exactly smart enough to get the timing right, as far as I know, 'disconnecting and reconnecting' a few times usually does the trick, sometimes it might take a few tries.

of course i have to recommend eehack too, it's logging/analysis/graphing are purpose built for lt1 tuning and diagnosis.

it has a corvette-specific connection mode that apparently works well.. i didn't write the routine myself, someone with a corvette wrote it for me... it's been fairly well tested now. definitely give it a shot

Hi Steveo,
I've been reading tons of threads on eehack, and I'm getting ready to try it out in my '95 Vette. I've used TunerProRT in the past to get my 78 Jeep CJ7 ('88 5.7L Tune Port) datalogged so I could get a tune put on it (long story). So I have a very limited knowledge with using this type of equipment. I have a cheap laptop with XP and just enough processing power for the minimum requirements. I have a Moates (ALDU1 and CABL2) cable as well. My quick question is whether I have the right files to load. I have:

eehack 4.7
EE_16212471.bin
EEX.XDF
$EE-16188051-V3.8.adx

My car is a 95 LTI, automatic, 3.07 rear, shorty headers, Magnaflow Cat Back 3" exhaust. The rest is stock. I'm waiting for a new battery for the laptop, so I won't need a 5 mile long extension cord to datalog LOL. Can you tell me if I have the right files to get started, and is there a preferred order to load in files and hook up the cable? Sorry for being such a Newb, but I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!
John

[steveo]

Hi Steveo,
I've been reading tons of threads on eehack, and I'm getting ready to try it out in my '95 Vette. I've used TunerProRT in the past to get my 78 Jeep CJ7 ('88 5.7L Tune Port) datalogged so I could get a tune put on it (long story). So I have a very limited knowledge with using this type of equipment. I have a cheap laptop with XP and just enough processing power for the minimum requirements. I have a Moates (ALDU1 and CABL2) cable as well. My quick question is whether I have the right files to load. I have:

eehack 4.7
EE_16212471.bin
EEX.XDF
$EE-16188051-V3.8.adx

My car is a 95 LTI, automatic, 3.07 rear, shorty headers, Magnaflow Cat Back 3" exhaust. The rest is stock. I'm waiting for a new battery for the laptop, so I won't need a 5 mile long extension cord to datalog LOL. Can you tell me if I have the right files to get started, and is there a preferred order to load in files and hook up the cable? Sorry for being such a Newb, but I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!
John

that's alright except for the ADX file, wont work with your 'vette. you don't need the ADX anyway, eehack will do all of your datalogging

your modifications are minimal, wouldn't expect much tuning required

read this thread

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?7116-1995-lt1-M6-tuning

[Injected CJ7]

that's alright except for the ADX file, wont work with your 'vette. you don't need the ADX anyway, eehack will do all of your datalogging

your modifications are minimal, wouldn't expect much tuning required

read this thread

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?7116-1995-lt1-M6-tuning

Hi Steveo,

I did read the thread shown above. I was able to try datalogging my 95 C4 yesterday, and I have a couple of questions. When I hooked it up to the running car, several SES lights immediately came on. I think it was ASR off, Service ASR, Service Engine Soon, and maybe another (can't recall). Also, as I drove off on my lap around the block, the gas gauge read 'reserve' (pretty sure I wasn't that low), and the coolant temperature was at 76F and never changed. I never figured out how to load the BIN or XDF files into eehack. Do these files have to be in the same folder as the program? The files were on the desktop, not in the folder, and I'm thinking that might be an issue. I've attached the data file, in case you have time to take a quick look at it. Of much greater concern is that my transmission began acting funny after I stopped for gas. It was slipping from a start as if it was low on fluid, and didn't want to upshift. I limped it home and checked fluid level (seemed OK) and then shut it off. So, could running the car with eehack, using probably the wrong (or no) support files affect the operation of the electronic 4L60E trans? Also, if I put the BIN and XDF files in the program folder with eehack, will it recognize them and work correctly? The engine seems to run well, except that the idle speed is about 1200 to 1300 when the car is in park or neutral. I've checked for vacuum leaks in all the 'small' hoses, but still need to double check the PCV, brake booster, and maybe the canister purge lines. From my readings, it seems that a vacuum leak is the most likely scenario, but I haven't found it (yet). If you can give me any feedback, it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
John

[lionelhutz]

EEhack doesn't use the bin or xdf file. That is a Tunerpro thing. Does it run right once you disconnect the laptop and cycle the key off and then re-start it? It should.

[steveo]

When I hooked it up to the running car, several SES lights immediately came on. I think it was ASR off, Service ASR, Service Engine Soon, and maybe another (can't recall).

because we have to silence the CCM (command and control module) to do any datalogging, it may disable or affect some instrumentation or functions that the CCM is responsible for, but i didn't think the fuel gauge and temperature were one of them. the CCM definitely doesn't contain any functions that affect how the engine or transmission run, even if it's unplugged the car should drive as normal.


Of much greater concern is that my transmission began acting funny after I stopped for gas. It was slipping from a start as if it was low on fluid, and didn't want to upshift. I limped it home and checked fluid level (seemed OK) and then shut it off. So, could running the car with eehack, using probably the wrong (or no) support files affect the operation of the electronic 4L60E trans?

there's nothing 'by default' that eehack does that could affect your transmission

it does have a line pressure control but you have to enable 'expert mode'. it does have an override gear selector too. these are in the control section. i'm sure you'd remember doing that.

[steveo]

i looked at your log, looks about normal for a stock 'vette, its trims are a bit lean but all corvette calibrations are for some reason. of course your car isn't really modified so i'm not sure what you'd expect to see there, shorty headers and a catback don't exactly throw off a calibration

[Injected CJ7]

i looked at your log, looks about normal for a stock 'vette, its trims are a bit lean but all corvette calibrations are for some reason. of course your car isn't really modified so i'm not sure what you'd expect to see there, shorty headers and a catback don't exactly throw off a calibration

Thanks Steveo,
It's comforting to know that the log looks normal, as the car runs pretty well, except for the dang high idle! With respect to the SES lights, if they aren't causing an actual problem (which you indicate they aren't) then I'm not concerned. I stepped though the codes on the car and got the following:
1.
H41
4.
H77
H22
9.
H64
H72

I cleared them all, but haven't started the car yet. I'm going to do another datalog with eehack this weekend. Just so I'm sure of the steps I should follow:

1. Start eehack (no support files necessary) with usb cable plugged in to computer, but ODBII plug not connected to car,
2. Select Port and Vehicle Type in Settings Window,
3. Start engine,
4. Plug ODBII in to car,
5. Begin driving and logging.

Does this sound correct?

In the log file I sent you (trial 1), I looked at the graph in the area of 290 to 350 seconds, when I came to a complete stop and put the car in park. At this point, my Idle Target RPM was about 550, my Idle Air Controller Position was around 20, but my Idle speed was around 1300. Does this data support the possibility of a vacuum leak? I'm not sure what other parameters I should look at to help track down what the problem is. If you have any suggestions or ideas, I would greatly appreciate hearing them.

One more quick question. In the ECM/Calibration Info window, the VIN and Cal ID# do not match my car. I assume this means the ECM has been replaced at some point, correct? I see there are Set VIN and Set CALID buttons. Should I put my data in here, or doesn't it matter?

Thank you for all the help so far. It is greatly appreciated! I'm sending you a few bucks for an adult beverage or two. Your program is Awesome!

Regards,
John

[steveo]

I cleared them all, but haven't started the car yet. I'm going to do another datalog with eehack this weekend. Just so I'm sure of the steps I should follow:

1. Start eehack (no support files necessary) with usb cable plugged in to computer, but ODBII plug not connected to car,
2. Select Port and Vehicle Type in Settings Window,
3. Start engine,
4. Plug ODBII in to car,
5. Begin driving and logging.


you're overthinking it. plug the cable into your car and laptop before starting eehack, turn the key on, and connect. you can log whether the engine is running or not. your old port and vehicle type settings will be remembered from last time. also eehack is always logging (just remember to save after..)


One more quick question. In the ECM/Calibration Info window, the VIN and Cal ID# do not match my car. I assume this means the ECM has been replaced at some point, correct? I see there are Set VIN and Set CALID buttons. Should I put my data in here, or doesn't it matter?

you can definitely set your vin if you want, but it doesn't matter. the calibration id is 16200891 in your last log, this does match a 1994 auto 'vette so no problem there


In the log file I sent you (trial 1), I looked at the graph in the area of 290 to 350 seconds, when I came to a complete stop and put the car in park. At this point, my Idle Target RPM was about 550, my Idle Air Controller Position was around 20, but my Idle speed was around 1300. Does this data support the possibility of a vacuum leak?

did not meet the conditions for idle. look at your TPS (throttle position) during that time, it's at 9%, and other parameters indicate an open throttle condition. either you didn't have your foot off the gas, or your throttle was partially stuck open for some reason (cable, sticky plates, floor mat?). the log doesn't indicate a TPS fault of any kind.

[Injected CJ7]

Thanks Steveo,
I understand the logging procedure now. The calibration shown in my log was automatically downloaded by eehack from my ECM, correct? My car is actually a 95. I assume the ECM must have come from a 94, but the cal is for a 3.07 axle A4 also, so the calibration must be close, I'm guessing. I assume that the only way to get the 'correct' calibration (16212471, from fbodytech), would be to flash the ECM. Is this necessary?

With respect to my high idle issue, I don't think my throttle plates or cable are sticking open, as I can confirm that the throttle arm is against the adjustment screw while the idle is high. Is it possible that the PO has turned the throttle stop in slightly so the blades cannot close enough? I had the throttle body out during my engine work, and I cleaned it out quite well, especially the throttle plates/bores, and IAC passages/pintle. I was reluctant to back off the stop screw based on my understanding of how it all works, but if my throttle is physically against the stop, and my TPS shows 9%, should I try backing it off slightly? Your thoughts?

Edit: As I look more at my initial log session, I'm starting to think that my TPS is bad. If you look between 232 and 236, the TPS drops off to zero, with a very erratic pattern before and after. Also, after 300 sec, my speed slows down to a stop (braking), but the TPS stays constant at around 9% or 10%. I know my foot was off the gas pedal at that point. For the most part, the TPS never gets down much below 9% after I start driving, even though I know I'm off the gas a lot...

Regards,
John

[steveo]

I understand the logging procedure now. The calibration shown in my log was automatically downloaded by eehack from my ECM, correct? My car is actually a 95. I assume the ECM must have come from a 94, but the cal is for a 3.07 axle A4 also, so the calibration must be close, I'm guessing. I assume that the only way to get the 'correct' calibration (16212471, from fbodytech), would be to flash the ECM. Is this necessary?

there are differences in transmission control on an f-body between those years, unsure on the y-body


With respect to my high idle issue, I don't think my throttle plates or cable are sticking open, as I can confirm that the throttle arm is against the adjustment screw while the idle is high. Is it possible that the PO has turned the throttle stop in slightly so the blades cannot close enough?

on a stock LT1, the throttle screw should be backed off until the plates bottom out in the bore, turned back in until just touching the throttle stop, then add maybe 1/2 turn. you don't want the plates open much, the idle air is supposed to come from the idle passages for more even distribution in the intake manifold. as long as they aren't sticking in the bore you can't have them closed far enough

it is possible your TPS is bad, it just doesn't quite look like it from the logs, but further testing is required. the ecm self-sets the TPS to zero (remembers the lowest voltage it sees as zero), so even if they did turn the screw out a bit, the TPS should reset itself

maybe reset the ecm (pull the pcm bat fuse for a bit so it loses its memory) after playing around with the screw just to force it to reinitialize