Hmm, this should be a fun addition...

[Six_Shooter]

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/png/fuck-yeah-aww-yeah.png

http://www.vellemanusa.com/images/products/0/pcsu1000.jpg

http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?id=522377

[EagleMark]

Yeah but not as much fun as this one...

[Six_Shooter]

Could be moreso, 2 channels, and PC based. AWWWWW YEEEEAAAAAHH!

[EagleMark]

So did you get it? I was looking at a PC based osiliscope when I bumped into this MAC at a pawn shop for $400. Since it's automotive it gives sample signals of what things are supposed to look like which is sweet for troubleshooting. But only one at a time... Since it was $3500. new it was sweet deal too. Has found some weird issues for me since.

[Six_Shooter]

Yeah I bought it today, I've been looking at getting one for a few years, and today, while picking up some capacitors to fix a Mitsubishi ECM, I decided to pull the trigger on this one.

I almost bought a Blue Point Oscilloscope a few years ago, that had a slight issue, a couple diodes came off the board and the battery was pooched, but decided to pass on it.

I'm hoping that I can use this O'scope to diagnose LHM and even on the road vehicle problems. This one is powered through the USB!

[EagleMark]

I'll say this one not only saved my butt a couple times when perplexed but also taught me some things about conversions and RF noise that I don't make those mistakes in wiring anymore!

[Six_Shooter]

It's been fun seeing some of the signals..

Mostly looking at DRP, EST, and injector.

Playing with a '7730, and some $8D, and $59. Injector pulse is definitely every 4th DRP, as information has always said, but what I have found interesting is when AE is added, I had always assumed that the AE was just PW added to the current injector pulse, but it appears that it is actually additional injector pulses between the main injector pulses.

[RobertISaar]

that's how A1 works as well. currently contemplating code that actually does just add/subtract into the sync PW and remove async almost entirely.

and obviously, every 4th DRP meaning a MPFI V8 application.

[POZE]

Scopes are a really great way to see whats going on. Agree with EagleMark. Checked most of my ECM wiring to be sure I had proper signals without any noise in the circuits. Being new at trying to calibrate caused me to be very careful with the install and verify component integrity. Last thing I wanted was a wiring or sensor problem to mess with me. I used a four channel Pico scope that has a trigger so you can stop the jitter in the patterns. You can freeze and save the pattern and also zoom in to suspect areas. If you zoom in on an injector you can see the pintle bump in the pattern. Current ramp fuel pumps to check there health. Guys are establishing large databases of correct patterns for different cars and there components. Oh no another database for GH forum.

[EagleMark]

Guys are establishing large databases of correct patterns for different cars and there components. Oh no another database for GH forum.Really! The MAC oscilloscope I have has samples of everything, I do mean every possible sensor,circut etc... just found one for Turbo Boost Solinoid, also found Crank and Cam in magnetic, Hall and Optical, 2 VSS, I had no idea these samples were that handy! Don't have to guess it tells you exactly what it looks like so you can see an issue.

I don't know if I can get to them with PC to store samples but worst case if you didn't have one I could take a picture...

I'd like to see an injector go static? Might try that on the bench...

Where it has saved my butt on conversions that could not be diagnosed with scan tool or DVM was coil, spark plug wires and distributor near harness! One was three inches away. Now I can look at a conversion and see that issue though...

[1project2many]

It's been fun seeing some of the signals..

Mostly looking at DRP, EST, and injector.

Good practice using scope. Use cursors to measure time between REF and EST pulse. Rising edge to rising edge. Then use rpm of engine when measurement was taken to calculate the amount of advance. See if it matches scantool reading and calbration. Also neat to watch dizzy EST pulse "dissappear" when 5V applied. Compare pulse at coil to pulse at REF and you'll see one go missing when 5V is applied. Technically, the REF generated when the first cyl in the firing order passes TDC gets used for the next cylinder in the firing order.



I'd like to see an injector go static? Might try that on the bench...


Looks like solid line. Static means injector is commanded on for more time than it can be on. Voltage signal never changes.
What's fun to watch is TBI peak and hold vs saturated PFI signals. Also fun to watch knock sensor line into knock filter and compare to signal out. It's amazing what doesn't get through. Another neat thing is look for faulty ignition using FM antenna and scope. Pass antenna over engine, wires, dizzy. Anything requiring more voltage makes higher lines on scope. Just like old days using AM radio and listening to engine "whine" through the static.

[EagleMark]

Man your old... I remember high school auto shop, OK I'm old too as electronic ignition was coming out then. But we got a Tune up center had vacuum gauge, dwell meter, volt meter, timing light, etc... and scope. Scope was cool to learn as you could find a bad plug wire or which cylinder was mis firing.

We got the scope at school becuase the auto shop teacher had made a deal with SnapOn and got one for his gas station and we got one at school, I also worked for him after school and weekends. He showed me the old way to check ignition system by running a power wire to AM radio and tuned channel and you could here steady static that went up and down with RPM or a click... click was a problem. But the scope was cooler and could isolate the cylinder.

[1project2many]

Man your old...
Hey! I resemble that remark.

My son, who is two and a half, announced last weekend "Daddy, you a dinosaur!" I knew he wanted me to be the "bad guy" from the Superman cartoon he watched the night before. My wife, however, almost lost her breakfast she was laughing so hard.

[EagleMark]

Hey Six Shooter! You deal with the MAC tool man right? Think you could get me software CD for MAC ET 3480 Scope? I got the USB cable and tryed hooking it to PC but no drivers found, searched for at least an hour and can't find any software for it. If I could get in I may be able to get sample signals out? This thing is loaded with everything including DIS...

[Six_Shooter]

If this was about a year ago, that likely would have been no problem, but since the MAC guy I used to deal with changed positions (became a regional rep) and took about 6 months to find a replacement, we haven't even seen the new MAC guy. The old MAC guy was awesome. :(

[EagleMark]

You should talk to the reginal rep about not seeing a MAC guy? Man we were never missed each month by MAC or Snapon even when we didn't buy anything they were always there. If you think of a way let me know. I'll hit a frind here at a local shop and see if MAC comes by.

[1project2many]

MAC hasn't been by our shop in years. Matco guy is in the neighborhood but accurate description of his attitude isn't fit for family viewing. Cornwell came by but I think I offended him as he stopped right after I paid last payment on a toolbox. Or I just didn't spend enough.

[EagleMark]

I sent MAC and email to see if they will send or sell me the software. But without a local saleman and no account I'm doubting they will want to bother...

[truckmannorth]

EagleMark I have a good Mac dealer and will check with him. Only see him every other week and just saw him Thursday so will be 2 weeks.
Dale

[EagleMark]

:happy:

[POZE]

Here is what I got from Snappy

Finally, the scope patterns for sensors are not available on a CD or
DVD. They are in our VANTAGE PRO, which is designed to test sensors.
Here is a link to more information:
http://www1.snapon.com/diagnostics/us/vantagepro (https://dwa2007.nwoca.org/owa/redir.aspx?C=f6baef5eb2f44ae2ae10fb15a5a38db7&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww1.snapon.com%2fdiagnostics%2fu s%2fvantagepro).

[EagleMark]

Link goes to sign in page that needs username and password?

It would be nice to get into my MAC scope just because you can and I'd like to see what the USB connection from scope to PC does and is for. But the flip side is if you can get in you may be able to get sample signals out? I'm guessing it is to download recordings or to do updates like my Scan Tool.

[POZE]

Don't know it this would be helpful?
http://www.picoauto.com/automotive-library.html

[Six_Shooter]

Don't know it this would be helpful?
http://www.picoauto.com/automotive-library.html

No, it's more than helpful.

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/0/2/4/3/6/8/5/thumbs-up-meme-52217325834.png

[EagleMark]

Thats a lot of help to someone with a scope and not sure if signal is correct. With mine I have samples of every circut of every car which I didn't realize would be so helpful.

The one I have has all these similar attachments.
http://www.picoauto.com/automotive-kit.html

Now if I can get software I can probably get screen shots for anything needed... like the library they started.

[POZE]

One more source.
http://www.wavehook.com/dbase/home.html?title=Home

[truckmannorth]

EagleMark,
I talked to my Mac dealer today, He made a couple of phone calls and there isno cd available for the ET 3480. All of the info for that scope is contained ina memory card in the scope. fyi the memory card is no longer available.
Dale

[EagleMark]

I really appreciate the effort. Thanks! :thumbsup:

Hmmm? It has a USB cable and I hooked it up to laptop but could not install because of no driver, so I thought it was a software issue. I wonder what the USB cable was for?

Anyway purpose was to get sample wave forms and seems there's some being documented and saved. Worse case is I would have to take a picture of Scope with sample, would have been better with screen shot off PC.