other SD tuning options

[34blazer]

as many of you know im using S_AUJP. im looking for other SD options that can log my WBO2. just went thru a few other 8D masks and adx but didnt see any with WB capabilities.



thanks

[EagleMark]

I haven't used S_AUJP but I have looked at the ADX for TunerPro and it has WB data logging values in it already.

My AutoProm has inputs for other sensors like WideBand I wire into it and just add a value for WB in TunerPro ADX file.

What are you trying to do?

[Six_Shooter]

Yeah, I'm a bit confused, S_AUJP has WB datalogging built in. Pin F14 IIRC.

[EagleMark]

Wonder what F14 was to begin with? Maybe he's using it or was it just an extra input on that ECM?

The 16197427 like $0D stuff uses the linear EGR control wire but that won't work if you still have the EGR hooked up...

[Six_Shooter]

The pin on the '7730/'7749 that is being used for the WBO2 datalogging in some docs indicates that is was for oil temp monitoring.

[34blazer]

sorry, i wasnt being too descriptive. some of you have seen my thread with all the problems ive been having on the TGO. im using S_AUJPV4 right now but would like to switch to something different. i like how its set up but i want to try another combo to see if some of those issues remain or go away. i had to copy most of the AXXD bin to get the IAC controls right, fixed the stalling issue. it seems its all sorts of different bins compiled into one. i just want something with a patch so i can log my WBO2 readings. AFAIK 8D is the only mask for SD. i was asking if there was something else out there so i can try it.

thanks

[Six_Shooter]

I didn't know you were having issues...

[EagleMark]

I don't think there's a better option then what you have?

Been reading along over there and you've got lots of guys with more $8D experience then I, so I've just been reading. You did mention it cooling off the O2 going open loop and I keep thinking back to earlier in that thread where Ronny had pointed out your O2 settings were overlapping and not supposed to. I wonder if you stop messing with all those O2 settings and swing points and went back to stock to start if that could be your issue?

Sometimes you just get to many things changed, one change did nothing but you leave it there and several changes later it comes back to haunt you... I've done it before and take my fueling and spark back to a stock bin and find issues gone?

[34blazer]

I don't think there's a better option then what you have?

Been reading along over there and you've got lots of guys with more $8D experience then I, so I've just been reading. You did mention it cooling off the O2 going open loop and I keep thinking back to earlier in that thread where Ronny had pointed out your O2 settings were overlapping and not supposed to. I wonder if you stop messing with all those O2 settings and swing points and went back to stock to start if that could be your issue?

Sometimes you just get to many things changed, one change did nothing but you leave it there and several changes later it comes back to haunt you... I've done it before and take my fueling and spark back to a stock bin and find issues gone?

stock would be fine but as far as the O2 sensor tables it was JP. none of my values intersect anywhere. the stock O2 tables go too lean under load so thats why i had to raise them. actually i had to change alot of things from stock just to get it to run right. i also wanted to try another combo just to make sure the IAT circuit is functioning since S_AUJP doesnt show anything. im going to try a simpler version of 8D today and only change the VE to match my current table. ill just watch my wideband without logging it. thanks

[gregs78cam]

i also wanted to try another combo just to make sure the IAT circuit is functioning since S_AUJP doesnt show anything.

I don't quite get this. Are you saying you have IAT sensor hooked up and enabled in the .bin, but no gauge in the TP dash to make sure it is actually reading? That shouldn't be hard to fix.

[34blazer]

I don't quite get this. Are you saying you have IAT sensor hooked up and enabled in the .bin, but no gauge in the TP dash to make sure it is actually reading? That shouldn't be hard to fix.

there is an output inthe adx for it but it doesnt readout anything other than 19*C. hasnt worked since day one. i tested the circuit and sensor and both checked out. so the only other thing could be bad circuit in the ecm or the software. ive also tried disabling the lookup table in the adx to see the raw value and that doesnt move either.

mark, i understand about going back to stock values and starting over. but S_V4 is so far modified that its probably more trouble to copy all the stock aujp values and return it to stock. thats why i want to start out with a stock xdf/adx/bin that has a patch for wideband. then test that to see if it will fall out of closed loop, if it does then theres something wrong with the wiring. if it doesnt then something is wrong with S_V4, like RBob stated on the TGO.

[EagleMark]

OK yeah JP was talking about the O2 points crossing... if that's not an issue then... well I don't know where to begin?

If it were me and I wasn't getting an IAT reading I would want to fix that first because it will effect all your fueling! Which could cause you to go open loop and seems that's the problem your chasing?

As far as a stock bin XDF and ADX with patch just to check WB, that is not as easy as it sounds. You have to modify each to make it work.

If you got a bad circut in the ECM then you need an ECM. Should be able to check everyone with the PDF available in sticky for error codes.

I'd never second guess RBob as he just knows to much about this stuff. But your not the only guy running S_AUJP so if everyone else is not having an issue maybe you do have a bad ECM or wiring issue.

Unless I missed something I would want to find out what is wrong with IAT first. And also is it IAT or MAT in AUJP? because the 2 temp readings are differant and will adjust fueling differant.

Bottom of the page, pick the PDF for your car and find IAT or MAT and how to diagnose it. Then if it's right we could look into why the ADX is not reading it.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?52-GM-ECM-Reading-Error-Codes-CEL-SES-Light

[EagleMark]

I just looked at S_AUJP.ads imported as ADX and compared it to stock $8D and both are MAT. Both have same address and S_AUJP MAT value seems to be correct with it's own temp lookup table.

MAT IAT and CTS all read the same so warm you car up and hook up the CTS to MAT wires and see if you get a reading, you should. If not then the ADX is wrong or your ECM is bad or your wiring is wrong. Ask JP if MAT is known working in S_AUJP?

Now if you moved your MAT to incoming air in air filter and made it an IAT then it is telling the ECM wrong info. But it should still send a temp to ADX if ECM or wiring is not bad.

[34blazer]

I just looked at S_AUJP.ads imported as ADX and compared it to stock $8D and both are MAT. Both have same address and S_AUJP MAT value seems to be correct with it's own temp lookup table.

MAT IAT and CTS all read the same so warm you car up and hook up the CTS to MAT wires and see if you get a reading, you should. If not then the ADX is wrong or your ECM is bad or your wiring is wrong. Ask JP if MAT is known working in S_AUJP?

Now if you moved your MAT to incoming air in air filter and made it an IAT then it is telling the ECM wrong info. But it should still send a temp to ADX if ECM or wiring is not bad.

yes, it is an IAT. i first i used the factory ford IAT. same captured element found in common GM IATs. also did a comparison before i terminated the wiring, both had almost identical readings. it wont throw a CEL because its within the qualifers, just doesnt move from 65*F/19*Cish. i think the raw hex displayed 55 or something. since its custom wired and tucked i dont have enough slack in the wires to hook it to my CTS.

im 100% the wiring isnt goofed, i double checked and made sure it was at the right pin, also checked to make sure there was 5V, check. also rewired and switched to the gm IAT that i bought with the harness. checked the resistance at various temps and all were well within spec

since the IAT discrepancy hasnt tripped the qualifiers it remains in closed loop. open loop even uses the IAT for fuel trim and other things.

thanks

BTW, all this is on my mustang. swapped the 7730 and the harness in there if you were wondering why i was using a ford sensor lol

[EagleMark]

Well if it's not reading in the ADX I wonder what it's reading to the ECM? It could be telling the ECM it is always 19c... it would still bug me till I had it fixed.

So that leaves you going open loop at highway speeds and your thinking the O2 is cooling off? Where is it? Heated? What kinda temps where you live?

Oh and since you have a cool conversion you don't have to hide it around here as we are not specific to anything but efi... so!

:ttwwop:

[JeepsAndGuns]

Trying to follow best I can, and I want to pay attention as I may one day be running a 7727 with 8D.

I may be reading this wrong, or understanding it wrong, based on your problems. But with your desire to go back to a stock 8D, and talking about the diffrences in it and the s_aujp, can you ony use a s_aujp specific bin with the s_aujp XDF?

[34blazer]

Well if it's not reading in the ADX I wonder what it's reading to the ECM? It could be telling the ECM it is always 19c... it would still bug me till I had it fixed.

So that leaves you going open loop at highway speeds and your thinking the O2 is cooling off? Where is it? Heated? What kinda temps where you live?

Oh and since you have a cool conversion you don't have to hide it around here as we are not specific to anything but efi... so!

:ttwwop:

LMAO something told me that you would want some pics so i went out and took a quick video and a few pics.

its bugging me for awhile now but this is my DD for another few months so i cant afford to have it down for longer than a saturday to diagnose more in depth.

im using the simulated NB output from my wideband controller. funny thing is, with the factory NB still connected it wouldnt fall out of closed loop. now with the sim NB it is but only at light loads and cruise rpm, 2600rpm. im thinking maybe i can narrow up the O2 ready qualifiers since the wideband is more accurate and faster. im thinking it may help.

as for the IAT, im lost unless i could find another adx/xdf to run the car with.

ill have the vid and some pics in a few min...

[34blazer]

Trying to follow best I can, and I want to pay attention as I may one day be running a 7727 with 8D.

I may be reading this wrong, or understanding it wrong, based on your problems. But with your desire to go back to a stock 8D, and talking about the diffrences in it and the s_aujp, can you ony use a s_aujp specific bin with the s_aujp XDF?

from what i understand S_V4 uses its own xdf and bin. ive tried an ordinary 8D adx and it seemed to work. download the 1026 pack and check it out, you can see alot of differences in the xdf. HTH

[34blazer]

first start with the 7730, IAC was in-op and wiring needed cleaned up. just testing before i started to loom and tuck

http://www.streetfire.net/video/7730-saujp-corsa-equipped-mustang_2266521.htm


today, installed cam after the first vid so it sounds a little different.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/mustang-e303-cam_2381203.htm

[gregs78cam]

im using the simulated NB output from my wideband controller. funny thing is, with the factory NB still connected it wouldnt fall out of closed loop. now with the sim NB it is but only at light loads and cruise rpm, 2600rpm. im thinking maybe i can narrow up the O2 ready qualifiers since the wideband is more accurate and faster. im thinking it may help.




What WBO2 controller are you using? It has been experienced many times....simulated NB outputs are never quite right. Go back to factory NB input and go from there.

[EagleMark]

from what i understand S_V4 uses its own xdf and bin. ive tried an ordinary 8D adx and it seemed to work. download the 1026 pack and check it out, you can see alot of differences in the xdf. HTHThere's a lot of ALDL outputs the same, but a lot have been changed, so yes some will still work properly but others won't and you won't see the added changes unless you use the associated ADX.


What WBO2 controller are you using? It has been experienced many times....simulated NB outputs are never quite right. Go back to factory NB input and go from there.Yup!

[34blazer]

What WBO2 controller are you using? It has been experienced many times....simulated NB outputs are never quite right. Go back to factory NB input and go from there.

ive been using the factory sensor up until last weekend. over in my other thread on TGO i described what was going on. at 3400ish rpm and light load it would lean out, in the 15-16 range. the readings from the datalog showed normal. thats why i tried the simulated NB, problem went away but now this. i noticed there was less fluctuation in the O2 readings but i dont trust S_V4 after the glitch in the VE table causing it to go lean.

the WBO2 is the SLC PP2, BTW

[Six_Shooter]

It could very well be the ADX.

There was a build of Tuner Pro V5, that had issues when importing ADS to ADX, that seemed to only affect the MAT/IAT reading for some reason.

Check the conversion, and other settings.

You can also try to import an ADS with a later (or newest) build of TP RT.

[34blazer]

It could very well be the ADX.

There was a build of Tuner Pro V5, that had issues when importing ADS to ADX, that seemed to only affect the MAT/IAT reading for some reason.

Check the conversion, and other settings.

You can also try to import an ADS with a later (or newest) build of TP RT.

yup, thats what i did, you actually suggested that last fall lol

[EagleMark]

Cool thanks for the pics, haven't watched the videos yet!

Couple questions, MAP sensor where is it and where is it hooked up? Can't tell by the picture...

The heat sink, is that the EST? Kinda looks like it but never seen one mounted like that. Since this is a conversion to your Ford ignition have you ever checked actual spark timing at timing marks compared to what is in the bin file? Then reading the latency settings and even a stock chevy can be 11 degrees off!

Now back to IAT, which is where your MAT is? You really need to get some data from here! Then you need to find a bin with IAT and get those figures in your MAT paremeter in the bin. IAT is outside air coming in. The $8D is MAT which is measuring air inside a warmed intake manifold, TBI MAT is even worse because it's in a heated intake manifold and has evaporating gas and air coming through. The adjustments it makes to fueling is all based on temps. Temp on incoming air like where you have it is differant then in a dry MPFI intake which would be the TPI $8D has right? Which is differant then a wet intake temp. There was quite a thread about changing MAT to IAT on thirdgen I read once... since you don't even know what it's reading do we really know what it's telling the ECM what to do correctly?

Just curious of cam specs @.050 as well? Your having such an issue with closed loop is this a big cam? Have you ever tried to just tune it open loop by the wide band?

[Six_Shooter]

IAT and MAT are interchangeable terms, besides that, the sensors themselves have the same resistance to temperature curves. They effect fueling the same way, though adjustments may be slightly different between different applications, they work the same way.

Send me your ADX and bin file, and I'll bench test it.

[34blazer]

the map sensor is located on the firewall on the passenger side of the engine, vacuum port facing down

the heat sink is for the ICM, the factory TFI was there before but i couldnt figure out how to use the hall effect and PIP with the gm ecm. so i got a Duraspark and removed the guts, made a bushing and put the magnetic pickup in the place of the hall effect switch. i had to mount the GM ICM with the heat sink facing out so the pins would fit up inside the dizzy. i reused the PIP spout connector for the EST bypass just to confuse some ford guys lol. i have pics of the conversion on my other computer but its still sitting in a box(just moved). im aware of the latency, ill get that figured out eventually. for now im just giving the engine what it wants.


the s_aujp already has the IAT modeled, uses 2 separate tables. so once i get it working its already covered.

as for the cam....

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6250-E303/

[34blazer]

IAT and MAT are interchangeable terms, besides that, the sensors themselves have the same resistance to temperature curves. They effect fueling the same way, though adjustments may be slightly different between different applications, they work the same way.

Send me your ADX and bin file, and I'll bench test it.

Rog...10 min

[34blazer]

tried PM but couldnt figure out how to attach. so here you go

thanks for your help everyone!

[Six_Shooter]

MAT is working fine on my test bench.

Have you tried testing for voltage changes at the ECM pin or at the MAT sensor?

[34blazer]

MAT is working fine on my test bench.

Have you tried testing for voltage changes at the ECM pin or at the MAT sensor?

yup iirc it was 80* that day and the engine bay was still hot. cant remember the exact reading from the IAT but it was alot higher than 66*F lol

[EagleMark]

Here's the ohm readings for the sensor. As Six said the IAT, MAT is also same as CTS so testing the sensor will be the same.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?74-Coolant-Temperature-Sensor-Diagnostic-Test-CTS&highlight=Coolant+Temperature+Sensor

My point of IAT and MAT being differant was the values in bin file, 2 differant temps to compare, not that the sensors were differant.

[34blazer]

Here's the ohm readings for the sensor. As Six said the IAT, MAT is also same as CTS so testing the sensor will be the same.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?74-Coolant-Temperature-Sensor-Diagnostic-Test-CTS&highlight=Coolant+Temperature+Sensor

My point of IAT and MAT being differant was the values in bin file, 2 differant temps to compare, not that the sensors were differant.

i looked those values up and tested the sensor off the car then installed it and tested it again. it was within spec.

[EagleMark]

i looked those values up and tested the sensor off the car then installed it and tested it again. it was within spec.Well if your sensor tests correct and your wiring is correct... Six tested your ADX... so unless the ALDL output address is wrong in your bin file it would have to be a faulty ECM. Unless someone can see something we missed?

[Six_Shooter]

I used his bin too.

[34blazer]

Well if your sensor tests correct and your wiring is correct... Six tested your ADX... so unless the ALDL output address is wrong in your bin file it would have to be a faulty ECM. Unless someone can see something we missed?


i just went and bought another 7730 from the yard and its still stuck at 19*C. so next question is the wiring. the wiring diagrams i have show tan is at F16 and the ground is tied in with other sensors at B5. seem right? i looked at the V6 cars diagrams and the TPI F body cars and both match

[EagleMark]

That's what it looks like on the diagrams I am looking at F16 is MAT. B5 and B6 are both sensor grounds.

So do you have all the ECM grounds? Just one diagram I looked at from our 1227730 thread shows A12, D1, D6 and D7 as grounds. Every harness I have ever got from a GM donor and rewired for conversion had 2 big bolt hole grounds. They usually end up on front of intake and back of intake. There may be a ground plain purpose for this, I don't know but I always use what's there. One should really be fine...

Also are you being carful to look at letters and numbers on ECM plugs, sometimes you have to remove the comb that holds the wires in to see them. Many a people have looked at diagrams and got wire on inverted side of plug.

[34blazer]

That's what it looks like on the diagrams I am looking at F16 is MAT. B5 and B6 are both sensor grounds.

So do you have all the ECM grounds? Just one diagram I looked at from out 1227730 thread shows A12, D1, D6 and D7 as grounds. Every harness I have ever got from a GM donor and rewired for conversion had 2 big bolt hole grounds. They usually end up on front of intake and back of intake. There may be a ground plain purpose for this, I don't know but I always use what's there. One should really be fine...

Also are you being carful to look at letters and numbers on ECM plugs, sometimes you have to remove the comb that holds the wires in to see them. Many a people have looked at diagrams and got wire on inverted side of plug.

well im going to go check again, i have a short memory lol. i remember checking and double checking and then checking again. will report back with results.

[34blazer]

welp im an idiot, you all can start laughing now. i mixed up the +5V leads, TPS was at F16 and vice versa. sorry fellas, talk about stupid lol. fixing now will report in a few.

[Six_Shooter]

..it happens..

[EagleMark]

You wouldn't be the first, or probably last... should run way better! So you weren't getting a correct TPS voltage either? Wow should run way better! :thumbsup:

[34blazer]

You wouldn't be the first, or probably last... should run way better! So you weren't getting a correct TPS voltage either? Wow should run way better! :thumbsup:

the TPS was fine, just on the wrong 5V source lol. but still, runs better now. hopefully it wont fall out of closed loop anymore either lol


....and now i have an ECM and 3rd connector for the blazer when i swap it to MPFI lol