1995 lt1 M6 tuning

[Trevor]

So I’m new to the tuning game. I bought a low miles 1995 TA with a rod out. Ive nearly finished my engine, a 358 with flat tops, .6 valve springs, cc306 camshaft. Ported stock heads, port matched intake, roller rockers. Doug’s headers. I purchased a wideband kit for it, and about to purchase TunerCat. I was hoping someone would have a similar setup bin file to get me close on tuning., or any hints or pointers. I appreciate any help

[steveo]

it'll run well enough to get you going without a 'starter bin', you can fine tune and learn from there

you should try my software at fbodytech.com it doesn't cost anything

- eehack for scanning/logging/analysis/parameter testing/reading and writing the bin file
- tunerpro with EEX for modifying your bin
- trimalyzer if you prefer a bit more automation to your fueling corrections (it's fairly new)

software configuration:

- download eehack
- download tunerpro
- download eex definition
- load eex definition into tunerpro
- set 'view by' (top left corner) to 'parameter category'
- read stock bin with eehack (use eehack's flash module)
- load stock bin into tunerpro and poke around in it

tune idle:

- warm up vehicle
- open eehack's parameter control
- enable 'spark' and 'override idle' (also maybe enable 'expert mode' and turn off 'limit 5 degrees', as you might want to try more advance)
- play with the sliders to find out how much additional timing and idle speed your car 'likes' (it's also to taste)
- in tunerpro, open the spark timing > closed tps spark advance and idle air control > idle speed target rpm, and set the speed and add timing advance to suit

further tips for idle tuning in http://fbodytech.com/tutorials/idle-stabilization/

tune cruise fueling:

- open eehack's datalog thing, start your car, connect eehack, and make sure it's logging, and going into closed loop
- go for a lot of drives in varied conditions, and save the resulting logs
- load all the logs at the same time
- open 'analysis' and 'run analysis'
- scale your air fuel metering -> maf calibration gently based on that data, then do a new set of logs and repeat

full throttle fueling:

- install blm locker patch using tunerpro and EEX
- wire your wideband's analog output into your ECM at either D12 or D27 (D27 works great) and attempt to calibrate your wideband input in eehack's settings (it's not perfect but you can get it close)
- do more datalogs
- run analysis and look at power enrichment AFR tab

once you do this stuff a bit you'll get a feel for it, and be doing more advanced tuning before you know it

[Trevor]

I really appreciate it! So I should just get the cable and avoid TunerCat? I traded my truck for this car and somehow sank a few thousand quick. My wife is not happy so the less I spend finishing the better

[spfautsch]

eehack is fairly full featured compared to tunercats. Having started where you're at (including the missus watching the cash flow like a hawk) 4 years ago I would have saved my $20. I could count on one hand the number of times I used TC before I found eehack.

If you're handy with a soldering iron you can make your own cable - all you need is a usb to ttl serial converter cable / board, a couple resistors (1k ohm if memory serves), and if you want to get "fancy" a OBD-2 style aldl connector. I may have a surplus of the aldl connectors and surely have a stockpile of resistors I'd gladly donate to your cause assuming you're within reach of the us postal service.

[lionelhutz]

EEhack and Tunercat are 2 completely different programs that do different things. Tunercat lets you adjust parameters and EEhack lets you scan and log the operation. I think you meant Tunercat vs Tunerpro, which both work similar. You need one of them to do any actual tuning.

The cable can be made with a FT232RL based USB to serial adapter. I bought a few JY-MCU adapters that I've been using. I also added a resistor and diode. I'm trying to recall this quickly, but I'm pretty sure it's a 1K resistor from the TX to the ALDL port data line and a signal diode like a 1N914 from RX to the ALDL port data line with the band towards the RX pin. It's worked well for me, but others have reported issues. Others have also reported counterfeit IC's that could be causing issues.

[Trevor]

I don’t mind spending $55-80 for a cable. As I understand it tunerpro is free with voluntary donation, and I would need winflash to actually flash the pcm. I had not heard of eehack prior to this forum, so I don’t know much about it. Would any wideband kit work for these tuners as far as logging? I was looking at the aem kit with bosch 4.9 sensor, it has a 5v serial output on it. I was raised around double pumpers and big blocks so this is new to me.

[Trevor]

Steveo I have heard nothing but good stuff about your program during many hours of tuning research. I really appreciate all the members pointing me in the right direction, we all must start somewhere

[lionelhutz]

EEhack will flash, so you can use it to do all the PCM connected work. You need Tunercat or Tunerpro to make tuning adjustments. You could use Tunercat to flash too, but it won't scan or log.

[spfautsch]

I did confuse Tunercat with Winflash earlier. It's been that long since I used either. I would not recommend Tunercat for editing your bin as it's definition file is somewhat outdated and missing a lot of parameters that are available with one of the many EEX files floating around here. Winflash is also unnecessary.

As far as a cable what I used was this (https://www.adafruit.com/product/284). Unfortunately it's currently out of stock everywhere, but it already has the necessary buffer circuitry. All one has to do is solder RX+TX together and wire that to pin 9 of the aldl, and then connect ground to aldl pin 5.

[Trevor]

Will trimalyzer work with maf system now or is it still speed density?

[Trevor]

I did confuse Tunercat with Winflash earlier. It's been that long since I used either. I would not recommend Tunercat for editing your bin as it's definition file is somewhat outdated and missing a lot of parameters that are available with one of the many EEX files floating around here. Winflash is also unnecessary.

As far as a cable what I used was this (https://www.adafruit.com/product/284). Unfortunately it's currently out of stock everywhere, but it already has the necessary buffer circuitry. All one has to do is solder RX+TX together and wire that to pin 9 of the aldl, and then connect ground to aldl pin 5.


Excuse me for my lack of knowledge but a tunerCat/tunerpro aldl cable still requires soldering? I was under the impression they were out of the box hookups

[spfautsch]

Probably not, but paying $55-80 for something you can make for $30 is against my "religion". Also, I had all the parts I needed to make a cable in my parts drawer, which was a factor. So if you're intimidated by soldering buy a ready-made cable. Or, learn a new skill - it's easier than tying your shoes.

Trimalyzer does work for MAF tuning. I haven't messed with it since last fall so all the details are a little fuzzy, but unless you've changed sensors or modified any intake plumbing you shouldn't need to make very drastic changes to the MAF calibration.

[lionelhutz]

Excuse me for my lack of knowledge but a tunerCat/tunerpro aldl cable still requires soldering? I was under the impression they were out of the box hookups


Yes, if you buy a complete cable it will work without modifications. If it doesn't, you'd return it for a different one.

I'm not sure where you're looking but http://www.reddevilriver.com has a cable for a decent price.

[Trevor]

I don’t mind soldering, I build rgb guage clusters and headlights. I just stay so busy at work it’s hard to find extra time. Time is more valuable than money to me. Intake is only slightly modified, cold air intake 52mmtb and air foil so I probably won’t have to worry. I researched and found a/c pressure is the best to tie in wideband

[kur4o]

What you need is the adapter from the link.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FT232RL-3-3V-5-5V-FTDI-USB-to-TTL-Serial-Adapter-Module-for-Arduino-Mini-Port/141976901783?hash=item210e7b9897:g:jk8AAOSwrklVMjI p

You can buy several and have spares. It is the best design from all usb to ttl and proved the most durable.
Tie rx and tx lines and connect ground.

[Trevor]

What you need is the adapter from the link.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FT232RL-3-3V-5-5V-FTDI-USB-to-TTL-Serial-Adapter-Module-for-Arduino-Mini-Port/141976901783?hash=item210e7b9897:g:jk8AAOSwrklVMjI p

You can buy several and have spares. It is the best design from all usb to ttl and proved the most durable.
Tie rx and tx lines and connect ground.


All you have to do is tie ground and connect rx&tx? Heck why doesn’t everyone do that instead of $50-80 cables

[kur4o]

It all started in this thread. After testing different layouts and chip configuration, this one proved best.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?719-Uber-easy-DIY-USB-ALDL-Cable&highlight=converter

Actually this board is intended for arduino applications. The price went down slowly over the years and the design improved.

[lionelhutz]

The JY-MCU module with the resistor and diode that I mentioned was found inside a Red Devil River cable.

But yes, you can find the module and a 10' USB extension cable for $5 and wire the module under the dash running the cable out for your PC.

[Trevor]

The red devil river cable was the one I had planned on using prior to this thread. They seemed to have good reviews

[spfautsch]

All you have to do is tie ground and connect rx&tx? Heck why doesn’t everyone do that instead of $50-80 cables

That was my entire point on the suggesting the DIY cable. Mine is more or less permanently affixed to the car because I have five or six of those FTDI USB boards.

[Trevor]

Well I downloaded tunerpro and eehack. Ordered the parts to build a cable, and found some bin files stock and otherwise to check out. Engines not back in my car yet so not much I can do until go time. On badz28 I found a tune for a setup like mine but it was an autocar, figured I could look through and check out what was done vs stock

[spfautsch]

I feel your pain - mine is sitting on the engine stand tormenting me while my heads are three states away. "Go time" cannot come soon enough.

Steveo has a robo-tune function on his fbodytech.com site that can generate some useful compare bins as well. Just don't get too hung up on getting a "base tune". I think you'll find that your best base tune will be had using the tools in eehack to get your idle spark advance and individual cylinder trims as good as they can be working from your stock bin. Also, my advice as a fellow green-horn tuner is to not take anything you read anywhere as gospel.

The beauty of a manual car is that you don't have to spend a bunch of time trying to tell the PCM what you want it to do with the transmission. Slushboxes are great for drag racing and getting groceries. Drivers like to drive.

[Trevor]

Are you referring to trimalyzer? I downloaded it but my laptops antivirus shut it down. Something about malware or a virus. I’m sure steveo would not have anything like that but unless I disable my firewall I can’t open it

[spfautsch]

That's probably happening b/c trimalyzer is checking for updates. You should be able to create a rule to allow it through your firewall, but I don't do windows support in my free time. The word "antivirus" makes me both cringe and roll my eyes.

Steveo's robo-tune stuff is on his website, here: http://fbodytech.com/bin-files-2/free-online-tuning-service/

[steveo]

some comments in no particular order...


That's probably happening b/c trimalyzer is checking for updates.

trimalyzer doesn't link to network libraries of any kind, and doesn't check for updates. i planned to add an update check but it's still 'in beta' and i'm lazy


Are you referring to trimalyzer? I downloaded it but my laptops antivirus shut it down. Something about malware or a virus. I’m sure steveo would not have anything like that but unless I disable my firewall I can’t open it

your antivirus sucks. anyway it's open source and my code is very simple, someone could audit the source code and make sure there's nothing malicious in it.. yet another benefit of making free software open source.


Will trimalyzer work with maf system now or is it still speed density?

it does maf analysis but is not well tested and you do have to input the changes into the maf table manually. perhaps you could help, by trying it out and letting me know how it works? i've never tested it. i wrote trimalyzer during a time when all my vehicles had carbeurators -- i've never actually used the thing except for one brief tuning session on a friend's car.


On badz28 I found a tune for a setup like mine but it was an autocar, figured I could look through and check out what was done vs stock

i've looked at all of those bins and they are mostly complete and total garbage, i don't know who wrote them, but they are either barely tuned or poorly tuned. i'd disregard them entirely and start from scratch.


Steveo has a robo-tune function on his fbodytech.com site that can generate some useful compare bins as well. Just don't get too hung up on getting a "base tune".

that thing is for people that can't even manage to install tunerpro or open an xdf and bin file; this guy probably wont find it much use


Well I downloaded tunerpro and eehack. Ordered the parts to build a cable, and found some bin files stock and otherwise to check out.

every stock bin file known to exist in the wild is on my site: http://fbodytech.com/bin-files-2/bin-files/


All you have to do is tie ground and connect rx&tx? Heck why doesn’t everyone do that instead of $50-80 cables

because by the time you built a proper connector with spades so you aren't just jamming bare wires into your ALDL port, and a nice little case so you don't just have a circuit board dangling near your gas pedal leg, you've wasted more than 50 bucks worth of time and parts.

other than that, yeah, the little board works great, that's all i've used for years on all sorts of vehicles, LT1s and otherwise, i wrote eehack with it and tested the flash routine extensively with it. it's a good bet.


EEhack and Tunercat are 2 completely different programs that do different things. Tunercat lets you adjust parameters and EEhack lets you scan and log the operation. I think you meant Tunercat vs Tunerpro, which both work similar. You need one of them to do any actual tuning.

to be clear on the tools available and what/why/how much:

eehack - log, flash, free, open source
tunercat - tune, flash, 30 day demo then pay
winflash - flash, 30 day demo then pay
datamaster - log, obselete, pay
scan9495 - log, free
tunerpro - tune, free
tunerpro RT - tune, flash, $$$ (but works if you don't pay. but you should pay)
trimalyzer -


I did confuse Tunercat with Winflash earlier. It's been that long since I used either. I would not recommend Tunercat for editing your bin as it's definition file is somewhat outdated and missing a lot of parameters that are available with one of the many EEX files floating around here. Winflash is also unnecessary.

i have to play the devil's advocate for tunercat, here. tunercat has added quite a few parameters in the last few years such as o2 timing that robertisaar found. it has EVERY parameter necessary to make a successful tune. there is a lot of stuff in eex and the other variants that a new tuner need not concern himself with. tunercat is the bare essentials.

also mine has a hacky, free, crazy flashing routine, and it's totally possible that my software bricks ECMs more often than tunercat/winflash. perhaps you get what you pay for.

i know of 5 people that have bricked an ECM with eehack in a way that i find possible that it could have been caused by a bug in eehack. all other people that wrote to me complaining of bad flashes made statements like 'oh yeah my car battery was flat dead' or 'my laptop freezes out of nowhere', or 'i found teeth marks in my aldl cable'. i find this failure rate very reasonable considering eehack has been downloaded over 7,000 times since the flash routine was added.

tunercat probably has a similar failure rate, but guess what, if you brick an ecm the tunercat author will fix it if you send it to him, for a minimal charge. if you brick your ecm with eehack, all i can say is 'too bad so sad, get a soldering gun or go to the wreckers for another one'

i don't personally like tunercat just for the fact that finding parameters is just in a horribly cluttered menu instead of a properly sorted categorized list like EEX has, that is the number one reason i made EEX in the first place, but it's still viable software and well worth what he charges.

.. your choice


Would any wideband kit work for these tuners as far as logging? I was looking at the aem kit with bosch 4.9 sensor, it has a 5v serial output on it.

i used a FAST dual channel wideband while writing eehack, but also played with an AEM before i wrote it. i liked the AEM. no wideband is perfect with this thing, but with a few tweaks of eehack's 'trim' setting you can get it accurate within the operating range of 11:1 to 15:1 kind of thing, which is all you really need. the analog input linearity of this ecm is actually pretty awful. a wideband that lets you configure the analog output range is ideal, since you could output a fairly narrow range and gain more linearity (that's why the AEM was nice)

[steveo]

i've linked to this thread on fbodytech since it's actually a great primer for new tuners: http://fbodytech.com/tuning-an-lt1-in-2018/

[Trevor]

As has been the case through out this you have saved the day Steveo. I’m glad you have a donation button on your page as you certainly deserve it. I dislike the norton antivirus and I’m sure there is nothing bad in any of your files, but it was late at night and I didn’t have time to try much. I’m not new to the idea of tuning, just new to efi tuning. I could mail order but I wouldn’t be satisfied and I’m addicted to learning new skills. It’s not awfully different then jetting and distributor timing and setting advance. Eehack is very user friendly, and I doubt I will have any issues. But I have a spare impala ss Ecm and z28 if things do go bad. I’m also willing to try the maf but I may need a little guidance when it comes that time.

[steveo]

It’s not awfully different then jetting and distributor timing and setting advance.

it's easier

you have more adjustment and you don't have to take a carb or distributor apart to make actual changes.

you can use eehack to tune idle by feel just like clocking a distributor and tweaking a pilot jet


I’m also willing to try the maf but I may need a little guidance when it comes that time.

i doubt it'll need much actual tuning on the maf end of things. typically a cam swapped LT1 just needs some low airflow adjustment since the pulsation from the cam at low rpm throws off calibration.

don't be afraid to let closed loop take care of some portion of the fuel adjustments needed, a few percent of fuel variance isn't noticeable at all.

just so you know what a typical lt1 tune looks like with that size of cam and a maf,

you will probably end up adding some o2 delay time just because it seems like it makes sense,

subtracting 'bout ~10% of fuel below ~4khz, bout ~5% to 8khz,

drop anywhere from 5-10% of power enrichment fuel,

jack up idle timing advance upwards of 35 degrees, increase idle speed speed slightly, maybe reduce the idle speed timing corrections to get less flutter,

add a bit of wide open throttle timing but push the curve back a bit so it comes in slightly later,

maybe a bit more timing advance in cruise range, or maybe a bit less depending on whether it wants to surge or not,

might run into some false knock and have to kill knock detection in a region or two...

something along those lines.

then it'll run just great, and you can O.C.D the hell out of timing and fuel trying to get maximum smoothness, fuel economy, performance, etc.

[johnny_b]

One thing I would look at changing that doesnt get mentioned much is the BLM MAP & RPM boundaries. From the factory they are set kind of weird. It really seems to help with part -throttle drive-ability as well as BLM numbers.

Also since you have a m6 look at desensitizing or deactivating all together the "stall saver". steveo has covered this subject in-depth on his fbodytech website.

I made these two small changes on an otherwise stock Z28 LT1 M6 and I could definitely tell a difference

[spfautsch]

i used a FAST dual channel wideband while writing eehack, but also played with an AEM before i wrote it. i liked the AEM. <edited for brevity> a wideband that lets you configure the analog output range is ideal, since you could output a fairly narrow range and gain more linearity (that's why the AEM was nice)

Steveo: any chance you recall what p/n you're referring to here? I added a wire to D27 for this (yes, I have and use my a/c even with a ~475hp cam) and I'm getting ready to weld in an o2 bung this weekend. I'd like to do my research now so I know how much I'm going to need to save for the AEM.

Trevor: curious how it's going. Have you caught your breath yet? I recall where I was about a year ago when I first started trying to get <everything> dialed in. Thanks to kur4o and steveo we all have a few more tools at our disposal. In hindsight I wish I'd been more patient and methodical. A lot of time was wasted trying to tackle several problems at once. I think / hope kur4o's individual cylinder trim hack will make idle tuning for a choppy cam a lot easier.

[Trevor]

Well my progress was delayed by an wrist injury and holidays, but hopefully this weekend the subframe will be pulled to install the engine. I did do a little tuning on my buddies lt1 camaro. Amazed at how easy it was, of course all I did was tune out the emissions crap

[steveo]

Steveo: any chance you recall what p/n you're referring to here? I added a wire to D27 for this (yes, I have and use my a/c even with a ~475hp cam) and I'm getting ready to weld in an o2 bung this weekend. I'd like to do my research now so I know how much I'm going to need to save for the AEM.

it was a long time ago and a borrowed unit? it had a serial cable for configuration. you could set the 0v=AFR and 5v=AFR, so you could use 9:1-16:1 or something and it would be very accurate. i think there are other widebands with this level of configuration. just don't buy an unconfigurable one...

[spfautsch]

Hope things go better for you than mine did. I did manage to get the engine stuffed back in last saturday, but not before I got a bad cramp tightening the last motor mount bolt and dropped the ratchet on my head. Thankfully it didn't need stitches.

I'll have to read the manuals, but it looks like all of AEM's have adjustable analog outputs. This one looks like what I was wanting, but it seems like the integrated gauge models are a lot cheaper. I have to wonder why.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/wideband-uego-air-fuel-controllers/x-series-inline-wideband-uego-afr-controller

While this one is ~$70 cheaper on that one website that starts with an a.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/wideband-uego-air-fuel-controllers/digital-wideband-uego-afr-gauge/digital-wideband-uego-afr-gauge

[spfautsch]

it was a long time ago and a borrowed unit? it had a serial cable for configuration. you could set the 0v=AFR and 5v=AFR, so you could use 9:1-16:1 ...

After quite a bit of searching I've been unable to locate anything they're currently selling that is configurable over serial. They do make a 4 channel controller that can be configured over CAN but it's awfully pricey.

Thinking I'm going to buy one of these (http://aemelectronics.com/?q=products/gauges/digital-gauges/x-series-wideband-uego-afr-sensor-controller-gauge) gauge setups - they appear to be quite a bit cheaper for the same functionality as the "inline" setups. I would assume this is because the electronics for the gauges don't need to be weather resistant.

[kur4o]

I got an Innovate mtx-l unit. It does have logging capabilities through serial and can be configured. I don`t recommend it since after not much use it produce some electrical noise on the radio.
The best way to log will be through serial integration over com port. Not sure how hard it will be to add that in eehack.

[Eds]

After quite a bit of searching I've been unable to locate anything they're currently selling that is configurable over serial. They do make a 4 channel controller that can be configured over CAN but it's awfully pricey.

Thinking I'm going to buy one of these (http://aemelectronics.com/?q=products/gauges/digital-gauges/x-series-wideband-uego-afr-sensor-controller-gauge) gauge setups - they appear to be quite a bit cheaper for the same functionality as the "inline" setups. I would assume this is because the electronics for the gauges don't need to be weather resistant.

Look at the wideband controllers sold by Ecotrons. May be what you are looking for.
http://www.ecotrons.com/products/accurate_lambda_meter/

[steveo]

it wasn't an AEM i used before, it was an innovate LC series gauge

this is the key to getting decent output from that gauge, just set a narrow AFR range from 0-5

[Jonas_Ohman]

Soo, last night i finally got some time to do some WOT tuning, but, I wasn´t able to make any changes in TunerPro.

This morning i tried to change the .XDF file for an otherone (after i reinstalled TunerPro), and then it was possible...

Anyone else who experienced this?

1313113132

[steveo]

eex good.

whatever other one you were using...bad

[Jonas_Ohman]

I forgot to mention it´s the same bin, different values depending of which XDF I´m using.
The EE XDF is from TunerPro homepage.

Now I don´t know which to use, but the EEX doesn´t allow me to change the table, and as far as I have seen it´s the only table that doesn´t work correctly for me.

I attatched the .BIN, if anyone have the time to take a look of it...

//Jonas

[steveo]

works fine for me with EEX

[Jonas_Ohman]

works fine for me with EEX

No problem with values? If I write 0 in the RPM table, save and then open the same table, the value has changed to 0,5...