APU-1 Emulation Stutter

[bgott]

Background:

16197427 BJYK $0D Mask
350 TBI 4x4 Suburban 4L60E w/ Moates APU-1 in simultaneous emulation/datalog mode.

The engine is essentially stock with the exception of a Summit K1102 Camshaft. Currently running a stock tune and it runs OK. For those of you who have read my other posts, I am trying to tune this engine to get a feel for how to do so before spending money building my next engine and not understanding how to tune and damaging it. FULL DISCLOSURE: this engine has either a blown head gasket or cracked head. It has not affected performance much but it is something that could be skewing my results and causing me issues.

Running the bins attached with the APU-1 I have in emulation mode with any bins I have and I have issues at idle with huge dips in RPM/SA/BLM/etc.

Basically what I have tried to do is start with the stock bin and ensure that it emulates without issue for the truck with a stock L05. Running the unmodified BIN or any others I have tried still results with this issue so I am wondering if it is a communication issue between the laptop/apu-1 or the apu-1/ECU. It's almost like it loses connection for a second and then recovers. It seems to be a non-issue while cruising.

Attached are the logs. As I am new to this any help is appreciated. There are also two logs with the Stock Tune if it may help to compare them to the emulated BIN.

[bgott]

Background:

16197427 BJYK $0D Mask
350 TBI 4x4 Suburban 4L60E w/ Moates APU-1 in simultaneous emulation/datalog mode.

The engine is essentially stock with the exception of a Summit K1102 Camshaft. Currently running a stock tune and it runs OK. For those of you who have read my other posts, I am trying to tune this engine to get a feel for how to do so before spending money building my next engine and not understanding how to tune and damaging it. FULL DISCLOSURE: this engine has either a blown head gasket or cracked head. It has not affected performance much but it is something that could be skewing my results and causing me issues.

Running the bins attached with the APU-1 I have in emulation mode with any bins I have and I have issues at idle with huge dips in RPM/SA/BLM/etc.

Basically what I have tried to do is start with the stock bin and ensure that it emulates without issue for the truck with a stock L05. Running the unmodified BIN or any others I have tried still results with this issue so I am wondering if it is a communication issue between the laptop/apu-1 or the apu-1/ECU. It's almost like it loses connection for a second and then recovers. It seems to be a non-issue while cruising.

Attached are the logs. As I am new to this any help is appreciated. There are also two logs with the Stock Tune if it may help to compare them to the emulated BIN.

Well I managed to find a workaround temporarily, and it does seem that the emulation is causing this. I took the same BIN, a custom tune I had made with different fueling tables, and burned it to a chip using flash'n'burn and the tune worked seamlessly when using the G1 adapter. I verified the tune against the BIN file using flash'n'burn and also TunerPRO RT's compare function (downloaded the BIN from the chip after burning and used the function).

So, if anyone else is having a similar issue to this using the APU-1 this works as a workaround. I left a voicemail for Moates and will post back once I find out if there is any rhyme or reason to this issue with emulation. I am pleased with the performance of the bin so far, granted I haven't dyno'd it or anything, but it does feel a bit better and seems to idle a bit smoother.

[57 Handyman]

For clarification, are you saying the comms link between your APU1 and computer goes down for a brief period and you lose data then it starts back up without your intervention? How are you connected to your vehicle via ALDL? I ask because I had similar experience using TPRT and APU1 via the ALDL and attributed it to my jury-rigged/weird wiring between the fixed ALDL and APU1 connector.

A while back, in response to my inquiry about similar disconnect experience, Dave W mentioned that only 3 Pins (A, B, and E wire moved to M) on the ALDL need to be connected to the APU1 connector. In order to ONLY have 3 inputs to the APU, I used jumpers between the ALDL and the APU connector. Try taking a look at that connection point and get back to us.

[bgott]

For clarification, are you saying the comms link between your APU1 and computer goes down for a brief period and you lose data then it starts back up without your intervention? How are you connected to your vehicle via ALDL? I ask because I had similar experience using TPRT and APU1 via the ALDL and attributed it to my jury-rigged/weird wiring between the fixed ALDL and APU1 connector.

A while back, in response to my inquiry about similar disconnect experience, Dave W mentioned that only 3 Pins (A, B, and E wire moved to M) on the ALDL need to be connected to the APU1 connector. In order to ONLY have 3 inputs to the APU, I used jumpers between the ALDL and the APU connector. Try taking a look at that connection point and get back to us.

I am connected in the "simultaneous datalogging and emulation mode" specified by moates. They have a proprietary ALDL cable with a CAT5 end that plugs into the APU-1/OPD1 port and then the emulation cable from the APU-1 goes to the ECU. Then, the APU-1 is connected via USB to my datalogging/emulating laptop. As this cable has the cat 5 termination are you suggesting I dissect it and then jumper the wires? I don't mean to sound sarcastic, I'm being serious. I know there are several variations of the APU-1 in existence. IE some have serial ALDL cables some have the CAT5 version.

Basically, it's more or less that the connection drops for a split second and then recovers the next. The engine shutters but doesn't stall and there doesn't seem to be a rhythmic pattern. These errors don't seem to occur singularly, that is they don't only ever happen once in a short time. Typically it is a short burst of them, maybe two or three. They are not in rhythm however. The logs show this a bit.

Again, I have a workaround in the interim that is working successfully and really I don't have a specific need for the emulation, but it would be nice as opposed to having to burn chips.

[stew86MCSS396]

It was dave w that suggested to connect only to those 3 pins^^^...as I was perusing the internet stumbled on this pic...
http://shbox.com/1/xraycable.jpg
No need to butcher your store bought cable.

...however @57 Handyman Your last log seemed to have those occasional disconnects as well but I don't seem to recall the engine acting accordingly. Hmmm...come to think of it...do you need to have pin b connected???

[bgott]

It was dave w that suggested to connect only to those 3 pins^^^...as I was perusing the internet stumbled on this pic...
http://shbox.com/1/xraycable.jpg
No need to butcher your store bought cable.

...however @57 Handyman Your last log seemed to have those occasional disconnects as well but I don't seem to recall the engine acting accordingly. Hmmm...come to think of it...do you need to have pin b connected???


Hmmm. I'll have to try that if I still can't get it to work. I don't really neeeeeed the realtime emulation, but considering I paid a premium for the feature it would be nice.

The tune is running pretty well. My BLMs are down from 150 at certain points and are getting towards the low to mid 140s at worst. You can tell where I spend most of my time driving the truck as it is actually darn near perfect, it is hovering around 127.5. Some of the areas where I don't spend much time are still not great. Due to the area I drive it's a bit hard to get some of the combinations of RPM and MAP readings. Does anyone have any suggestion for how to extrapolate these data points? I have read before a post by eagle-mark about basically ignoring the data points with less than a certain number of counts. In addition to this, I am aware of the smoothing command and am assuming that I could do that for nearby cells to where most of my driving is done. For example the cell at 2000 RPM and 60 KPa is likely to be pretty close to 2000 RPM 80 KPA and 2400 RPM and 60 KPa.

Also, thinking the spark tables likely need adjusted for this cam. The same grind Edelbrock Cam (2102 Edelbrock vs 1102 Summit) calls for 14° Initial timing and no more than 32° total advance at 3500 RPM. I am assuming running it at stock TBI initial timing with the stock tables isn't getting me the performance I want. Any suggestions?

[bgott]

Little Update:

Just got a call back from Moates tech support, super knowledgeable and friendly as virtually everyone has stated. The tech support agent recommended that I try adjusting the latency in Device Manager from the default value to a lower value and seeing if that helps to eliminate the problem.

I will try this tonight and report back if I get it figured out. If not Moates has said there are some other tricks to try as well.

Really can't emphasize enough how pleasant of an experience I have had with them thus far.

[57 Handyman]

bgott,

Yes, Moates tech support folks are super. With regard to latency, I had read somewhere to put it way down. I have mine at 1.

Ok, you've stated that the only problem you're having is the intermittent loss of data and/or comms connection when cruising and data logging. Correct? If this is correct, you are experiencing the same thing as Stew and I. The problem was solved when we installed individual jumper wires between the ALDL connector on the truck to the ALDL end of the Moates wire (this wire has the Cat5 plug on one end and the ALDL plug on the other--pictured above). The 3 wires needed are Pins A, B, and E.

Dave W told us that sometimes if you connect the ALDL plug on the Moates APU1 wire directly onto the ALDL in the car, the signals/impluses from the other wires cause interference. Once we isolated the input and connected them directly to the APU1, the inconsistent comms problem went away.

Give that a shot!

[bgott]

bgott,

Yes, Moates tech support folks are super. With regard to latency, I had read somewhere to put it way down. I have mine at 1.

Ok, you've stated that the only problem you're having is the intermittent loss of data and/or comms connection when cruising and data logging. Correct? If this is correct, you are experiencing the same thing as Stew and I. The problem was solved when we installed individual jumper wires between the ALDL connector on the truck to the ALDL end of the Moates wire (this wire has the Cat5 plug on one end and the ALDL plug on the other--pictured above). The 3 wires needed are Pins A, B, and E.

Dave W told us that sometimes if you connect the ALDL plug on the Moates APU1 wire directly onto the ALDL in the car, the signals/impluses from the other wires cause interference. Once we isolated the input and connected them directly to the APU1, the inconsistent comms problem went away.

Give that a shot!

Yeah so basically the communications seem to just cut out at points. Not just datalogging or just emulation, but both simulataneously. I will try the 3 pins deal if the latency doesn't fix it, but to be honest now that I have the burned chip working (and a zif socket on the way) I am not terribly worried about it.

I'll try the 3 wire deal just to see if that would work per this diagram 12646

[Keith74]

This is exactly what has been happening with mine as well, so glad there is a answer as to what is going on :jfj:

[bgott]

This is exactly what has been happening with mine as well, so glad there is a answer as to what is going on :jfj:

Well, unfortunately that didn't fix the issue. I would suggest you contact Moates however and see if they can help you further. For me, I don't really need the emulation so I am just going to swap chips from here on out. I have the ZIF socket that moates sells that makes this a ton easier.

[Keith74]

Well I have completed all my tuning after just working through the gliches, but the next drama I am experiencing is removing the autoprom and plugging the chip into the adaptor. The truck runs with the chip in the autoprom but wont when plugged directly into the memcal socket. Any suggestions ?

[stew86MCSS396]

Uhhh...I think there’s specific instructions stating that is what not do.
Perhaps you’re still emulating with last bin loaded in autoprom. Sorta recall when TPRT was glitching, closed TPRT and went as far as rebooting and the engine kept running. Iirc autoprom cannot be hooked up to vehicle when burning a new chip.

[Keith74]

Ohhh so i must have missed that! So how do you just burn the chip from my bin that I have created?

[Keith74]

All good, had a brain fade and forgot about the hardware utility on TP.

[stew86MCSS396]

Huh...what is this utility you speak of? Is it for burning the chips? I don't own an Autoprom but I believe you need software like Flash and Burn that can be downloaded from Moates.

[bgott]

Ohhh so i must have missed that! So how do you just burn the chip from my bin that I have created?

You'll want to use Flash 'n' Burn from moates for this. You'll place your chip into the ZIF socket on the APU-1 with the notch towards the handle, biased away from the handle. Flash 'n' burn should auto detect the APU-1. You'll see a button that says "Load BIN into Buffer". You'll click that then select your bin.

Then I follow this sequence

Erase Chip
Blank Verify
Program Chip
Verify Chip against Buffer

This will burn your bin to the chip.

Then simply place the chip in the G1 Adapter and reinstall the ECU cover and you're done!

[Keith74]

You'll want to use Flash 'n' Burn from moates for this. You'll place your chip into the ZIF socket on the APU-1 with the notch towards the handle, biased away from the handle. Flash 'n' burn should auto detect the APU-1. You'll see a button that says "Load BIN into Buffer". You'll click that then select your bin.

Then I follow this sequence

Erase Chip
Blank Verify
Program Chip
Verify Chip against Buffer

This will burn your bin to the chip.

Then simply place the chip in the G1 Adapter and reinstall the ECU cover and you're done!

Cheers mate thats what I did, I read how to do this when I first started with tuner pro but with all the other things I had to figure out it was lower priority at the time and I forgot about it. Thanks anyway.