Vortec and cam tunes

[kacy]

I started a swap on my 87 tbi truck cam is going to be 214/224 .443/.465 112. I have a basic vortec tune found on this site flashed to a chip, think this will allow the engine to run with this setup?

[Dewayne_S]

I think it should run but likely run rich, especially at idle.

[jim_in_dorris]

Unless you have a set of vortec heads, it will suck. The timing tables will be all wrong

[kacy]

Unless you have a set of vortec heads, it will suck. The timing tables will be all wrong

Sorry it was a long day when I posted, I do have vortec heads

[jim_in_dorris]

Then it will actually run fair. It will take a tune to wake up though. Not a lot of lift, but enough duration you may need to bump idle.

[kacy]

Which would be better for cam break in stock tune or the tune Dave W. Posted for vortecs?

[dave w]

Which would be better for cam break in stock tune or the tune Dave W. Posted for vortecs?
The timing tables is a very important parameter. I'm not sure which tune I posted you are referring to, if the posted tune has the stock Vortec timing table from a Vortec black box PCM it will work better than the stock TBI timing table.

Typically the stock Vortec timing table can be improved when tuning.

dave w

[kacy]

The timing tables is a very important parameter. I'm not sure which tune I posted you are referring to, if the posted tune has the stock Vortec timing table from a Vortec black box PCM it will work better than the stock TBI timing table.

Typically the stock Vortec timing table can be improved when tuning.

dave w

I have been searching for the post with the tune but cannot find it, I have it on a pc at home. It was one you said you tuned for just a head swap and removed egr, AIR and disable lean cruise so it could be used as a base tune.

[stew86MCSS396]

This one maybe??? I've cut and paste known Vortec/LT1 spark tables into my tunes. Not perfect but gets you started.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?408-fuel-curves-for-7747-running-stock-vortec-shortblock

[kacy]

This one maybe??? I've cut and paste known Vortec/LT1 spark tables into my tunes. Not perfect but gets you started.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?408-fuel-curves-for-7747-running-stock-vortec-shortblock

I believe that is the one, won't know for sure till I get home. Thank you for finding that.

[kacy]

This one maybe??? I've cut and paste known Vortec/LT1 spark tables into my tunes. Not perfect but gets you started.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?408-fuel-curves-for-7747-running-stock-vortec-shortblock

It is this tune

hold throttle ope so it runs, working off memory here from snap on mtu2500
1475 rpm
MAP kpa 33
timing light showed 27* with ecm connected

[dave w]

Standard disclaimer ... Likely goes without saying, but here goes anyway ... The .bin files I've posted work well for the vehicle it was originally "Tuned" for. Individual "Tuning" results can / will vary. There is always possibly of damage or personal injury. Use posted .bin files at "Your Own Risk".

Always use a Wide Band Oxygen Sensor when "Tuning". When playing poker, trust everyone at the table, but it's a good plan to "Cut the Deck".

Considering the expensive nature of building an engine, why would anyone not use a Wide Band Oxygen Sensor when starting up / breaking in a new engine?

The "Ultimate EFI Modification" is spelled "Tuning".

dave w

[kacy]

Standard disclaimer ... Likely goes without saying, but here goes anyway ... The .bin files I've posted work well for the vehicle it was originally "Tuned" for. Individual "Tuning" results can / will vary. There is always possibly of damage or personal injury. Use posted .bin files at "Your Own Risk".

Always use a Wide Band Oxygen Sensor when "Tuning". When playing poker, trust everyone at the table, but it's a good plan to "Cut the Deck".

Considering the expensive nature of building an engine, why would anyone not use a Wide Band Oxygen Sensor when starting up / breaking in a new engine?

The "Ultimate EFI Modification" is spelled "Tuning".

dave w

Absolutely, was just looking for some place to start with it. Isn't wide band o2 and narrow band offline at first start?

[dave w]

Absolutely, was just looking for some place to start with it. Isn't wide band o2 and narrow band offline at first start?

Most wide band O2 sensors (WBO2) have a warm up time of about 30 seconds. Connecting the WBO2 to ignition power with power in both "on" & "start" is a good plan. With "Key On / Engine Off" for about 30 seconds will have the WBO2 warmed upped and ready to go when the engine is "cranking / started".

The narrow band O2 is usually showing BLM = 128 until the computer goes into closed loop. Usually, the .bin files are programmed for closed loop after the engine reaches 135 degrees Fahrenheit.

dave w

[kacy]

Quick video of it idling with iac disconnected.

https://youtu.be/sqDFiFHjTEM

[kacy]

fixed shitty link

[kacy]

Here is the data log of the cam break in.

[kacy]

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this

VE = base fuel map
AE = Part throttle acceleration MAP/Modifiers
PE = WOT fuel MAP/Modifiers

[stew86MCSS396]

Datalog looks very rich and your IAC counts looks weird starts high in the beginning and at the end it settles down to zero??? If you can get it to idle decently, consider doing this: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?581-Initial-Setup-of-TBI-TPI-and-MPFI-systems-Min-Air-Adjust-TPS-set-and-Fuel-Pressure

[kacy]

The issue with the IAC is what I am trying to fix, not sure what is going on with it. I changed the VE1 corrected table and got it to idle and start better but now it dies when i put it in gear.

[jim_in_dorris]

The issue with the IAC is what I am trying to fix, not sure what is going on with it. I changed the VE1 corrected table and got it to idle and start better but now it dies when i put it in gear.

Kacy, by any chance have you checked the IAC wiring. I have seen a couple of instances where the IAC wiring was installed incorrectly, especially when changing IAC styles like going to a big block IAC

[kacy]

Kacy, by any chance have you checked the IAC wiring. I have seen a couple of instances where the IAC wiring was installed incorrectly, especially when changing IAC styles like going to a big block IAC

Stock iac and tb, clip on plug lines up with lock on iac

[kacy]

added some fuel to get it to run in gear, took it to the gas station to fill it back up and noticed it was way rich at cruising rpm to and from the station. Multiplied the 1200+ rpm blocks on the map by .75 to reduce the amount of fuel in it and quick burn and drove it home, BLMs were in the 135 range, o2 voltage bounced between .350 and .550 on the trip home last Sat. It has set without being touched since its single digits here, I decided to put a battery tender on it while it sits and I decided to start it. Turned over a few times then fired right up without an issue, I must not be messing it up to bad. Headed on vacation for a week will be back tuning it once I get back, hopefully warmer also.

[kacy]

Datalog looks very rich and your IAC counts looks weird starts high in the beginning and at the end it settles down to zero??? If you can get it to idle decently, consider doing this: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?581-Initial-Setup-of-TBI-TPI-and-MPFI-systems-Min-Air-Adjust-TPS-set-and-Fuel-Pressure

I haven't had a chance to try the idle set procedure as I just got back and its sub freezing here again. When it warms up a bit I will try the reset procedure.

@davew do you remember if that tune was to work with stock pump and psi or TPI pump and 18 psi?

[dave w]

@davew do you remember if that tune was to work with stock pump and psi or TPI pump and 18 psi?
I don't remember.

dave w

[kacy]

I don't remember.

dave w

Ok thanks Dave.

I have correct the IAC issue it now reads between 15-18 steps while idling warm, but ti still idles at 1k rpm will not go lower unless in gear. I sprayed the base of tbi and adapter and no change in rpm to indicate vacuum leak.

[sturgillbd]

A few questions... What ECM are you using? Is it a 1227747? Can you post your bin file? Do you have the park/neutral switch input wired to the ecm? If you post your bin, the xdf, and adx file you are using to datalog with, people on the forum will be able to better help you.

Brian

[kacy]

A few questions... What ECM are you using? Is it a 1227747? Can you post your bin file? Do you have the park/neutral switch input wired to the ecm? If you post your bin, the xdf, and adx file you are using to datalog with, people on the forum will be able to better help you.

Brian

7747 factory install in 87 Chevy truck.

[stew86MCSS396]

In the spark advance table that area between 30-35 kpa, I'd change everything less than 20d to match adjacent cell. Target idle rpm is set at 700 rpm but your cam might be happier at 750 rpms. In the 30-50kpa 800-1200 rpm fatten VE by 5%.

Also your datalog occasionally flashed "Air Diverter"...Adjusting-VE-Fueling-tables-with-BLM-data-Tutorial! (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1895-Adjusting-VE-Fueling-tables-with-BLM-data-Tutorial!)

Now that the VE table is smoothed out we can do some data logging.


To get better data logs there are a few more things to do that helps for accurate data and filling more cells.


Turn off:
1. EGR
2. PE.
3. Air pump.
4. DFCO
5. Hiway Lean Cruise if applicable.


Have vehicle warmed up and driven a little, then start data log. Try and have a route planned where you can drive a steady throttle state, like getting on the freeway at 10% throttle till top speed or whatever is safe. Next on ramp 20%, then 30%, 40%, 50% etc... your coming off freeway and getting back on helps for other data or do some around town driving.

[kacy]

In the spark advance table that area between 30-35 kpa, I'd change everything less than 20d to match adjacent cell. Target idle rpm is set at 700 rpm but your cam might be happier at 750 rpms. In the 30-50kpa 800-1200 rpm fatten VE by 5%.

Also your datalog occasionally flashed "Air Diverter"...Adjusting-VE-Fueling-tables-with-BLM-data-Tutorial! (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1895-Adjusting-VE-Fueling-tables-with-BLM-data-Tutorial!)

I leaned it out at idle because it was so rich at idle that it fogged the 40x60 garage I was working in, I backed it out to break in the cam. Between cam break in, checking for problems and tuning to get it right it burned 1/2 tank of gas.

[stew86MCSS396]

I think your exhaust smelled rich due to not having enough timing. Not enough advance, combustion cycle isn't completed on power stroke sending raw fuel out the pipe. Something that I noticed that I never paid much attention to on the last vehicle I tuned, your MAP at idle hits the 30 kpa range so yeah it's using the 16d of advance which IMO should be in the 20s. Also either your engine pulls a lot of vacuum or your MAP sensor is lying. While not having to deal with it, what elevation are you at?

[kacy]

I think your exhaust smelled rich due to not having enough timing. Not enough advance, combustion cycle isn't completed on power stroke sending raw fuel out the pipe. Something that I noticed that I never paid much attention to on the last vehicle I tuned, your MAP at idle hits the 30 kpa range so yeah it's using the 16d of advance which IMO should be in the 20s. Also either your engine pulls a lot of vacuum or your MAP sensor is lying. While not having to deal with it, what elevation are you at?

I think the vacuum is so high due to the 1k rpm, I saw BLMS of 90 before I tuned it, it was just smell it was burning our eyes.

[kacy]

I think the vacuum is so high due to the 1k rpm, I saw BLMS of 90 before I tuned it, it was just smell it was burning our eyes.

had the truck idling at 600 rpm trying to make sure it was set correctly without the iac involved, reconnected IAC back to 1k rpm. Any suggestions where else to look.. I also upped the timing in the area mentioned earlier to 20 and it still idles high.

[jim_in_dorris]

had the truck idling at 600 rpm trying to make sure it was set correctly without the iac involved, reconnected IAC back to 1k rpm. Any suggestions where else to look.. I also upped the timing in the area mentioned earlier to 20 and it still idles high.

Just for giggles, disconnect the throttle linkage and using your hand see if you can close the blades more while it is idling.

[kacy]

Just for giggles, disconnect the throttle linkage and using your hand see if you can close the blades more while it is idling.

Figured it out, there is a IAC idle C/L ALDL was set to 1000 rpm. IF a chip is put in ecm backward can that mess it up? @Davew?

[stew86MCSS396]

Crap I had a hunch that it might be the way you're hooking up to your ALDL port, but I assumed you knew what you were doing. :mad1: So did you adjust that down from 1000 rpms or did you remove the 10k resistor from the equation?

[kacy]

Crap I had a hunch that it might be the way you're hooking up to your ALDL port, but I assumed you knew what you were doing. :mad1: So did you adjust that down from 1000 rpms or did you remove the 10k resistor from the equation?

mechanically sure, tuning this efi...still learning. i adjusted it down to 800 with target idle at 700

[stew86MCSS396]

All Read 10k resistor (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?719-Uber-easy-DIY-USB-ALDL-Cable/page4)

[kacy]

All Read 10k resistor (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?719-Uber-easy-DIY-USB-ALDL-Cable/page4)

borrowed a moates cable, still need the resistor?

[stew86MCSS396]

Click on the link^^^I provided above...only $6E needs the 10k resistor.

[dave w]

IF a chip is put in ecm backward can that mess it up? @Davew? I think the ECM will go into limp mode with a chip installed backwards. Likely the chip will be damaged if installed backwards.

dave w

[dave w]

I thought posting my replay to a PM on this thread would be helpful for 7747 tuning.

There are comments in TunerPro, use the F10 key to see the comments.

See screen shots of some VE Table comments for $42.

dave w

[kacy]

I thought posting my replay to a PM on this thread would be helpful for 7747 tuning.

There are comments in TunerPro, use the F10 key to see the comments.

See screen shots of some VE Table comments for $42.

dave w
well damn now I feel dumb, I was taking pics of the comments so i wouldn't have to keep moving the mouse while mousing over the parameters.

[kacy]

My tcc isnt locking up, I have copied the settings from the AMUR 87 G-R-V Van 5.7TBI 700r4v1.0 vin to my vortec bin and tcc doesnt work in 3rd or OD like it did before the swap. i have adjusted the cable trying to loosen it up so it would allow OD and nothing... Can someone check the bin I have included see if I missed something for TCC?

[kacy]

My tcc isnt locking up, I have copied the settings from the AMUR 87 G-R-V Van 5.7TBI 700r4v1.0 vin to my vortec bin and tcc doesnt work in 3rd or OD like it did before the swap. i have adjusted the cable trying to loosen it up so it would allow OD and nothing... Can someone check the bin I have included see if I missed something for TCC?


Anyone? Davew?

[dave w]

Try the opposite copy / paste, move the modified fuel and spark tables into a known good TCC .bin.

There is also the compare function in TunerPro to verify the TCC parameters are the same between two .bin files. Load the compare .bin file, then from TunerPro Tools menu, use the Difference Tool.

dave w

[kacy]

Try the opposite copy / paste, move the modified fuel and spark tables into a known good TCC .bin.

There is also the compare function in TunerPro to verify the TCC parameters are the same between two .bin files. Load the compare .bin file, then from TunerPro Tools menu, use the Difference Tool.

dave w

either I missed the option for manual transmission or unchecked it somewhere along the way lock up works but it hunts between 3rd and od below 60mph