Swap: 5.7 TBI -> Vortec heads EFI -> 0411 pcm with roadrunner from moates.net-HELP!!! [Archive]

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Aksl

09-29-2017, 11:17 PM

Hello everyone,

Well, i have a 1990 k1500 5.7 Silverado stepside 2-door 4wd.

I have rebuild the engine, installed KB 0.25 forged pistons, comp cam 08-467-8, 1998 tahoe cylinder heads with manifold and all upper parts, AC DELCO 217-3029 89060440 spider injector kit.

And runned in to alot of problems, programming the blackbox pcm for my setup, basically becouse i left the 4R700 gearbox, had to run a manual gearbox tune, that does not regulate the idle when in D position. Anyway, changing the tune is a pain in the ....

At different forums, as well here, i was adviced to have a look at moaets.net roadrunner and 0411 swap, becouse with it, i would be able to change my tune in real time.

I have bought 0411 from moates.net, bought an 4L65E used transmission, and was getting ready to install all that and make the final swap, just had the last bit, is buying a software to flash in and tune the 0411 PCM, since it comes without tune. So i chose the EFI Live software, that costs 250$ per single vin licence. And contacted moates.net, to make sure i cose the correct user friendly software and will be able to start my swap. So yes, EFI Live was the right choice, but i was recomended to get the EFI Live v2 cable, that costs 900$.

So my questions are:

1. Is someone here using roadrunner with 0411 PCM with EFI Live software?
2. Are you as well using EFI Live v2 cable, and what for?
3. Can i flash tune to roadrunner via usb cable comming out of the 0411 PCM i recieved from moates.net with roadrunner preinstalled and usb cable out of pcm?
4. Can in realtime make changes to the tune via that cable?
5. At moates.net, i was adviced to get EFILive FlashScan V2 cable to integrate the datalogging and emulation, that makes me confused, does that mean i can not load a tune without this flash tool and cannot use real time emulation?, than what is the usb cable for, that is sticking out of the 0411 PCM and is connected to roadrunner, that sits in pcm insead of the original chip.

I'm confused, please, could someone explain!
I mean, i will be very disapointed if it's all that way, and extra 900$ to spend, i mean if i have to, i will, since i am already involved myself into all that, but it is really not clear for me...

Thank you in advance!

Aksl

10-01-2017, 10:41 AM

Ok, since no one is answearing, the main question, what do i need the usb cable for, thats coming out of my 0411 PCM with Roadrunner in it, i did some web search, and found only one article about moates.net and its roadrunner product, explaining it more or less precise. Here it is: http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/0611gm-moates-roadrunner/

And as i understood the info from it, it is all this way.:
If you have an odb ll programmer, like EFI Live, with it you can flash and change tunes whith your vehicle non working, and than start your car and check the result. If you get roadrunner installed instead of your chip, you will be able to change the tune while car is running, and see the result straight away. But you still need the programmer.

Lextech

10-02-2017, 01:24 AM

Aksl

10-02-2017, 01:44 AM

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for your advice, i sure will direct my question there, i runned in to EFILive forum, but just didn't have it in mind, and sure did not know, they have some subsection directed to 0411/Roadrunner setup.

Thanks alot!

Aksl

10-02-2017, 01:48 AM

Ow, and by the way, thank you very much for sending me the file, with wiring set up for the swap of blackbox to 0411 PCM. I realy appreciate it!!

Thank you very much! :) ��

ScottP

10-02-2017, 07:14 PM

I use my Roadrunner PCM with TunerCat, not EFI Live, but the answer is the still the same.

The Roadrunner PCM no longer has flash memory - the Roadrunner emulator module replaces it internal to the PCM.
The USB cable exiting the 411 PCM is used to program the Roadrunner emulator PCB - no additional programming
hardware is required. When you buy the realtime option for either EFILive or TunerCat, it gives you the ability
to write directly to the Roadrunner PCM through the USB port, both to do a full program, as well as for making
changes in realtime.

At some point, you may want to remove the Roadrunner PCM from this project vehicle and use it in another
project. When that happens, you will then need a means to flash a standard 411 PCM with the file you will
have developed using the Roadrunner. This is where the EFI Live programming cable comes in - it will allow
you to flash program a stock 12200411 PCM.

-Scott

Aksl

10-03-2017, 03:30 PM

ScottP

10-03-2017, 08:04 PM

I guess it all depends upon what you started out with. I started using Tunercat nearly 20 years ago, so for me its perfectly intuitive.
I also bought the OBD2 software the moment it was available, so I don't deal with any licensing nonsense. I can program any PCM
I want any time I want. The downside is that there really isn't any scantool software available for the Tunercat interface cable (at
least none that I'm aware of - someone correct me if I'm wrong here). I also own and use HPTuners, so I rely on that for scanning/
datalogging.

The advantage of EFILive over Tunercat is that its a better integrated package. All of the scanning/editing/flashing utilities are nicely
integrated into one package and one basic user interface. The same can be said of HPTuners, but they don't support the Roadrunner.

-Scott

Aksl

10-03-2017, 09:13 PM

Thank you for sharing Scott!

Hog

10-03-2017, 09:28 PM

Hello Scott,

Thank you very much for commenting, and saving me a fortune on the v2 flash scan. I am building this vehicle for my personal use, and I will not be using roadrunner for commercial usage, just for my vehicle and my self. So thank you very much for making it clear for me. I will be using EFI Live software, becouse it seems to be more friendly for user. I will still have to learn it, becouse i never used it, but as i know TunerCat iss much more complex to use, is that true by your opinion, regarding thet you are using TunerCat, and you are used to it?

Well and plus to all, EFI Live license are cheapper than same license for TunerCat...

Tunercat Vehicle Definition Files(VDFs) are not VIN locked, so if you got a VDF for the 1996-97 Vortec trucks, for $79.95 you could literally tune every single 96-97 truck in existence. With EFILive you'd have to pay $125 per vehicle. TC2 licensing is much less expensive for anyone that is tuning and flashing to the vehicles ECM/PCM/VCM.

Heres the TCII VDF (license) list.
OBD2_07
1996 - 97 Vortec Trucks (4.3L, 5.0L, 5.7L, 7.4L)

OBD2_06
1998 - 00 Vortec Trucks (4.3L, 5.0L, 5.7L, 7.4L)

OBD2_02
1999 - 00 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)

OBD2_19
1999 - 00 Medium Duty Trucks (7.4L MFI Gas)

OBD2_03
2001 - 02 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)

OBD2_04
2003 - 05 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)

OBD2_14
2006 - 07* LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)
(*only 2007 trucks with old style PCM are supported)

OBD2_29
2002 - 05 L6 4.2L Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada

OBD2_50
2007 - 08 V8 Trucks & SUVs (CAN Bus E38 ECM)

OBD2_51
2009 - 15 V8 Trucks & SUVs (CAN Bus E38 ECM except L96 6.0L Heavy Duty Trucks)

OBD2_52
2007 - 14 V6 4.3L Trucks & SUVs (CAN Bus E37 ECM)
2007 - 2011 HHR 2.2, 2.4L
2008 - 2010 Saturn Vue 2.4L

OBD2_59
2008 – 2009 Cadillac SRX 4.6L
2008 – 2012 Chevy Colorado 2.9L, 3.7L and 5.3L
2007 – 2009 Chevy Trailblazer, SS 4.2L, 5.3L and 6.0L
2008 – 2012 GMC Canyon 2.9L, 3.7L and 5.3L
2007 – 2009 GMC Envoy 4.2L, 5.3L
2008 – 2010 Hummer H3, H3T 3.7L and 5.3L
2006 – 2007 HHR 2.4L
2007 – 2009 Uplander
2008 Saturn Vue
2008 Acadia 3.6L

OBD2_40
2014 - 17 V8 Trucks & SUVs (CAN Bus E92 ECM)
(not including heavy duty trucks with L96 6.0L)

OBD2_42
2011 - 17 Heavy-duty Trucks with L96 6.0L engine (CAN Bus E78 ECM)

V8 Cars
OBD2_08
1996 - 97 LT1 Corvette, Camaro, Firebird, Impala

OBD2_09 1997 - 98 LS1 Corvette, Camaro, Firebird

OBD2_01
1999 - 01 LS1 Corvette, Camaro, Firebird
1999 - 2001 Holden

OBD2_05
2002 - 03 LS1 Corvette, Camaro, Firebird

OBD2_20
2002 - 2004 Holden

OBD2_10
2004 LS1 Corvette

OBD2_12 2004 GTO

OBD2_13 2004 - 05 Cadillac CTS-V

OBD2_53
2010 - 2015 Camaro V8

2009 - 2013 Corvette (except 2011 ZR1)

2011 - 2014 Caprice 6.0L

2014 - 2015 Chevy SS

OBD2_55
2006 - 2008 Corvette

2006 - 2007 Holden

OBD2_57
2006 – 2009 Cadillac DTS, STS and XLR with the

4.4L S.C. and the 4.6L engines

2006 – 2009 Cadillac CTS-V

2006 Cadillac STS

2007 – 2009 Chevy Impala 5.3L

2006 Chevy Malibu 3.9L

2008 Chevy Malibu 3.6L

2007 Chevy Monte Carlo SS 5.3L

2009 Chevy Corvette ZR1

2007 – 2009 Buick Lucerne 4.6L

2008 – 2009 Buick Lacrosse 5.3L

2007 – 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix 5.3L

2006 Pontiac G6

2007 Saab 5.3L

2009 Saab 6.0L

GMPP E67 Calibrations
OBD2_58
2010 – 2011 Cadillac DTS 4.6L

2010 Cadillac STS 4.6L

2010 – 2015 Cadillac CTS-V

2010 – 2013 Chevy Corvette ZR1

2012 – 2014 Camaro ZL1

2010 – 2012 Chevy Malibu 3.6L

2010 – 2011 Buick Lucerne 4.6L

OBD2_41
2014 – 2017 Corvette

2016 – 2017 Camaro LT1

2016 – 2017 Cadillac CTS-V

2014 – 2017 Cadillac CTS 3.6L Turbo

2017 Cadillac XTS 3.6L Turbo

Plus a bunch of V6 & 4 Cyl. Cars that I have left out of this post.

Transmissions
OBD2_60 2007 - 2015 T42 Transmission Controller - 4 speed Automatic
OBD2_61 2007 - 2017 T43 Transmission Controller - 6 speed Automatic

Tunercat was designed for people with experience, that know the lingo and how certain changes will affect the vehicle, while EFILive "holds your hand" a little more. The main advantage of EFILive over TC2 is that it has the scanning/logging functions whereas TC2 doesn't. Since you wont be having any of these functions the difference between the 2 systems grows much smaller. You will be changing values pretty much in the blind. Stripped down to simple calibration editing like EFILive will be in the manner in which you will be using it, some might say that Tunercat is easier to use. The big advantage for you to begin tuning on your own is that Roadrunner. If you change a shiftpoint, you'll be able to test it immediately, no waiting to flash the PCM. Lean out the PE mode fueling and bang, you can test the results immediately. If I did just those two changes, edit the shiftpoint, save, flash to PCM, test drive, edit PE fueling, save flash to PCM, testdrive heck there's a 1/2 hour easy. With the Roadrunner, the actual testing is the lengthy step.

Tunercat only allows you to make changes to a calibration and uses WinFlash to upload/download calibrations to the PCM/ECM/VCM. EFILive has the scanning/logging function(if you buy the whole V9 system for $900 plus $125 a vehicle) whereas TC2 is for editing and its
WinFlash program is for flashing the calibrations into the controller.

But since you have a PCM with a Roadrunner "emulator" installed and you plan to run the truck the entire time, you wont need some of the products.

In addition to a PCM with the Roadrunner installed, you will need.
RoadRunner Realtime License $249 from EFIlive
This license allows unlimited tuning of ANY vehicle supported by your RoadRunner PCM emulator while the RoadRunner PCM emulator is fitted to that vehicle. Each Roadrunner license is locked to each specific Roadrunner Serial Number hardware.
At this point, you wont be able to do any scanning/logging or flashing of a PCM. In essence, you are limited to pretty much what Tunercat 2 does(as it doesn't have scanning/logging support, but flashing is done via WinFlash for TC2)
http://www.efilive.com/roadrunner-realtime-license

Upgrading Tunercats 2 software to R/T(RealTime) with the OBDII RT Tuner program costs $79.95. This is an upgrade for current OBDII Tuner users to the OBDII RT Tuner program. This is Johns price directly from Tunercat. This same package costs $125 from Moates.
Tunercat-$79.95
http://tunercat.com/ (this address wont take you directly to the product, you must select the product once you get to the TC site)
Moates-$125
http://www.moates.net/tunercat-obd2tuner-roadrunner-software-upgrade-p-112.html?cPath=100_55

The Roadrunner pre-installed into a PCM case is $599 and is in stock right now at Moates.
http://www.moates.net/roadrunner-ls1-realtime-emulation-pcm-p-105.html?cPath=95

TunerCat RoadRunner RTTuner with 1 definition file is $225, again $25 less than the EFILive Roadrunner license, and you still
This is only available for purchase with RoadRunner hardware. It includes TunerCat software with ONE VDF (type of ECM/vehicle). If you are looking for a solution for your vehicle and your RoadRunner, this is all you need.

You can purchase additional VDF definitions separately if you need to tune additional vehicles types separately.
You can purchase the WinFLASH software for flashing over the OBD2 port separately.

Winflash software and cable allows you to flash a PCM with the calibration you have developed with the Roadrunner. It doesn't include the actual TC2 software so you wont be able to edit a calibration WinFlash simply allows you to download or flash calibrations from/to PCMs.
http://www.moates.net/winflash-tunercat-cable-and-reflash-software-for-rtobd2-users-p-115.html?cPath=100_55

#1)The 512kb 2001-2002 L31 Vortec 350 calibration files used in the vans. This uses the stock 4x CKP sensor signal and the stock distributer based ignition, single coil-8 long spark plug wires. The distributer supplies the 1x CaMshaft Position sensor
( CMP sensor signal), in addition to distributing the high voltage electricity to each of the 8 plug wires/plugs and also driving the oil pump.

or

#2)a calibration file from the 2003 LS1/6 Corvette (as some 2003 Vettes came stock with 0411 PCMs) 5.7 liter file with Coil Near Plug(CNP) ignition(requires an aftermarket 24x crank reluctor and stock OEM 1x camshaft position sensor(CMP sensor signal-from distributer that drives oil pump as well). Since you would not be using the distributer to distribute high voltage electricity to the plug wires/plugs with this option, you can either install the old 9 port flat crab distributer cap on top of the distributer body, or buy an aftermarket EFIConnection cap specifically cast for this purpose, or locate a new/used black plastic cap that was used OEM on the 1998-2001 GEN-VI(GEN-6) Vortec 7400 BBC that used rpo codes L21/VP4. One application is the 1998-2001 Kodiak/Topkick 1998-2001 P21 Workhorse Chassis. When looking for L21 parts, ensure that you are selecting the 454 with the SHORT CNP spark plug wires. Another aid in selecting L21 parts, is knowing that ALL Vortec 7400 L21 engines used Electronic Throttle Control(ETC). When searching at a bone yard or when searching through the drilldown columns on a website. If the Vortec 7400 has the long plug wires and cable throttle is automatically 100% for the 1996-2000 454 used in all the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, and if the Vortec 7400 engine has the short CNP spark plugs and the ETC assembly, you 100% sure know that you are dealing. You can still order the OEM L21 454 part that contains the distributer body, the distributer gear(for steel roller cams) the plastic round part where the distributer shaft begins and where the 1x reluctor wheel sits(where the distributer rotor would sit if this was for a L29 BBC and it is all covered up by a flat topped black plastic cap. In short, this part is a conventional 1996-2000 Vortec V8 distributer, with the distributer rotor not installed, topped off with a flat cap with no ports, instead of the 9 port(1 coil wire and 8 plug wires) flat crab distributer cap. Its sometimes referred to as the Camshaft Position Sensor assembly.

Another clue to differentiate an L21 from an L29 is that the L21 uses a 512kb PCM with dual 80 pin connectors and the 96-2000 VCM uses 4 30-34 pin connectors along with another small connector. Very easily distinguished.
Also the:
1998-2001 GEN 6 Vortec 7400 rpo L21=engine code
1996-2000 GEN 6 Vortec 7400 rpo L29=engine code

or

3) 512kb LS1 5.7 liter Camaro/Firebird(4th GEN F-body)would give you CNP ignition coupled with the conventional non electronic throttles(just like the stock Vortec 305/350 L30/31). This like option #2 requires the aftermarket 24x CKP sensor signal along with the stock OEM 1x CMP sensor signal supplied by the distributer, with a flat distributer cap installed atop it.

You can also use some of the GMT-800 trucks(GMT-800=1999-2007 trucks) but you have to ensure the 512kb PCM size as most went to the 1Meg PCM by 2004, and ensure the calibration file is either cable throttle or ETC.

But for right now it appears that you are going with option #1 which will work just great.

Most people use an emulator like the Roadrunner simply to save time and for some of the benefits of being able to adjust parameters in Real Time. With an emulator you no longer have to make a change, save that change in your tuning software, then connect to the ECM/PCM/VCM and then flashing that calibration. Then if tuning in vehicle, dynoing or driving to test your change. With the emulators, you simply make a change in calibration using your tuning software, then enter it. You'll hear the Roadrunners beep beep and instantly you can test your changes. It speeds up the process much quicker. When I do some Blackbox VCM tuning, after I begin to flash the PCM, I can go outside and have a full cigarette and come back inside and the computer is still flashing the controller. So having an emulator would really speed up my process of making a change the waiting for the flash of the PCM.(it would also really decrease my cigarette smoking lol)

After you have got your tune where you want it using the Roadrunner, you can create a calibration file and save it to your laptop/PC in the EFILive or Tunercat 2 file format, then remove the Roadrunner hardware from the vehicle, install the appropriate controller(ECM/PCM/VCM) in your case the 0411 box and then flash that 0411 controller with the saved calibration file that you have saved on your laptop/PC. To do this would require extra software for both TC2 and EFILive.

It's not common to leave the Roadrunner installed as not many people use an emulator for a single project as they are not cheap.

If you plan to leave the Roadrunner emulator in your truck for the rest of the trucks service life, then you wont need the flashing function of the EFILive software or the Tunercats 2(called WinFlash).

Because John(the owner of Tunercat) sold the rights to TC2 shortly after bringing TC2 to market, he could no longer sell TC2 directly to the public. In order to buy TC2 software, you must buy the R/T TC2 software along with a Roadrunner purchase, or already be an owner of the Roadrunner setup.

I know of people who have bought the Roadrunner package just to get the Tunercat 2 software.

TL;DR In addition to the Roadrunner hardware, you will still need the Roadrunner software from either Tunercat or EFILive and EFIlives advantages go away once you strip it down to a calibration editor like you are doing. I'm also not seeing the EFILive being cheaper, it appears to me that TC2 is less expensive than EFILive when using Roadrunner. Then if flashing controllers, there is no question that Tunercat 2 is less expensive, by far.

I have no experience with EFILives customer service, but John at Tunercat sends me updates and basic stuff like that, usually within minutes.

Just one persons experience, mileage may vary.

peace
Hog

Aksl

10-04-2017, 05:03 PM

Hello Hog,

Thank you very much for your wide open reply. You gave alot of helpfull information!, Saying that TC has been designed for more experienced user, well yes, i gues that is why most of people recommend me the EFI Live to start from, and scince i have the RoadRunner already, i can any time purchase the TC in future. Here is a link to a Tuner Cat VS EFI Live forum talk i runned in to recently, it is a rery old one: http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6128&sid=1551567debbd3f20dad5319793174c49, where they say that TC cannot relearn the crank, since it an old article, i wonder, can TC nowdays perform the crank relearn operation?

Unfortunately i can not find a dissent comparison of the two softs, and it is preaty hard to decide which on to choose...

Aksl

10-04-2017, 08:25 PM

So, i have tryed and made a pavement to moates.net, for license of EFI Live, and got an update on my order, asking me to send them a serial number of my EFI Live scan cable, which guess what, i do not have. And i'm not really wealling to buy it for 900$.

So guys, i guess i will have to join you, and go with the TunnerCat.
And i hope you can give me a hand with starup of using TC...

ScottP

10-05-2017, 02:57 PM

Aksl,

Please understand that TC is an editor and flash utility only. It has no scanning or 2-way control capability at all, so it can
not do a crank relearn and can not provide you with any datalogging. You will want to make sure that you have some other
way to log data in order to be able to tune your project.

-Scott

Aksl

10-05-2017, 04:01 PM

Hello Scott,

Thank you for precaution, well, i think i can get way cheapper scanner than EFILive cable, plus i figured out, that if i need a scanner, for crank relearn procedure, it is just one time need procedure to make, i can pay the nearest service center for diagnostic service to be made.
What do you mean by 2-way control capability?
As well i wonder, since you and #Hog use TC, what do you use for scanning, crank relearn, and 2-way control capability (watever that means)...?

Thank you in advance!

ScottP

10-05-2017, 05:11 PM

The 411 PCM (along with many others as well) support commands from the scantool to the PCM. A crank relearn
is an example of one of these commands (also sometimes called 2-way controls). Others that are supported by
EFILive and HPTuners include:

Turning on and off cooling fans, check engine light, ignition coils and injectors
Commanding the engine to a fixed idle speed or IAC position
Commanding the engine to a fixed spark advance or air fuel ratio
Commanding the transmission to a specific gear or line pressure
Locking and unlocking the torque converter

These controls can be very helpful when tuning and troubleshooting a new setup.
I use HPTuners for this capability, as well as for my primary scantool.

-Scott

Aksl

10-05-2017, 05:30 PM

Thank you very much for sharing Scott, well i have a friend that has the Tech2 scan tool, he bought it through Aliexpress, he uses that scan, and i used to borow it of him, before i started this project. I think it can do all that, plus to all, the cost of it was something like 120$.

Hog

10-06-2017, 12:21 AM

2 way controls are better known as Bi-Directional control. Since the engine, trans and Antilock Braking System(ABS) are controlled by the same controller, its called a VCM(Vehicle Control Module). As such if you have a Scan Tool, such as your friends Tech 2, you can do work on your brake system, then use the scan tool to activate the ABS motor in order to clear it of air.
You can activate any electric or aux fans to ensure they are wired correctly
You can engage and lock an electric trans in any gear you wish, as well as toggle the TCC(torque Converter Clutch)

And perform a CASE relearn (CASE=Crankshaft Angle Sensor Error) CASE relearns allow the VCM to accurately detect misfires after a new engine, different crank, new crank reluctor are installed into the truck.

Is there no way to tune with EFILive without buying the V9? I thought you could use a V7 or something like that and only need the V9 for the ability to flash a PCM?

Are you sure that they weren't asking for the number of your Roadrunner so that you could apply the EFILive/Roadrunner license?

peace
Hog

Aksl

10-06-2017, 03:01 PM

Hello Hog,

Yes I`m positive about that, aswell on the official EFILive website of the RoadRunner Realtime License, you have two rows to fill in, marked with a star *, meaning that must fill in, where one is *FlashScan Serial Number and the second one is *RoadRunner Serial Number. so if i just fill in Roadrunner serial number, the EFILive asks me to fill in the *FlashScan Serial Number, which i don`t have. So i thought ok, may be buying through moates.net, i can escape that,but NO.(((
12151
12152

Aksl

10-06-2017, 11:34 PM

Ok guys, if you can help me now, i have got to start my swap soon, and want to get ready for it! In order to do that, i would like to make a step by step instructions on what i will have to do. Now i have on hands a 4L60E transmission, that if i install before the swap, will not work, since in my blackbox i have a tune for a manual transmission, since i have a 700R4 installed. and i have my 0411 PCM with Roadrunner, to make the PCM swap, and TunnerCat RT soft license and software, but when i just try to start it, it gives me an error unable to locate any Diffinition files (i guess it needs the Roadrunner connected via usb cable to work). And i have downloaded the "2002 Chevrolet Express Van Automatic L31 5.7L 4L60e 4wd (12212156)" tune. Now i have to figure out how, and what to do first, where to start, and step by steb to the finish line.

- What do you guys sugest?

- And if i make my pin swap, from blackbox to 0411, and connect my roadrunner installed in it via usb cable, will i be able by the usb, using tunercat RT, load the tune in the 0411 and start working on it?

- Or may be i shall find a donner truck with 0411 installed, and ask the owner to use it, in order to connect my 0411 with the roadrunner installed, to load the tune, and make changes, and then take it off and make my swap (basically use someones track as abench)...?

Thank you in advance!

Aksl

10-08-2017, 01:44 PM

Ok, Stupid me, i did not get the Definition File, from moates, normaly the license for 225$ includes one vdf, i have to apply to moates for it i guess.. But i have to figure out wich vdf i need. As Lextech has writen in his article, i need a "2002 Express Van (OS 12212156)", but i am not sure which it is from this list here, that is at moates.net:

Vehicle Definition
File P/N
Supported Vehicles

Trucks

OBD2_07

1996 – 97 Vortec Trucks (4.3L, 5.0L,
5.7L, 7.4L)

OBD2_06

1998 – 00 Vortec Trucks (4.3L, 5.0L,
5.7L, 7.4L)

OBD2_19
1999 –
00 Medium Duty Trucks (7.4L MFI Gas)

OBD2_03
2001 –
02 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)

OBD2_04
2003 –
05 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)

OBD2_14
2006
– 07* LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)

(*only 2007 trucks with old style
PCM are supported)

OBD2_29
2002
– 05 L6 4.2L Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada

OBD2_50
2007
– 08 V8 Trucks & SUVs (CAN Bus E38 ECM)

OBD2_51
2009
– 12 V8 Trucks & SUVs (CAN Bus E38 ECM except 2011-12 L96 6.0L
Heavy Duty Trucks)

OBD2_52
2007
– 12 V6 4.3L Trucks & SUVs (CAN Bus E37 ECM)

OBD2_59
2008 – 2009 Cadillac SRX 4.6L
2008 – 2012 Chevy Colorado 2.9L,
3.7L and 5.3L
2008 – 2009 Chevy Trailblazer, SS
4.2L, 5.3L and 6.0L
2008 – 2012 GMC Canyon 2.9L, 3.7L
and 5.3L
2008 – 2009 GMC Envoy 4.2L, 5.3L

2008 – 2010 Hummer H3, H3T 3.7L and 5.3L
V8 Cars
OBD2_08
1996 –
97 LT1 Corvette, Camaro, Firebird, Impala

OBD2_09 1997
– 98 LS1 Corvette, Camaro, Firebird
OBD2_01
1999
– 01 LS1 Corvette, Camaro, Firebird

1999 – 2001 Holden
OBD2_05
2002 –
03 LS1 Corvette, Camaro, Firebird

OBD2_20
2002 –
2004 Holden

OBD2_10
2004
LS1 Corvette

OBD2_12 2004
GTO
OBD2_13 2004 – 05 Cadillac CTS-V

OBD2_53
2010
– 12 V8 Camaro / 2009 – 2011 Corvette (except 2011 ZR1)
OBD2_55 2006 – 08 Corvette
OBD2_56 2008 – 09 Pontiac G8 V8
V6 Cars
OBD2_15 1996 Camaro/Firebird
V6
OBD2_16 1997 Camaro/Firebird
V6
OBD2_17 1998 – 1999 Camaro/Firebird
V6
OBD2_18 2000 – 2002 Camaro/Firebird
V6
OBD2_23 1996 V6
Chevy*/Buick/Pontiac* 3.1, 3.4, 3.8L (*except
Camaro/Firebird)
OBD2_24 1997 V6
Chevy*/Buick/Pontiac* 3.1, 3.4, 3.8L (*except
Camaro/Firebird)
OBD2_25 1998 – 1999 V6
Chevy*/Buick/Pontiac* 3.1, 3.4, 3.8L (*except
Camaro/Firebird)
OBD2_26 2000 – 2001 V6
Chevy*/Buick/Pontiac* 3.1, 3.4, 3.8L (*except
Camaro/Firebird)
OBD2_27 2002 – 2003 V6
Chevy*/Buick/Pontiac* 3.1, 3.4, 3.8L (*except
Camaro/Firebird)
OBD2_28 2004 – 2005 V6
Chevy/Buick/Pontiac* 3.1, 3.4, 3.8L (*2004/05 Grand Prix
not
supported)
Transmissions
OBD2_60 2007 – 2012 T42 Transmission
Controller – 4 speed Automatic
OBD2_61 2007 – 2012 T43 Transmission
Controller – 6 speed Automatic

And don`t know if the license will include the transmission or not..

Aksl

10-08-2017, 01:47 PM

Hello Hog, can you please help me choose the tunercat diffinition file i need to start with?

Hog

10-08-2017, 03:54 PM

You will need the VDF for whichever calibration file you want to start with.
I'm assuming that you want to keep the stock distributer and 4x reluctor, so I'd direct you towards the stock 2001-2002 calibrations.

OBD2_03
2001 –
02 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)

I realize that the 5.7 van isn't listed, but is indeed included in this VDF.

peace
Hog

Aksl

10-08-2017, 04:12 PM

Thank you very much Hog! , i will apply to moates for the VDF, you meantioned. And wil start from there. Thank you!

Aksl

10-09-2017, 05:13 PM

It's strange, i did not get any reply from moates.net, but i have downloaded some different vdf files and same result, the tunercat just gives me same error, "unable to locate any Diffinition files".
I as well wonder, I have downloaded the latest RRTuner.exe file, from the link http://www.moates.net/rtobd2-tunercat-roadrunner-rttuner-with-1-def-p-113.html?cPath=100_55 -> Additional Links, and have installed it and registered. The .exe file is called rrtuner.exe, that have installed and registered. I have tryed downloading the .exe file from tunercat.com and upgrating it to RTtuner, but when i tryed to register, it says invalid registration data, and does not exept it for registration.

Aksl

10-10-2017, 08:15 PM

Hi guys, so finally i got the diff files, installed them (well, unpacked to the directory on the program). And got the TC RR Tuner software working. So now I’ll be looking for the most close to my setup tune.
I have downloaded some .xdf & .bin files, but cannot find .cal files. As well, when i opened (loaded) one of the tunes, and had a look in how many different options and changes can be made in the tune, understood that i have a long trial to go through, and a bunch of work to make. Hopefully i will not mess anything up, well i hope i will not!
Does anyone have a clue if there is a list of settings somewhere in the web, i have to consider, and pay attention to??? May be something like that exists???

Aksl

10-11-2017, 12:49 PM

Hi Aksl.
Not very many people have the 0411/Roadrunner setup. Your questions may be answered better by posting them on the EFILive forum. There is a subsection devoted to the Roadrunner. Sorry I can't be any more help than that.

Jeff

Hello Jeff,

Finally i got the TunerCat RT software instead of EFILive, because in order to buy the EFILive license, you are obliged to have the EFILive V2 cable and tuner, otherwise EFILive would not issue the license. So i went with the TunerCat. I`m now looking for the base tune to start of, for my set up. I wonder if you could help me with that. As well i wonder, if there is a list of settings somewhere in the web, that i have to consider, and pay attention to when changinr the tune for my setup???

Thank you!

NISANDA

10-12-2017, 05:15 AM

whats your setup?

Aksl

10-12-2017, 08:17 AM

Hello Nisanda, I have rebuild the engine, installed KB 0.25 forged pistons, comp cam 08-467-8, 1998 tahoe cylinder heads with manifold and all upper parts, AC DELCO 217-3029 89060440 spider injector kit. And i will install 4L60E gearbox. And its a 4wd with manual transfer case.

Ow, and i have no EGR, and a traight out muffler.

NISANDA

10-15-2017, 10:52 AM

But what motor L31 with 411 setup? (With the above mods of course)

Aksl

10-15-2017, 08:00 PM

But what motor L31 with 411 setup? (With the above mods of course)

No, it`s a 350 EFI 1990 engine, with L31 engine heads, manifold and all of the top end is from L31, as well as the wiring under the hood and black box pcm, that i will be swapping to 0411.

NISANDA

10-16-2017, 07:36 AM

Aksl

10-16-2017, 07:51 AM

Here it is a 2001 411pcm L31 4l60e file, has Vats delete Egr,Evap,Cats,Rear 02 sensors deleted and Fan 1,2 Active (Low 200,High 210) other than that its ALL stock, Should be a good base file for you to start with, hope it helps.

Hello Nisanda, thank you very much for providing me with the tune file! I will study it and use it for my 411. I'm just starting to get around the tuning process, and for now studying all the info about it. Any way, thank you once again for the tune, that helps alot!!! Will start doing something, than hope to get support here, at the gearheaf-efi forum, to tune everything properly..

NISANDA

10-16-2017, 09:07 AM

Hello Nisanda, thank you very much for providing me with the tune file! I will study it and use it for my 411. I'm just starting to get around the tuning process, and for now studying all the info about it. Any way, thank you once again for the tune, that helps alot!!! Will start doing something, than hope to get support here, at the gearheaf-efi forum, to tune everything properly..

your welcome

Aksl

10-16-2017, 09:48 AM

your welcome

:thumbsup:

kacy

10-16-2017, 09:51 PM

Did I misunderstand? You rebuilt the TBI engine and used vortec heads and efi? So the ecm cant see the crank position and is probably operating off limp home mode?

Aksl

10-16-2017, 09:57 PM

Did I misunderstand? You rebuilt the TBI engine and used vortec heads and efi? So the ecm cant see the crank position and is probably operating off limp home mode?

Hello Kacy, well not exactly, i used the plastic vortec cap of a 1998 tahoe, with crank position sensor, same tahoe the heads came from.

Let me edit my post, in order to fulfill the answer: I rebuiled the L05 TBI engine, used L31 vortec heads with all the top end from vortec, meaning i installed CSFI, but changed the spider in CSFI for for the one with injectors on the ends "AC DELCO 217-3029 89060440", installed the "Comp Cam 08-467-8". Wiring from vortec and the PCM "Black Box" from Vortec engine as well 1997 or 1998 not sure, but i think 1998. Hope this makes it more clear, if not, i can make it as a list of parts i used for my build.

Regards.

Aksl

10-20-2017, 11:06 AM

Hello Jeff, and everyone,

I`m slowly getting ready for my 0411 swap, and the thing is, I’m going to change the pin contacts for new ones (solder new pins on each wire).

So for that purpose, I have made some sticker marks, that I can print out on the "address sticker label A4 paper" cut in lines, and stick around each wire. I thought it’s a good idea.

So wanted to share it, may be for someone else who will be making 0411 swap, it might be useful.

I used an avery online soft, and their address paper: www.avery.com

Here is avery format file, in case you want to change anything, you can do it online, they have a soft on their website. And a ready to print PDF file, in order to print correctly, in print settings, you have to unmark fit to paper size, and i as well printed in 98% scale.

I as well attach a few pictures of what came out as a result. I find it useful, you just cut it with stationery knife in lines, just not from start to end of "address sticker label A4 paper", but from first sticker to the end of last sticker, to keep the integrity of the A4 paper, it will be easier to un attach each wire sticker label.

Aksl

01-05-2018, 04:40 PM

Marry Cristmas and a Happy 2018 New Year everyone!12458

Aksl

01-10-2018, 03:30 PM

Hello to all Fuel Injected Gearheads,

Thank you all for taking your time, to get acquainted with my project, explaining things to me, advising and helping me!!!

A special thanks to:

Lextech, thank you for providing the wiring file for the swap of black box to 0411 PCM, that made the swap very easy! (I saw all your vids at youtube, all your swaps and upgrades of your truck, very nice, i realy enjoyed watching, and reading your posts!)

Scott & Hog, thank you guys for sharing your knowledge, information about tunercat, PCM, how it all works, and where it will all lead me to, deppending on what i choose, it made my choice very easy, and helped me to understand alot, gave me alot of useful information!

NISANDA, thank you very much for sharing the "2001 Truck 5.7 L31 4l60e 4x2.cal" file, I have used it as a firmware for my swap, and after performing the swap, my truck started imidiately with it, with no problem, so it worked for me for all 100%, thank you!

Now let me update on my project:

Just a few days ago, i have made the swap of my blackBox PCM to 0411, with Excel file from Lextech, i understood that i shouldn't have been getting ready to make this swap for saw long, i sould have just whent for it straight away, becouse it was super easy, i have achieved the swap just in about three hours.

With my Dell D620, where i have installed the TunerCat RT and uploaded to the RoadRunner the "2001 Truck 5.7 L31 4l60e 4x2.cal" that NISANDA have shared. The Truck started immediately.

At first it couldn't idle, it would start, rise rpm, then lower the rpm and shut. The second time, start rise rpm, then lower it, and i tapped the pedal, not to let it shut, and it would rise the rpm again and stay ideling at high rpm, I would say that at about 1500-2000rpm. Now every time i start the truck, i have it ideling at high rpm from the start (it doesen`t lower it any more, and doesnt shut), it just starts, gets to high rpm and stays ideling at the high rpm speed, after it warms up, it doesn`t lower the rpm, but keeps on ideling at high rpm. This is the situation now, that i have to sort out, and as well, have to learn how and what in the firmware file to program with TunerCat RT via RoadRuner guts, it order to tune it all correctly.

As well, straight after the swap, i wanted to re isolate the wiring harness, and found out that some wires in the harness were chopped, the list of chopped wires on the picture attached from excel file print screen. Those are wires that are chopped from PCM pin out side, there are a few wires on another picture, that are chopped and coming out from harness, but I doubt they linked to PCM, becouse i checked the pinout chart while making the swap, and had all the wires present at the sockets.
But the list in excel file, of wires coming from the pcm and being chopped, are the once i worry about, some of them can affect the PCM and engine functionality, like the Vehicle Speed Output to Brake control module, and the two wires of VSS for example.

My main brainstorming now, is about scaning, loging tool that i should get, the question is, should i get the Tech2, MDI, or HPtuner for these perpose? I would go with HPtuner and an ODBII cable, but will it have all the functionality as the Tech2 & MDI, will HPtuner be able to make a crank relearn? and falt reading/deleting, scanning and so on..?

As well, is their any howto to using TunerCat, well, not exactly using the TunerCat, i mean a howto to making changes to the firmware, I`m afraid to mess with the tables for now, but other changes thet i tryed to make in TunerCat RT to the firmware, like the IAC counts that i dropped from 310 -> 160, and noticed no result, at least it did nothing to the high rpm the engine idles at. And without actualy fully understanding what i`m playing with, i fill unconfident and uncomfertable making changes, due to worrying that i can brake something.

Anyway, thank you all for help once again, i will keep on stragling with my project, and if you guys have advice for me, i would realy appresiate it, since the information shared by you guys, and your advices, helped me alot before!

Thanks to all, take care!!!

Terminal_Crazy

01-10-2018, 08:08 PM

The third pic with the bunch of wires in hand... It's just like the movies...

Cut the green wire!

Mitch

Aksl

01-10-2018, 08:16 PM

The third pic with the bunch of wires in hand... It's just like the movies...

Cut the green wire!

Mitch

Lol, which one, they are all green... :happy:

NISANDA

01-13-2018, 11:36 AM

what DTCs you have?

Aksl

01-14-2018, 12:33 AM

Hello NISANDA,

Thank you for your reply! The DTC_CNT is 6.12521

I have a total six fault codes, with the engine stall, wanted to perform a live scan, but my battery died, have to charge it now. Almost all faults are solenoids, becouse i am stil with 700r4 transmission, i havent yet installed the 4l60e, have it laying around, have to install.
Well, in fact all of the fault codes are transmission codes.

Aksl

01-14-2018, 10:29 PM

An update on my scaning, today i have performed a live scan, i have uploaded the vid to youtube, here is a link: https://youtu.be/eqPkJdlSkrU

Well, on this video, it was not the first start of the engine, first start the engine started, went on high rpm, then lowered andshyt with an unstable idle. The socond start, same, but i have accelerated, and did not let it shut off. After it had warmed up a little, the third or forth start, thats where this video and scaning has been performed, it started with around 1300rpm, but in about a minute, it raised by it self until 2300-2400rpm, that it is usualy working at with the firmware you have shared. I`m right now reading alot from HPtuners site, since there are a lot of info for people who is just starting to get around tuning the pcm. But still alot to read, alot of comfusing information, i gues becouse it is not yet familiar to me, when i will know all the terms, and meaning, and will not have to every time to address back to the meaning of the terms, and what this or other thing means and does, it will be much easier for me to try and make changes to the tune being more confident that i will not birn my pcm ar the engine.
I have an aftermarket cam, so i have to make setting (changes) to the tune taking that in to account, and as well that i have other then OEM engines heads installed, so there are some mathematics to do, i was even thinking of may be paying some tuning pro in us, like this guy at: http://www.lt1pcmtuning.com, to make me a tune, taking my set up in consideration, and then compairing the original, your tune file, with his, to see what has been changed. As an idea.
It brakes my heart, starting an engine that does not work correctly, after i have build it up all new, pispons, rods, cam, and so on...

Aksl

01-19-2018, 05:29 PM

Yesterday connected the tech ii scanner, well first - therd engine start, the engine idles at 1400 rpm, but in about 30 sec shut, i have to apply the accelerator to keep it running, but it still shuts, the 4th start i manage to keep it running by applying the accelerator, then it starts to reach extreamly high idle of 2300-2400rpm, and keeps runing at that speed, doesnt lower the idle at all. I have connected the tech ii, go to loop, and apply the open loop, the engine dropes the idle to 1250-1400 rpm, as soon as i exit the settings, it goes back to closed loop, rises back the rpm, and SHRTFT bank 1 & bank 2 goes up till 48%. I checked the firmware with tunercat, and it`s set to open loop.
As well it sees the transmission on 3rd gear, all thaw it is not connected, i run the 700R4. If i disconect my IAC, it drops the idle to low 650-750rpm. Anyway, instead of describing all data, let me implement the pictures and an pdf for easier and more clear view. If anyone has any advice, it would be grate, i`m braking my head where to go from here.

Fast355

01-19-2018, 07:52 PM

Aksl

01-19-2018, 08:10 PM

Thank you for your advice, will check it tomorrow, hmm, i didn't think of that! :thumbsup:

I will as well double check the pcm connections, but normaly, since i used Lextech's swaping chart that was very precise. When i was making the swap, i was very careful, i have made stickers with pin and conector specified and marked every wire, plus double checked each wire that i was swaping. And the truck started up from first time.
The mechanical & electrical part is not a problem, it's just time to find the problem, what is a problem for me is, if it's something to do with firmware, a specialy tables.

Aksl

01-21-2018, 08:34 PM

Ok, let me report on my problem, i found what was causing the extreamly high idle.
I noticed that my TPS value is 25%, but i have a cable driven throttle body, so i checked the accelerator cable tension and it was fine, took of the air intake to see that the throttle plate is fully closed, but it was not, and noticed a strange thing. On the side where accelerator cable goes, there is a stop screw, that was fully screwed in, but ok it would not let the throttle valve go open 25%, its too much, well behind the screw there was a nut screwed on, that didnt let the throttle valve close all the way. How did that nut get there, i dont know, i guess the guy who was tuning my black box pcm put it there for some reason, i'm gona ask him next week, but i took the nut away, and the truck started with 0,650rpm, what worries me is that now it's rough idle, outside is -8 but at cold start the idle is low and didn't rise for warmup.

Aksl

01-23-2018, 01:19 PM

Hi everyone, i wonder if anyone has a pinout of the connector C200 for a 1990 k1500 tbi, i have joint some wiring of the c200 in cabin connector with the under hood vortec 1998 wiring, but not all. And i can't find the pinout chart of this connector, neather i can find the pinout of the 1998 vortec under hood wiring of the same side, that lead in to the cabin. If someone has it and can share, would be grate.

Aksl

07-26-2018, 04:04 PM

Hello Nisanda,

I have used the .cal file you have uploaded for me "2001 Truck 5.7 L31 4l60e 4x2.cal" in post 57 of this thread, and i have installed a new 4L60E transmission id: 8KCD283L 20820533. Well i bumped in to a problem that my 0411 pcm doesn't seem to recognize the transmission, i have faults all over, the pwr TCC, the tcc, and oll of the solenoids that the pcm does not see, so the transmission is in the Limp mode. I have contacted the transmission guru, who rebuild my transmission, and checked all of the solenoids, all work fine, have checked the wiring that goes from the PCM to the transmission, it is all good, normally the pcm should see everything, but it doesn't, the transmission guru as well does not know why it seems not to work, he advised me to look at the firmware of the pcm, i did not find anything criminal there. May be you have some clue on my issue.

Thank you in advance.