Another Conversion

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Okay, So I am working on a GM L6 250 fairly stock. it has a GM HEI dizzy. lol
So, I have the TBI installed w adapter plate. it has a TPS - IACV - MAP all hooked up, I also have the o2 sensor installed, coolant temp switch, oil switch. Fuel Pump relayed... So here is the deal.
running all hooked up.. It don't. but will throw code 32. disconnect iac, tps, map. it runs, and is rich as crap! however if I run all connected on 1 injector it will barely start but will start... any body do one of these fuel only swaps? or is there a car that I can rip the dizzy from that will actually FIT my dizzy port that is esc?

Serv No 16144288 AUMJ
Prom AUMJ 1278
bottom of prom is
JT8(G)/J6/P
LFIVN960
AE03

Figure id post some pics of the project as it stands
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/CJBigJ/69%20chevy/20190305_201413_zps4krtdzuz.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/CJBigJ/media/69%20chevy/20190305_201413_zps4krtdzuz.jpg.html)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/CJBigJ/69%20chevy/20190305_201405_zpsvkcoxnlh.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/CJBigJ/media/69%20chevy/20190305_201405_zpsvkcoxnlh.jpg.html)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/CJBigJ/69%20chevy/20190305_201357_zpss2xuvwzg.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/CJBigJ/media/69%20chevy/20190305_201357_zpss2xuvwzg.jpg.html)

And this is now installed with ecm coolant temp and manifold heater.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd467/CJBigJ/69%20chevy/Screenshot_2017-08-19-14-30-37_zpsxnssomtp.png (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/CJBigJ/media/69%20chevy/Screenshot_2017-08-19-14-30-37_zpsxnssomtp.png.html)


01/06/19 edit updated
Currently installed
L6 250 stock head & block
Clifford 6=8 square bore intake
Clifford 6=8 exhaust headers down into a single 2" pipe
1984 chevy l6 ecm controlled ca emmissions distributor
Boyd welding 18 gal tank with aeromotive phantom 200 in tank fuel pump
91 Astro parts
* Chopped wire harness
* Ecm (stock)
* Tbi w/ tps - iac
* O2 sensor
* Coolant sensor
* Oil pressure sensor/gauge
* Knock control mod/knock Sesor
* Fuel pump relay

[Fast355]

Okay, So I am working on a GM L6 250 fairly stock. it has a GM HEI dizzy. lol
So, I have the TBI installed w adapter plate. it has a TPS - IACV - MAP all hooked up, I also have the o2 sensor installed, coolant temp switch, oil switch. Fuel Pump relayed... So here is the deal.
running all hooked up.. It don't. but will throw code 32. disconnect iac, tps, map. it runs, and is rich as crap! however if I run all connected on 1 injector it will barely start but will start... any body do one of these fuel only swaps? or is there a car that I can rip the dizzy from that will actually FIT my dizzy port that is esc?

Some of the california chevy trucks and vans around 1982-1984 had a EST distributor for the computer controlled carbs. Also you need to make sure you have a 4.3 prom chip, netres pack and injectors to start with.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

when I pulled the first one, the base shaft and gear was appx 1/4 too wide to even fit into the dizzy which is why I ask... on another note. currently it has a new map and a new iac v. it started up immiadiatly after sitting for a few hours but stayed at 500 rpm's. ill pull the cover off the ecu to see what it has.

[1project2many]

It sounds like the combintaion may be getting too much fuel. The injectors and calibration should be from a similarly sized engine.

Without the timing control you're missing half the benefit of an ecm. What year 250 do you have? Are you using a GM HEI or aftermarket? Could you install a 7 pin ESC module instead of the 4 pin version?

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

The donor vehicle was the 1991 chevy astro van 4.3l V6 for the ecu tbi harness sensors. my dizzy is a big cap GM HEI also pulled from another car years ago and it works a LOT better than the old points it had on there. and the 250 I believe is from a early 75 chevy nova (non intergral head)

[dave w]

The CALIFORNIA EMISSION vehicles listed below with a 4.1 / 250 engine should have the 7 pin HEI / WITHOUT VACUUM ADVANCE distributor. AC Delco part # 88864755 or A1 Cardone part # 30-1677 ( https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaz-30-1677 ).

dave w


CHEVROLET C10 PICKUP 1983-1984
CHEVROLET C20 PICKUP 1983-1986
CHEVROLET C30 PICKUP 1985-1986
CHEVROLET C50 1985-1986
CHEVROLET C60 1985-1986
CHEVROLET G10 1983-1984
CHEVROLET G20 1983-1984
CHEVROLET G30 1983-1984
CHEVROLET K10 PICKUP 1983-1984
CHEVROLET K20 PICKUP 1985-1986
CHEVROLET K30 PICKUP 1985-1986
CHEVROLET P20 1985-1986
CHEVROLET P30 1985-1986
CHEVROLET P40 1985-1986
GMC C1500 PICKUP 1983-1984
GMC C2500 PICKUP 1983-1986
GMC C3500 PICKUP 1985-1986
GMC C5000 1985-1986
GMC C6000 1985-1986
GMC G1500 1983-1984
GMC G2500 1983-1984
GMC G3500 1983-1984
GMC K1500 PICKUP 1983-1984
GMC K2500 PICKUP 1985-1986
GMC K3500 1985-1986
GMC P2500 1985-1986
GMC P3500 1985-1986
GMC P4500 1985-1986

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Okay. So ive searched a boat load for that distributor... With one on back order to no end... Does any body have a suggestion of a used one i could buy or a place to send mine to be re designed to work properly?

[dave w]

Okay. So ive searched a boat load for that distributor... With one on back order to no end... Does any body have a suggestion of a used one i could buy or a place to send mine to be re designed to work properly?

I was able to locate and purchase a used 1983 / 84 C-10 I-6 HEI distributor (without vacuum advance) from a CALIFORNIA salvage yard.

dave w

[Eds]

I just looked at RockAuto and they show the AC Delco unit p/n 88864755 available.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1984,c10+pickup,4.1l+250cid+l6,1030903,i gnition,distributor,7108

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

When/where. Ive searched pnp rancho, sacramento, roseville. To no avail

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

I just looked at RockAuto and they show the AC Delco unit p/n 88864755 available.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1984,c10+pickup,4.1l+250cid+l6,1030903,i gnition,distributor,7108

Yep. Try the order button. It gets removed from cart.


Ohh wait!!! Its avail now!!! Wth. Thank you!!!


... And now i get the email that says..

We are sorry to tell you our inventory records were incorrect and some items you ordered are out of stock

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

For rockauto thats been the case every time on that part only. Never had an issue with any other part from them yet.

Autozone says same orielly same napa same

[dave w]

When/where. Ive searched pnp rancho, sacramento, roseville. To no availDorris Auto Wreckers Hayward CA, 12/30/15

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Yup. No luck there.

[dave w]

Try DAVE's small-body HEI's (someone else with the same name Dave) : http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/

He's helped me with older Jeep points distributors to EFI conversions.

dave w

[Eds]

Try these guys. They list a 1984 c10 distributor but not clear if with or without vacuum advance.

http://search6969.used-auto-parts.biz/cgi-bin/search.cgi

[lionelhutz]

Lock the mechanical advance and either replace the vacuum advance with a lockout plate or just don't connect it. Then, replace the 4-pin module with a 7-pin and you're good to go.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Holy Hell!!! by gawd I think summit finally got it in! just got off the phone with them and they said its on its way!

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Also you need to make sure you have a 4.3 prom chip, netres pack and injectors to start with.

Okay.. Im not sure exactly what you mean there... I pulled the entire rig from a 91 astro van minus the dizzy that is coming

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Okay! So I got my bran spankin new dizzy from summit. Put some new fuel in the new tank. Cranked over. Its is alive!!!! Still slightly rich. Vac is at apps 12-13 " hg.what is idle supposed to sit at timing wise w spout thing unplugged?

Okay so ive got it set at 4° btdc. Running slightly rich. Still have to wire in that thing that the knock sensor is wired into power wise i think. The vac is sitting at 13 ish vac. Its running pretty darn well. Have to redo the tbi unit as its leaking a little. I hear this high pitched wine in the engine bay. Still need to plug the vac line from the distributor with a cap as its got a hose with screw driver in it at the moment. Think i need a thicker gasket under the carb adapter plate so i can better fit hoses and such on the tbi unit. There was another vac unit in the loom that has some 3 inlet outlet pipes. Not sure if those are needed or not to boost vac at idle or if my idle issue is purely a leak... Let me know and ill keep posted as i go along.


Ohh... My oil pressure light is on... Did i hook up wrong wire?

And how do i tell what my coolant temp is now? Had a mechanical sender....

Hmm. Looks like i may have to set the timing at 0* if im reading this right.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Okay, so i now have the knock sensor and esc installed. Only found 2 vac leaks. Fixed both. Fixed fuel leak at the injector. Its still slightly rich i think. Vac is at 15 cold down to 13 idle hot.... It also has a minor sputter at idle. It is running way better though. However i fear i may have to have the engine reworked. Also does any body have the lower thermostat housing with wet sensor hole?

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

So.. Any body here have a 68-72 c10 with a l6 250(or 30 -92) tbi setup? Id love to see some pics with how you did your wiring...

[53 Catalina 292]

If you have the internals of a 7 wire big base distributor available, it is physically possible to mount them in the big base HEI 250 distributor. I did it last week, but haven't run it. It involved notching the base for the 4 wire harness, drilling mounting holes for the wider spacing of the ignition module - I gently used the mounting screws as taps - and another hole for a screw to replace the locating split pin for the cage (?) the pickup coil sits in. I let the "memory" of the pickup coil wires be my guide as to where that hole needed to be, (doesn't seem to be critical) and cut 3/16" brake tubing to space up from the distributor base to the locating hole of the cage (?) - I don't know what to call it - the first piece you put back on, after you've had it all apart. I did the same screw/ spacer arrangement for the mounting/grounding tab for the 4 wire harness just inside the distributor base. The three wire harness looks after itself. I put it in its notch in the base first, and worked from there. This leaves a gap where the vacuum advance went through the base, which I contemplate sealing with foil tape once the cap is on. I think it could work, if you haven't found the right one.

[53 Catalina 292]

Oops, sorry for all that blather, I missed your latest five posts somehow. Glad to see that you're making headway. What TBI system did you start with? I'm wanting to TBI my 69 292.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well its a the wire harness and all components are out of a 91 astro van. (ecu, sensors, wire harness, tbi) im still running thr old 1 bbl intake so i picked up a adapter plate online from 1bbl to gm tbi. The dizzy took almost 3 months to order factory but im glad i did. It is not modified at all. Mainly cause i wanted to get the wiring sorted out first. I think i need to do some eprom or something for proper tuning. As the astrovan is a 4.3 and mine is 4.1. However i think yours would probably be pretty much perfect for it?

[53 Catalina 292]

I think the 4.3 is 262 c.i., so your system has the capacity to fuel an engine 12 cubic inches bigger than the 250. Sounds close enough to me, in my vast ignorance. And the 305 c.i. system I have can supply 13 cubic inches bigger than my 292 (although mine is bored .060, giving a total of 298 or 299, I think - haven't done the math.) Also sounds close enough to me, in my vast ignorance. Your PROM, being from a 6 cylinder, seems to be what I would need to replace my 8 cylinder one with, though I don't even know if the PROM cares how many cylinders it's running, maybe just the displacement matters to it, and the distributor reports the number of cylinders. Know anything about that? Is there a number on your PROM that you can see, without much trouble?

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Hmm. Yea. Kinda feel retarded making that previous statement. But. Thats why im here as well. So as for the prom im not sure. But i will look at it when i get home Wednesday. Its still very accessible. (Uts the removable chip right? Lol)

[53 Catalina 292]

Hey, just being ignorant, that is, not in possession of all the facts, doesn't mean we're stupid, does it? Sir Winston Churchill, British Prime Minister, said to America, prior to its entry into World War II, "Give us the tools, and we'll finish the job." The tool we need is accurate pertinent information, which I'm confident the EFI GearHeads have. Somewhere. The answer to the question, "How do you eat an elephant?" being "One bite at a time.", I guess we make progress (learn) one question at a time. The PROM (for Programmable Read Only Memory, I believe) chip is the removable chip inside the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) a.k.a. ECM (Electronic etc.) ECU (...Unit) and "the aluminum box in a hard to access location inside the car that all the wires plug into." And I think when I read about "Calpak" it means the PROM. I welcome correction and clarification.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Awesome. Yea the ecm has not been mounted yet so it will be easy to get to. Ill post that later today.

[53 Catalina 292]

Great, thanks - but enough about me. Or "Moi", as Miss Piggy puts it. Do you have a wiring diagram for the donor 91 Astro, to help you answer your wiring questions? (I'm thinking about your inquiry about anyone having pictures of their wiring installation on a 250.) No responses to that request, yet? I'm wondering if there is enough similarity between the harnesses of your 91 Astro donor and my 89 Caprice donor to be of any use. Manufacturers have been known to goof up and do things the same way for a couple of years.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

I do not have a book per say. but I do have the downloaded wiring diagrams for the 91 Chev Astro 4.3l auto. I do not know if the oil press switch is looking for the same pressure as what my l6 original pump puts out.
Also the prom is Delco AUMJ 1278 underneath it has
JT8(G)/J6/P
LFIVN960
AE03

[53 Catalina 292]

Thanks for the information - that's a lot to put on a small part. I think oil pressure should be about the same for the 250 and the 4.3. So oil light on at idle causes can be, besides actual low oil pressure from engine wear - oil pressure not getting to switch, due to passage obstruction, switch failure, oil too thin from gas dilution, and idle speed too low. Any of those possible? Does the light go out as engine speed increases? Are the valves noisy?

[ony]

it depends on what oil I use ,my 4.3 has 20-35 psi at idle .

[53 Catalina 292]

Sounds healthy. I'm told that the pressure switches for dash lights turn the lights on below 7 p.s.i. Does yours have the factory gauge setup?

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well. The old sensor came on when oil got too low (valve cover leak I have not been able to seal yet. Prolly going to replace the cover.) I do not know if this sensor is any good so I'll probably replace it. My engine w/o fan is really quiet compared to when my dad had it running. Haha

Although thinking about it the oil pressure switch that I pulled from the Chevy Astro van appeared to have a piece of plastic tube snapped off inside of it I might go pick another one up for $20

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Sounds healthy. I'm told that the pressure switches for dash lights turn the lights on below 7 p.s.i. Does yours have the factory gauge setup?

Nope. Just came w dummy light

[ony]

I have a electric dash gauge [stock] . them sender units may operate at different psi I don't no.

[53 Catalina 292]

r.e.c.enthusiasts - Maybe, instead of spending $20. on a new oil pressure switch, you could try walking into the parts store with a straight face and asking if you could just borrow one for a couple of hours. Sometimes the guys like to kid around. Good luck with that. My mental image of the engine end of the perfect oil pressure switch doesn't have any snapped off plastic tube, so you may be on to something. I've had a few of those "Oh, yeah, now that I think of it..." moments. Sometimes I say, "I knew that! I did!" Is the oil pressure gauge involved in the TBI or ignition wiring? Just thinking that if you had a mind to put a gauge in someday, and it's not wired into the TBI or ignition controls, this could be a good time. I know one Chevy system in a previous century would cut power to the fuel pump if the oil pressure was inadequate. Three terminals on those switches, I think. How many on the Astro switch?

[ony]

it depends on what year and model if it is hooked to the fuel system.i think you can bypass all that if you no how.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well... Its the 3 wire pressure switch from the 91 vin z astro van and it is wired in with the fuel pump. The truck does start and run. The oil light stays on full time though

[ony]

that switch is proble for a gauge,

[53 Catalina 292]

That would be great, to replace the switch and find out you don't have an oil pressure problem. Did the donor Astro have a gauge?

[53 Catalina 292]

I just checked Rock Auto's listings - not infallible, but a great encyclopedia, and for the 91 Astro, they list only switches for gauges, suggesting the conclusion that all 91 Astros were gauge equipped. This presents a small problem. ony's suggestion of bypassing the oil pressure switch's control of the fuel pump sounds good to me. If that is workable, a one-wire oil pressure switch should operate the light. At least, that's how they did it in the salad days of the 250. I think the 250 switch was normally closed, completing the ground circuit, putting the light on, and when pressure came up, it opened, leaving/turning the light off. I'll check other listings and, ahem, report my findings.

[53 Catalina 292]

Herewith, ahem, I am pleased to report my findings: Under 1989 Caprice, with dash light, I find Airtex/Wells part no. 5G7 and Standard part no. PS212T, each using 3 wires, and each way under $10. before shipping. I chose the one with the small, long base, remembering that the hole in the block of my 292 is deep in a recess below the side cover. As long as your connecter plugs into it, you should be in business. If you check Rock Auto, under 89 Caprice, Electrical, Switches and relays, you can pull up pictures to see if your plug matches.

[53 Catalina 292]

Did you try replacing the oil pressure switch with one calibrated , if that's the fancy word I want, for a light instead of a gauge? And I'm thinking that you will need the temp gauge sender calibrated for a light, too. Is there a reason you don't want to use the original location in the cylinder head for the temp sender? Maybe you want one location for the light and one for a switch for an electric cooling fan? (Good plan, in my view.)
Other than the manifold adapter and the distributor, which you've posted about, what were the other issues you ran into before getting the TBI system running? I'm hoping to find an Astro/Safari or other 4.3 donor for the PCM, or maybe just the PROM, to run my Caprice system for my conversion. Johnny Cash would be so proud. But 4.3s of that vintage are few and far between hereabouts. There's one I see nearby, but it's still in service, so if I were to appropriate the PCM, I figure the guy would miss it sooner or later. (Comedians everywhere looking for work, and I'm trying to be funny. Shame on me.)

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Okay, so as to what one of the guys said before. Its about time I upgrade the gauges any rate, so. I'm gonnna order a new bezel when I save up for it. But first thing is replacing my lower thermostat housing so I can relocate the coolant temp switch to the housing and install a coolant temp probe for the gauge in the head. Its up and running right now but I need to wire in the c.e.l. To a place on my dash somewhere before I start driving it. And I need to tune the chip as well.

as for your question for original location. Its right over the exhaust manifold currently. And I think it would be better suited at the front of the engine.

[53 Catalina 292]

There was a balloon in one of your posts, from Fast 355, saying you need the 4.3 injectors, PROM chip and netres pack. You didn't know what he meant, (wish I did), but you already had the 4.3 injectors and PROM chip. I don't know if the reason you need the 4.3 PROM is because of number of cylinders or engine size, or both. Did you ever find out what netres pack means?
I just saw the pictures you posted - late 60s Chevy pickup? Them was purty thangs. Or maybe I just think so because they were new when I was young.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

I believe i do have the 4.3 injectors(size of engine/injectors closest match i believe) same for the p-rom. But i still dont know whatthe netres pack is... And yes 69 chevy c10 my dad handed down to me. I helped him rebuild that engine a few times. I also remember the choke fouling up many o camping trips. And he would find a way to make it work lol. But when i got it. I found plenty of things he did that were no good and i had to repair n replace. Lol. This truck is fond memories for me. Its never gonna go anywhere till i die and hopefully it will go to my kids.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

After a short search i found on this site netres is the limp home mode for the engine.. This p-rom and netres pack and wire harness and sensors all came off a 91 astro van v6 4.3l. Now i just need to program the p-rom for the right 4.1l engine.

[53 Catalina 292]

Nice to have a vehicle with happy family memories - who'd guess that the nuisance of having choke trouble on a camping trip would trigger good memories decades later? Kind of shows to go ya not to sweat the small stuff. I have a 91 Cutlass Cruiser handed down to me by my folks, now gone to be with the Lord, that I'm occasionally working at getting back in shape. Thanks for the research and info about netres pack. Is that built into the PCM, do you think, or a separate module? The need for programming surprises me, the size of the engine fed by your donor system and your engine size being so close. In my ignorance, I wonder if substituting one injector from a 2.8 or 2.5 TBI would lean the idle mix, and still give you enough at wide open throttle. If the computer just regulates pulse width, and the injector nozzle flows less, hmmm. Nah, too simple - couldn't possibly work. Or could it?

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

I think the netres pack is the soldered chip next to the p-rom. As for the smaller injector i kinda like the idea of programming it better. But i will go look at the tbi units at the yard. But most of them have 1 bbl for the smaller units with same size injector

[53 Catalina 292]

Yeah, come to think of it, the 2.5 injector is sized to run a, well, 2.5 engine - would likely flow more than one injector of the 4.3. If a 2.8/173 has 2 injectors ( I don't know about that), one would maybe flow enough for 1.4 litres/86 c.i. So one 4.3 injector and one 2.8 injector only flow enough for 217 c.i., maybe not enough for the 250 at wide open throttle. So that line of thought seems to be at a dead end, which is OK, because it wasn't your favorite anyway. Now you don't have that excuse for another trip to the salvage yard. You'll have to come up with another one.
The soldered netres pack situation means I'd better hunt for a 4.3 PCM to start with.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well. Got the check engine light wired up and the diag switch. No codes present... but upon my neighborhood test drive at low rpm it seems fine. But if I put it under load it cuts out momentarily off and on....

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

I think I have to add the vss

[53 Catalina 292]

All right! You've got it mobile! That's a big step in the right direction. Don't be pushing those Mustangs around too bad at the stop lights.

[53 Catalina 292]

Get anywhere yet sorting the VSS and cutting out momentarily under load?

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Nope. Have not purchased it yet....

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Okay.... So i still have not purchased the vss. However. Ive got my fuel guage verified. (was working. Just not enough fuel which lead to another issue.) and its not shutting off. So ive taken it to put some fuel in. Its driving... But its a little off at take off.not enough go at a stop. Dont know bout hills or anything. No codes yet either!

[53 Catalina 292]

Great that you're at this stage. I'm chuckling at your fuel/fuel gauge situation. ("You're out of gas, man," it's saying, and you're thinking, "What's wrong with this dumb gauge?") Nobody else ever has problems like that, least of all me, you know. Rrright! Maybe the initial timing could be advanced, a couple of degrees at a time, to address the take off concern. No codes is usually a good thing, but sometimes you wish for one to tell you what's wrong. Some years/makes with cable driven speedometers mounted the VSS at the speedometer, others with electronic speedometers put the VSS in the trans where the speedo cable, formerly used, was installed. I don't know what 91 Astrofaris did, but a parts lookup in the Rock Auto website would be informative.

[53 Catalina 292]

I see in the Rock listings that the 91 Astro used what looks like the trans mounted VSS. I don't know what it reads inside the trans, but my first guess is that it's probably a rotor that clips onto the output shaft where the drive gear for the cable speedometer would be on your trans. Fairly straightforward, once the driveshaft is out, to remove the tail shaft housing and "reveal all." Might be a good time to add a transmission shop guy to your "support group." There's a catch term for that... oh yeah, your "network."

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

I'm chuckling at your fuel/fuel gauge situation. ("You're out of gas, man," it's saying, and you're thinking, "What's wrong with this dumb gauge?") Nobody else ever has problems like that, least of all me, you know. Rrright!.

Exactly!!! I was testing ohms and voltage drops every where i could!!! Lol. I knew i put 5 gal in. But. Ive no idea how many hours i ran it afterwards haha. And did not realize that i purchased the 21 gal tank no the 18. Lol. Lots of fuel to move that gauge

But i will recheck the timing today. Should be at 0 w the spout unplugged iirc

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well. I checked the timing. It was dead on 0° but something was rattling and bugging the crap out of me so i pulled the air cleaner off. Took the base to my garage and drilled the stupid heat riser rivets and removed that rattling p.o.s. took it for a test spin. Hmm seems to have more go from a stop sign. And that rattle is gone!

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Meh, decided to remove the original breather that came with it that was 13" and go with a 10" open breather so i can install a better and sturdy finned valve cover thats not leaking /warped and it is a bit taller than the one on there now so the smaller diameter gives me the right clearances and i can wipe out the oil leaks. :)

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well, today I took it for a ride to Lowes with my nephew and on the way there all was well (not that it was bad at all) then on the way back he accidentally kicked loose the park neutral switch. it has more power without it in park/neutral but it was missing information from the vss and threw a code for both vss as well as ignition timing control. So, VSS is on the way from JTR. now the question is I noticed the VSS is 2 wire. I also noticed the ecu only has a slot at A10 which is Brown wire. what does the other wire go to? power, ground, uhh? lol

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

On another note. Jtr has apparently had some setbacks... Company that made the vss for them went out of business a long while back. And the brother that made them after that passed on 3 weeks ago so it will be delayed a little while as he has all but one of the parts needed to make it. (The item is on the way to them)

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

and because I'm impatient... I also ordered a vss from summit racing...
250-4153
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rpc-250-4153

so we shall see.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Alright, so its been a while. I replaced the piston rings. ( long story but fixed oil leaks caused by Blow-By) I currently have everything installed minus the VSS. and as long as I keep it in "Park/neutral" no check engine light. but here is my issues.

1. at startup its perfect. even idles down very nicely.
2. if I quickly actuate the throttle it fires out the throttle body.
3. Driving when I try to give it a little gas I can feel it fall off then back on again
4. it ran good on my way to and from the muff shop. and good on the way to work. then on the way home it went blah. ( makes me think about the fuel tank and aeration) I am going to check fuel pressure but don't know exactly what it should be.
5. Is the Original 1bbl intake mani too restrictive for the gm 2 bbl TBI?????

and my vac is pulling right at the base of good. 18 inch lbs and I think I may need to replace the hydraulic lifters as well since after adjusting the lash I found that a couple got loose after 1 turn... but its quiet at the moment.

Ohh and side note... that vss from summit racing is a 8k pulse. that was not on the main page so I returned it. but I did finally get the one from the JTR guy. VERY nice construction.....

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well, i know its been a while. Ive had 2 inline pumps go hydro static lock on me. Now im ordering a aeromotive 200 in tank fuel pump and a new tank as mine from lmc truck was very flimsy in my opinion and it cracked (couple years old as well so...) But i also have a question. The vac signal on the tbi. Its sitting on the factory l6 250 1 bbl intake with an adapter. Would that small port to the 2 large ports cause some bad /low vac signals? Its not throwing a code but it makes me wonder. Would putting the clifford 6=8 intake exhaust improve those numbers? Im fairly certain it will improve everything else. But 1 thing at a time. ��

[Fast355]

Well, i know its been a while. Ive had 2 inline pumps go hydro static lock on me. Now im ordering a aeromotive 200 in tank fuel pump and a new tank as mine from lmc truck was very flimsy in my opinion and it cracked (couple years old as well so...) But i also have a question. The vac signal on the tbi. Its sitting on the factory l6 250 1 bbl intake with an adapter. Would that small port to the 2 large ports cause some bad /low vac signals? Its not throwing a code but it makes me wonder. Would putting the clifford 6=8 intake exhaust improve those numbers? Im fairly certain it will improve everything else. But 1 thing at a time. 

Assuming you are talking about a 4bbl intake with an TBI to 4bbl adapter plate. It would work MUCH better than the OEM monojet intake. I saw a dyno test with a 2bbl carb and 1 barrel intake on a Ford 300 I6 where to Ford engine lost power with the 2bbl car and 1 bbl intake. The swapped a 4 bbl intake onto it and kept the 2bbl carb on an adapter and gained power everywhere.

Also keep in mind injector flow rates correspond with horsepower more than CID. I swapped an older P-van 292 to TBI for a friend of mine that owned a roach coach with one years ago. Ended up using a 2.8 TBI unit from a S10. The 292 was 115 HP the way it rolled out of GM. The 2.8 was 120 hp. The 4.3 is 160-190 depending on Z or B vin in the Astro/Safari. No matter which way you do it the chip needs to be heavily reworked. The I6 requires much more timing than the swirl ports on the V6/V8. I would try bringing the timing up to about 10-12° with the connector unplugged. Should give about 30-32° total advance at WOT and more like 48-52° at 3,000 rpm free reving unloaded. The smaller throttle bores and smaller injectors of the 2.8 TBI were a better match for the Anemic 292 I6. Putting a V6/V8 TBI unit on a stock I6 is like putting a 750 double pumper on a stock 305.

You need to get an ALDL cable to Datalog, TunerProRT and a convert am ECM to a flash chip along with a Chip Burner from Moates.net. I really like datalogging with WinALDL for the old 160 baud rate ECMs. My steps to making it run right would be as follows once you are able to datalog and burn chips. Find the OEM timing curves for a factory 250 distributor. Convert the specs for the vacuum advance from vacuum specs to manifold pressure. The centrifical advance should be straight foward. Whatever the OEM base timing is gets programmed in the lowest RPM 100 kpa table cell. Then add the centrifical advance to that number and fill in the various rpm values. At the point interpolate the values between what you know. Vacuum advance comes next. Will say 0 degrees at 5 in/hg and say 10 degrees at 12 in/hg. Then fill in those values to the table. Remember that Vacuum is Baro minus MAP KPA. At sea level 100.4 KPa is roughly 30 in/hg manifold pressure.
If you read 18 in/hg on a vacuum gauge that is a manifold pressure of about 12 in/hg which IIRC is in the 40-45 kpa range. From there measure the fuel pressure and calculate the injector flow rate and corresponding BPWC for your 250. Once those changes are made you will need to datalog and record the BLM values. The BLM values can then be used to adjust the VE tables. The I6 is going to also want ALOT of AE fuel added to the TPS and MAP AE fuel tables. I would probably double what is there for the stock V6 as a starting point for the I6. Better to have the engine blow a little black smoke than have it shot a fireball out of the TBI.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Ahh yes. My apologies. As of right now its a factory 1 bbl intake with an adapter to a gm tbi. It idles quite nicely and drives okay but gutless. I just ordered a clifford ram flow 6=8 4bbl intake and truck headers And the tank setup today. Soon i will be able to get it back on the road! Although i am curious. When i hook up the vss i wonder if not having a egr would cause more issues. Side note. The guy at clifford says it does not run well on their intake...

[Fast355]

Ahh yes. My apologies. As of right now its a factory 1 bbl intake with an adapter to a gm tbi. It idles quite nicely and drives okay but gutless. I just ordered a clifford ram flow 6=8 4bbl intake and truck headers And the tank setup today. Soon i will be able to get it back on the road! Although i am curious. When i hook up the vss i wonder if not having a egr would cause more issues. Side note. The guy at clifford says it does not run well on their intake...

The TBI? If anything a properly dialed in TBI will always run better than a carb on the same manifold. EGR should be disabled in the tuning or else it will cause issues.

[tmoble]

Dave is the man. He can make anything into anything. Turn any distributor into an HEI with any module. Best quality stuff available.

This post was in reference to Dave Ray at DavessmallbodyHEIs. I didn't notice the date on the post I was replying to.

[dave w]

Dave is the man. He can make anything into anything. Turn any distributor into an HEI with any module. Best quality stuff available.

This post was in reference to Dave Ray at DavessmallbodyHEIs. I didn't notice the date on the post I was replying to.

Link to Dave's Small Body HEI http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/

dave w

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Huh... Interesting. Thank you but im past that at this point. Already have a big cap comp controlled new dist from summit or rock auto. But the guys here guided me to it and it works as its supposed to. Right now im just waiting on my new boyd welding baffled rear tank with aeromotive phantom 200 baffled in tank fuel pump. After i double check to make sure that fixed my up hill battles i will then try out my bran new 6=8 intake and exhaust from clifford.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

The TBI? If anything a properly dialed in TBI will always run better than a carb on the same manifold. EGR should be disabled in the tuning or else it will cause issues.

Yea. I have to buy some gear. Was kinda hoping i could find a person around here (100 miles or so) to guide me. Im pretty good with computers but seeing as i just dropped 2g on the pump tank and manifold setup. Kind of slim on budget.

[tmoble]

thx Dave. You ever worked with Dave? Nice stuff he builds. Hard to find a real old-style craftsman these days.

[tmoble]

dupl

[lionelhutz]

At first I though the comments were about Dave W here on this site. He posts a LOT of help here and has also posted some cool wiring harness pictures and 3D CAD models hinting at having some real skill. I would recommend anyone who needs help with EFI work, especially ODBI that hardly anyone does well anymore, contacts him.


I wouldn't have anything to do with Dave Ray or recommend him for anything due to the way he acts on any of the forums that have yet to ban him for soliciting business without paying to be a vendor.

[tmoble]

Yes, I've had to ban Dave off the Chevelles site several times over the years. Not for vending but for his abrasive online persona. We've called him "my way or the highway Dave". Too bad, he's nothing like that in real life. Too bad again, he actually has lots to contribute. Too bad (3), he's a good writer and can get his point across very well. In any case, his work is faultless. A true craftsman who knows exactly what he is doing. Also handy, he knows where all the bodies are buried in the performance ignition game. There's a lot of them.

On the Chevelles site I'm known as Tom Mobley, which also happens to be my real name. Mod/admin there since 1998. jeeze I'm getting old.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Lol. Did not have a problem with that. Was just stating i was past that part. Right now im debating buying the moates apu1 auto program package. Any body work with it? What additional hardware do i need to work with my current setup? Will probably buy their chips also for programmability.

Note i chopped my obd1 harness and made a cel/ diagnostics switch.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well. Now i have my boyd welding tank installed w the phantom 200 in tank fuel pump. Had a minor leak at the drain plug. Tightened it up some yesterday. Sofar no leak this morning. Drove it locally. Not bad at all. Still working on ideas for placement of filler neck location. So thats sitting w the plastic cover still. Just ordered a lower thermostat housing to plumb the clifford ram flow 6=8 intake coolant heat source. As well as have a proper wet temp spot for ecm. Which will give me back my gauge.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well. Tank is awesome. Still have not plumbed the fuel filler neck to the side marker. But, looking for ideas for throttle cable for the tbi to the clifford ram flow intake. Pics or links would be great or pm me for a number. Thanks!

[tmoble]

Well. Tank is awesome. Still have not plumbed the fuel filler neck to the side marker. But, looking for ideas for throttle cable for the tbi to the clifford ram flow intake. Pics or links would be great or pm me for a number. Thanks!

You can find a stock cable like off a Camaro or something. The tubular housing can be pulled out of the end piece on either end. The little end on the throttle end can be clipped off and the cable and housing trimmed to whatever you need.

Tom

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well. I used a pice of angle iron with the little square and attached it to the carb.... Lol ut works. Got the exhaust added. Think the new flow has made it where i need to adjust the timing. Its still at 0 tdc plug disconnected. But gonna try to drive it home. Will post more soon

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well kinda gutless up till 2k rpm but goes strong up past 3500.55 mph is quiet and smooth but not sure bout up hill.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Okay. For a current hardware update

Currently installed
L6 250 stock head & block
Clifford 6=8 square bore intake
Clifford 6=8 exhaust headers down into a single 2" pipe
1984 chevy l6 ecm controlled ca emmissions distributor
Boyd welding 18 gal tank with aeromotive phantom 200 in tank fuel pump
91 Astro parts
* Chopped wire harness
* Ecm (stock)
* Tbi w/ tps - iac
* O2 sensor
* Coolant sensor
* Oil pressure sensor/gauge
* Knock control mod/knock Sesor
* Fuel pump relay

[tmoble]

Okay. For a current hardware update

Currently installed
L6 250 stock head & block
Clifford 6=8 square bore intake
Clifford 6=8 exhaust headers down into a single 2" pipe
1984 chevy l6 ecm controlled ca emmissions distributor
Boyd welding 18 gal tank with aeromotive phantom 200 in tank fuel pump
91 Astro parts
* Chopped wire harness
* Ecm (stock)
* Tbi w/ tps - iac
* O2 sensor
* Coolant sensor
* Oil pressure sensor/gauge
* Knock control mod/knock Sesor
* Fuel pump relay

I'm impressed by your progress. using the stock ECM is a hard way to go. keep hacking, you'll get it straightened out. It should have good torque right off idle. Why do you have the timing so retarded? try moving it up to 10-12 initial without ECM connection.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well i was sticking to the stock tbi setup till i got close to what i want. So i just put it at 10 much better. I think maybe 11 or 12 could be better but i want to see hpw it does on hwy. I still need to move the fuel line as its now way to close to the exhaust. And still need to install the coolant to the intake manifold. Getting much happier with it though. Just wish i could get the ecm tuned for the l6. But to buy the hardware and then data log it and then burnin chips.. Being that i dont know if ill get a check any time soon.... Kinda heartache. Lol

[tmoble]

Well i was sticking to the stock tbi setup till i got close to what i want. So i just put it at 10 much better. I think maybe 11 or 12 could be better but i want to see hpw it does on hwy. I still need to move the fuel line as its now way to close to the exhaust. And still need to install the coolant to the intake manifold. Getting much happier with it though. Just wish i could get the ecm tuned for the l6. But to buy the hardware and then data log it and then burnin chips.. Being that i dont know if ill get a check any time soon.... Kinda heartache. Lol

So you haven't sent the ECM off to one of those tuner guy that specialize in getting conversions running? Practically a miracle it even runs at all. Don't be afraid to bump the timing more. You'll hear it pinging if it's too much. Do you have the ESC spark retard hooked up?

Props to you

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Do you have the ESC spark retard hooked up?


Yes,
The knock control is hooked up. Its fully controlled by the computers. Lol

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well, my drive to work at currently 10° it has much better take off. Still not quite what i am striving for but close. Highway speeds seem more than capable. No longer starving for air and engine wine is quiet now @ 72 mph. Gonna bump it up to 11 tonight and try again tomorrow.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Bumped it up to 12° but taking the tools needed to adjust just in case i need to drop it down tomorrow.

[stew86MCSS396]

Idk if it's worth mentioning ASYNC firing. I'll let the gurus comment or you can try searching for relevance.

[tmoble]

Bumped it up to 12° but taking the tools needed to adjust just in case i need to drop it down tomorrow.


Wrong way. Go to 14 and be ready to go to 16. If the ESC is working you shouldn't get any pinging.

[r.e.c.enthusiasts]

Well, Its been a long while and I have not done anything. But with the,
Clifford Square bore intake
Clifford 6 = 8 Exhaust manifold
91 Chevy Astro van ECU (still un edited) and Chopped Wire Harness
91 TBI and new sensors in the TBI unit
91 Astro van oil pressure electronic gauge sensor connected to my dummy light which is now a varying light glow. lol
84 ECU controlled L6 HEI style Dizzy
Boyd Welding Tank with the Phantom 200 in tank fuel pump.

I have gone camping quite a few times, driving couple hundred miles at a time.

At this point I have had to slow down. Married and kids take priority. but I am looking to have the cab torn down and body rot repaired as well as having the engine rebuilt.
So on that note. Any body in the area know of a good old body welder? and any body suggest a good engine rebuilder?