400FWHP TBI build attempt thread

[Gojira94]

1992 C1500 extended cab I picked up for $450.00. Bad 700R4, body damage in the front right corner, GT4 (3.73) rear. Going hydraulic roller. EBL Flash acquired, working on first step with VE tables for (hopefully) start and first run once it's all put together with the upgrades. Rebuilt 700R4 going back in tomorrow, then figuring out why I'm getting the code 23 and doing some driving and tweaking the tune for more experience with EBL Flash prior to buildup. I've researched what I want to do since June and have found a great deal of info along the way, thanks to the dedication of the community. Sean at SPR and Bob at Dynamic EFI have been great to deal with. Brian H's site was the first I found on the subject of TBI performance and has been a great help as well. Tomorrow, transmission. Then the fun begins. Tomorrow I'll post up my first stab at putting together VE tables for all these mods to come. May be good for laughs, might be in the ballpark.

[Gojira94]

Well, the line breaks didn't make it into the post. replaced with screenshot.

[Gojira94]

Here are the VE tables I came up with as a starting point. I used a calculator to generate some fairly sparse data points and then filled in and shaped them in TunerPro. They may be total crap, I'm not sure. The transition from low to high is smooth and the highest VE is in the area where the engine should make the most torque efficiently.

[Gojira94]

I'm needing some guidance with what to input for BPC calculation in EBL Flash. I originally calculated using the TBI Fueling page at dynamicefi.com before getting started. I reckoned a hair under the example used on the site and came up with 80# injectors at 22-23psi, 85% duty cycle. I realize that's the point at which it would need max fuel for theoretical max HP at 5500-5700RPM and not where the engine will be running 95% of the time. I talked to Sean at SPR when I ordered the TBI, told him my mods/ goals/ expected HP needed to support, that I'd be using an Aeromotive 13301 VRFPR and would need a blockoff plate. He said BBC injectors are not the way to go, just dial up the pressure on the 60.5# injectors. Using the BPC calculator, I get 39psi needed to support that peak HP with 60.5#s. This seems like an easy place to completely blow the tune if BPC is wrong from pressure and flow rates way off. So my questions are 1) How much pressure can the 5235206 injectors handle? 2) If they can handle 39psi, I'm wondering where to set the base pressure on the regulator with the 20-65# spring? 3) Would a minimum of 20# be too much and I should be looking for a spring more like 15-45psi that fits the 13301? Thanks

[Gojira94]

I think I've answered my own questions about the pressure. 39-40psi will be ok, EBL's BPC tables will handle it. Base pressure on the 20-60# spring needs to be set at 39-40psi with the vacuum nipple open to air. Then connect it and let vacuum handle the pressure drop at idle, with corresponding BPC vs. VAC table values. I expect a touch over 15" Hg at commanded idle speeds with IAC vs. temp at normal operating temps. Next question is why am I missing the BST-BPC vs Boost for a 1-bar MAP?? I see 4 tables each for 2-bar and 3-bar but none for 1-bar. I looked in the option words and as expected none of the 2 or 3-bar words are set, and apparently I didn't miss turning on the default of 1-bar MAP. So, if using a 1-bar MAP, just don't worry about the BST-BPC vs Boost? I think this is pretty much the last thing for the base starter tune. Again, any feedback or criticism of anything I've posted so far with any of this is appreciated.

[Fast355]

Personally I wpuld run the big block injectors at that power level. I have run the 61s as high as 50 psi but the opening and closing times start to get too long for higher rpm use.

[Gojira94]

Personally I wpuld run the big block injectors at that power level. I have run the 61s as high as 50 psi but the opening and closing times start to get too long for higher rpm use. Thanks for the input. When you say higher RPMs, how high? I'm planning to spin no higher than 5500, limiter set at 5750. I'm feeling like I should have insisted on BBC injectors. I think I'd have fewer concerns and questions.

[Fast355]

Thanks for the input. When you say higher RPMs, how high? I'm planning to spin no higher than 5500, limiter set at 5750. I'm feeling like I should have insisted on BBC injectors. I think I'd have fewer concerns and questions.You are going to have a hard time making 400 hp under 6,000 rpm on a 350 that mild.Pulsewidth to stay under 80% duty cycle goes from 5msec at 5,000 to 4 msec at 6,000. If it takes 500 usec to open the injector and another 250 usec to close you are looking at needing an injector that can get the fuel volume necessary in 3.25 msec. Big injectors are a must for a high hp TBI.

[dave w]

You are going to have a hard time making 400 hp under 6,000 rpm on a 350 that mild.Pulsewidth to stay under 80% duty cycle goes from 5msec at 5,000 to 4 msec at 6,000. If it takes 500 usec to open the injector and another 250 usec to close you are looking at needing an injector that can get the fuel volume necessary in 3.25 msec. Big injectors are a must for a high hp TBI. I agree with Fast355 on the using Big injectors to make 400 hp. My own personal best with a SBC 5.7 Liter TBI chassis dyno pull was 330 Rear Wheel HP using 454 TBI injectors part #5235231 at 15 PSI. I used Vortec heads, EFI roller camshaft (similar to a Comp Cams 268 grind), Vortec 4 barrel aftermarket intake with a TBI adapter plate, headers, 9.2:1 CR, 0.045" Quench, and the 16197427 PCM... I admit there was a slight trade off in the tune, the big injectors were on the rich side at idle at 15 psi... The 16197427 has near idle fuel and spark tables, very helpful for idle tuning! The 16197427 has off idle fuel and spark tables, very helpful for MAX performance tuning! ... The EBL system does not have separate near idle / off idle fuel and spark tables, I wish it did... dave w

[Fast355]

I agree with Fast355 on the using Big injectors to make 400 hp. My own personal best with a SBC 5.7 Liter TBI chassis dyno pull was 330 Rear Wheel HP using 454 TBI injectors part #5235231 at 15 PSI. I used Vortec heads, EFI roller camshaft (similar to a Comp Cams 268 grind), Vortec 4 barrel aftermarket intake with a TBI adapter plate, headers, 9.2:1 CR, 0.045" Quench, and the 16197427 PCM... I admit there was a slight trade off in the tune, the big injectors were on the rich side at idle at 15 psi... The 16197427 has near idle fuel and spark tables, very helpful for idle tuning! The 16197427 has off idle fuel and spark tables, very helpful for MAX performance tuning! ... The EBL system does not have separate near idle / off idle fuel and spark tables, I wish it did... dave wI have never once used seperate VE table or Spark values at idle. I found them an annoyance. Even on my 0411 both idle tables and the main table have the same values.

[dave w]

I have never once used seperate VE table or Spark values at idle. I found them an annoyance. Even on my 0411 both idle tables and the main table have the same values. I completely agree, separate VE and Spark tables are an annoyance. I was very annoyed with the hours and hours of time I spent writing an excel spreadsheet that would sort / filter / average the separate tables from the data log .csv file. I also find waiting on the spreadsheet to finish processing annoying. dave w

[Gojira94]

You are going to have a hard time making 400 hp under 6,000 rpm on a 350 that mild.Pulsewidth to stay under 80% duty cycle goes from 5msec at 5,000 to 4 msec at 6,000. If it takes 500 usec to open the injector and another 250 usec to close you are looking at needing an injector that can get the fuel volume necessary in 3.25 msec. Big injectors are a must for a high hp TBI.Thanks- that's the math I needed to know that I need to learn. I'll touch base with Sean at SPR and swap out injectors. I may not hit 400FW but it'll come pretty damn close by 5700 if nothing scatters. I've studied and planned this build for 6 months. Fueling and tuning are the 2 biggest variables for success with my build and I know it. I had wanted to keep the stock TBI intake and open the bores but I'm headed toward the Holley 300-49 since it doesn't need to be bored to accept a 46mm TB and it has the center bolt holes at the correct angle for the early pattern SBC heads I'm using. Slotting the stock TBI centers was starting to look ugly for lack of room there without hitting the walls.

[Gojira94]

Right now I'm looking at how to resolve the code 23 it's throwing in EBL, on a truck with no IAT/MAT sensor. The word/ bit aren't set for that in the base bin (ebl_f_2010) and I'm not sure why I'm getting it. I wanted to square everything away and fine tune the stock setup for practice VE learns, etc. before tearing into it. Hoping to start tearing it down later this week.

[Gojira94]

I reflashed banks 0 and 1 with the 2010 and 2011 bins. Now each one works and drives normally and the SES light isn't on, but I see this in the Malf Codes display. The screen cap doesn't show it, but the IAT LO 23 blinks in the first column and is solid in the 3rd. The EST code 42 is just solid in the 3rd column. That's knock sensor failure and it's defaulting to the ICM control of timing in the distributor, correct? I think my question is about how to read this malfunction code table in EBL.

[Gojira94]

I disconnected the battery for a few minutes and tried again. This time I only got the code 23 blinking in the first column. I read somewhere recently that it's normal for it to do that. No other codes in any column. It drives really well. Very happy with how it runs on the EBL in stock form. If anyone more familiar with EBL Flash than me can briefly explain what the 3 Malf Code table columns are about I'd appreciate it.

[Gojira94]

My apologies for lack of updates. It's been a slow month. Trying to get a few things sorted out in prep for the go fast portion of the project. All I've managed to do is install the FPR and salad bowl. I debated on where to mount the regulator and settled on the inboard stud for the master cylinder on the brake booster. I just bent the 13301's bracket to a 90* angle. I'll add a pic a little later. Rebuilt transmission is a blast with 2500 stall and 3.73s. Picked up a decent Derale cooler to take care of it as well. I did bite the bullet on the Holley TBI intake, know what I'm up against to make it work. Running the earlier EGR on it, and Professional Products makes an adapter that rotates it out of the way of the IAC connector. Pics of some of that later on as well.

[Gojira94]

One more update, nothing exciting. I replaced the fuel pump with the EP381. Did the tank from the bottom after pretty much running it out of gas since it didn't have much in it when I got it, havn't put any in it since June 2016. I found the filler neck ground strap hanging loose (yikes). The fuel sender ground wire outside the tank was 2 pieces of wire with a wire nut and a lot of electrical tape around that (more yikes). Fuel line fittings at the tank are 19mm/16mm. I replaced the o-rings on the couplers on the tank side. BWD makes a pair for$3.99, BWD part # 27478, same as the Fuel line to TBI fittings o-rings, available at most parts stores. Observations/ conclusions- The pump has been obviously replaced before, found an Airtex E3902 inside the tank (stock replacement). The EP381 kit's rubber foot isn't qute a direct fit on the bottom support for the pump but holds fine when the strainer is on. I used a 50 micron strainer, Spectra A02STR. I capped everything on the tank once it was out and did a proper splice on the sending unit ground wire, with heat shrink sleeve and a proper connector on the end. The rear tank strap can be a real pain to get back in. The front one I just pulled the nuts for its bracket off the frame rail. I did all this on grass, lying on a sheet of cardboard, lol. To slide the tank out from under I just jacked the truck up by the diff and slid the tank out from the driver' side and used the same method to slide it back under, then lowered it again. I know a lot a folks are fans of doing the bed lift on the driver's side but I see no need for the trouble on a 2WD truck without all the extra shields a 4WD has.

I had issues with the dry 0-100psi gauge on the regulator. Wouldn't register anything, even with the 0-20psi spring in the regulator maxed out. I contacted the vendor and am awaiting a response. I bought the gauge in Late December. Their warranty is 30 days on everything, which I'd expect for their nitrous parts, but I'm hoping they'll pony up and do the right thing for a DOA gauge on first install. They have a great reputation on ls1tech so I'm cofident they'll be willing to help. Meantime I just grabbed a 0-15psi Mr. Gasket carb gauge and set it at 12psi running. Everything is good for fuel system to support the heads and cam swap, just need to be able to set pressure with the 20-60psi spring when the time comes. At worst I'll bite the bullet and get an Aeromotive wet gauge with the pressure relief button on it if I can't get help on the (dead) dry one.

I'm thinking about doing the exhaust and wideband next. The most it will cost me is a cheap pair of header gaskets to throw away when I do the top end work.

[Gojira94]

My world kind of blew up 3 days after the last update, not much of anything done for a while. Just wanted to say I haven't given up and I will be back with more updates in the next couple of months. Thanks to all who have had feedback and been helpful answering questions so far.

Thanks,

Rob

[Gojira94]

I did follow the advice of Dave W and Fast355 and bite the bullet and seek out a good pair of completely reconditioned, flow matched 80#/hr. injectors (5235231). The more I read about taking the 5235206 61#/hr. above 28-30psi the more I became convinced I needed to go bigger. So I'll be around 22-23psi on the 13301 regulator at WOT, much more comfortable with that. The only things I'm lacking at this point are time, a place to do the work and pushrods, lol. Though I do have a length checker for when the time comes.

Funny thing, I ran across a 94 LT1 F-body cam from a project back in 2009. Looks like it got some moisture exposure and has light rust in a couple places. I'll clean it up and post a pic, maybe someone can use it.

[Gojira94]

It's been a long time but I'm back with updates on this. I had the truck together and running pretty well. Something I overlooked in the cooling system stuck the thermostat on the way back from the beach here in NC and I blew a head gasket about 30 min from home. It limped home gamely and I parked it. A family friend who has a large shop on his farm invited me to do whatever work I needed to there so my problem of where to work has been solved.

I pulled the intake and this L05 has no hydraulic roller provisions whatsoever, so I ordered a .040 over 4 bolt main reman short block (880 'Vortec' block). The old engine was fitted with Fel-Pro 7733PT-2 .039" gaskets, heads look very fresh inside and out, almost no rust. The block is a 10054727. My guess is this is a low buck reman engine a PO had dropped in. I'll clean it up when it's out and see if I can find a VIN on it anywhere, out of curiosity. Right now I have 6 bolts to go before pulling it as a short block: 2 engine mount, top 2 trans bolts, 2 bolts for the oil cooler. My gut says keep the oil cooler and have the lines redone, rather than delete it or replace the lines with a pair of aftermarket ones. Opinions welcome on that. This truck will see some but not a lot of towing.

I'm reusing: knock sensor, OPSU and its stem, coolant temp sender in head, oil pan, timing cover, damper, flexplate.

New: timing set (12371043), LS7 lifters, 1.6 Summit stainless RRs, MH55 oil pump with welded pickup & new dist shaft.

Full list of other new parts I'll update later but includes Promaxx 2169 heads set up for HR cam, Comp 08-422-8 cam, Mahle 5746 head gaskets (Nitroseal, .026, 4.125) instead of the .015 shims I had planned on with the -12.3cc dished pistons in the old L05. New short block has -6.7cc slugs .025 in the hole.

Static CR I've calculated at 9.93:1 and DCR 8.16:1. Since I'm running the EBL Flash ECM I figure I can create a tune very conservative on timing for 87 octane if I really want to and another for 91 octane and maybe yet another slightly more aggressive if I want to run some 93 and milk a couple more degrees here and there.

I'll post some pics and add pics back to some earlier posts. What I need to focus on fairly soon is getting some feedback on the new VE tables I created a while back as well as get a timing table put together for first startup. I'll likely try using the 61pph injectors for first startup so as not to deal with rich issues trying to seat the rings. They should be able to deliver enough up at around 17-18psi to get to 4500RPM safely for engine braking segments of the ring seating.

Back within a couple days with what I have in EBL Flash. It's good to be back. :) :thumbsup:

[Gojira94]

Also, I'm using the Holley 300-49 intake and have worked out all the bracket stuff using stock brackets with a slight bench grinder shave in a couple of spots. More on that with pictures as well. Throttle body is a worked 46mm unit from dctrumpet on TGO. Also using a 1" spacer from Jegs and the salad bowl.

[Fast355]

It's been a long time but I'm back with updates on this. I had the truck together and running pretty well. Something I overlooked in the cooling system stuck the thermostat on the way back from the beach here in NC and I blew a head gasket about 30 min from home. It limped home gamely and I parked it. A family friend who has a large shop on his farm invited me to do whatever work I needed to there so my problem of where to work has been solved.

I pulled the intake and this L05 has no hydraulic roller provisions whatsoever, so I ordered a .040 over 4 bolt main reman short block (880 'Vortec' block). The old engine was fitted with Fel-Pro 7733PT-2 .039" gaskets, heads look very fresh inside and out, almost no rust. The block is a 10054727. My guess is this is a low buck reman engine a PO had dropped in. I'll clean it up when it's out and see if I can find a VIN on it anywhere, out of curiosity. Right now I have 6 bolts to go before pulling it as a short block: 2 engine mount, top 2 trans bolts, 2 bolts for the oil cooler. My gut says keep the oil cooler and have the lines redone, rather than delete it or replace the lines with a pair of aftermarket ones. Opinions welcome on that. This truck will see some but not a lot of towing.

I'm reusing: knock sensor, OPSU and its stem, coolant temp sender in head, oil pan, timing cover, damper, flexplate.

New: timing set (12371043), LS7 lifters, 1.6 Summit stainless RRs, MH55 oil pump with welded pickup & new dist shaft.

Full list of other new parts I'll update later but includes Promaxx 2169 heads set up for HR cam, Comp 08-422-8 cam, Mahle 5746 head gaskets (Nitroseal, .026, 4.125) instead of the .015 shims I had planned on with the -12.3cc dished pistons in the old L05. New short block has -6.7cc slugs .025 in the hole.

Static CR I've calculated at 9.93:1 and DCR 8.16:1. Since I'm running the EBL Flash ECM I figure I can create a tune very conservative on timing for 87 octane if I really want to and another for 91 octane and maybe yet another slightly more aggressive if I want to run some 93 and milk a couple more degrees here and there.

I'll post some pics and add pics back to some earlier posts. What I need to focus on fairly soon is getting some feedback on the new VE tables I created a while back as well as get a timing table put together for first startup. I'll likely try using the 61pph injectors for first startup so as not to deal with rich issues trying to seat the rings. They should be able to deliver enough up at around 17-18psi to get to 4500RPM safely for engine braking segments of the ring seating.

Back within a couple days with what I have in EBL Flash. It's good to be back. :) :thumbsup:

Very similar to what I am working with in the Express van. I kept the 12cc factory pistons though. Assault racing 205cc heads I bought bare and built. Custom grind 215/224 @ .050 comp cam on a 110 LSA. Scropion 1.7 roller rockers. 0.568/0.568 lift. GM 0.28" compressed head gaskets. LS7 lifters, comp magnum pushrods, 5/16 guide plates, 7/16 stud, high pressure standard volume mellings 454 oil pump, mildon windage tray. I am actually tearing the upper end down this weekend again for a TPI top end. I have been wanting to swap out the marine intake for the TPI intake for some time. Ported Edelbrock 3817 Vortec TPI base, siamese ported SLP runners, ported plenum and a 58mm LT1 throttle body.

[Gojira94]

Very similar to what I am working with in the Express van. I kept the 12cc factory pistons though. Assault racing 205cc heads I bought bare and built. Custom grind 215/224 @ .050 comp cam on a 110 LSA. Scropion 1.7 roller rockers. 0.568/0.568 lift. GM 0.28" compressed head gaskets. LS7 lifters, comp magnum pushrods, 5/16 guide plates, 7/16 stud, high pressure standard volume mellings 454 oil pump, mildon windage tray. I am actually tearing the upper end down this weekend again for a TPI top end. I have been wanting to swap out the marine intake for the TPI intake for some time. Ported Edelbrock 3817 Vortec TPI base, siamese ported SLP runners, ported plenum and a 58mm LT1 throttle body.

That will be one fun van... is your block decked? The best I could come up with on my old block or another offering where I got my SB, both with -12.3cc dish, was a hair over 9:1 with the 7733SH-1 shims or almost 8.9:1 with the .028GM 4.1 bore gasket. That would have been very 87 friendly but would have given me a quench of over .070 with pistons .025 in the hole. IMHO reman short blocks should be decked and finished to .012 - .015 in the hole for flexibility either way and put quench range between .035 - .050 max. My quench will be a little looser than I'd find ideal but should be ok at .051. Most GM crate engines have quench looser than that with no detonation issues on 87.

Your cam has me intrigued. What's the IVC ABDC? Wondering what kind of DCR that cam gives and what dynamic cranking pressure would be. I calculated my DCP at 162.22PSI. Good thing to know when doing a compression test down the road some day.

[Fast355]

That will be one fun van... is your block decked? The best I could come up with on my old block or another offering where I got my SB, both with -12.3cc dish, was a hair over 9:1 with the 7733SH-1 shims or almost 8.9:1 with the .028GM 4.1 bore gasket. That would have been very 87 friendly but would have given me a quench of over .070 with pistons .025 in the hole. IMHO reman short blocks should be decked and finished to .012 - .015 in the hole for flexibility either way and put quench range between .035 - .050 max. My quench will be a little looser than I'd find ideal but should be ok at .051. Most GM crate engines have quench looser than that with no detonation issues on 87.

Your cam has me intrigued. What's the IVC ABDC? Wondering what kind of DCR that cam gives and what dynamic cranking pressure would be. I calculated my DCP at 162.22PSI. Good thing to know when doing a compression test down the road some day.

Block is a stock deck, 2005ish GM 1-ton Vortec 350 crate engine. Hecho en Mexico. Where are you calculating your quench from? The top of the piston recess? My pistons are 0.025" down. The GM ZZ4 and 330 HP 350 HO ran 0.051" compressed head gaskets when they were built. The ZZ4 had flat tops and L98 aluminum heads and the 330 hp 12cc dished with Vortecs. I feel the slight compression difference advertised between the factory Vortec engine and the 330 HP crate is due to the head gasket.

[Fast355]

Running the numbers in my setup has an IVCL of 33.5° ABDC @ 0.050 and 61° ABDC @ 0.006. Static compression calculates out at 9.41:1 and Dynamic is 8.36 as calculated by Silvolites calculator. Heads are right at 62cc even though they are 64cc advertised, guess it has to do with the valve choice. I am cranking 180 psi at 700 ft elevation. Overlap is 57°.

[Gojira94]

Block is a stock deck, 2005ish GM 1-ton Vortec 350 crate engine. Hecho en Mexico. Where are you calculating your quench from? The top of the piston recess? My pistons are 0.025" down. The GM ZZ4 and 330 HP 350 HO ran 0.051" compressed head gaskets when they were built. The ZZ4 had flat tops and L98 aluminum heads and the 330 hp 12cc dished with Vortecs. I feel the slight compression difference advertised between the factory Vortec engine and the 330 HP crate is due to the head gasket.

I'm using the rudimentary method for calculating quench. Volume of cylinder from top of piston to deck height (.025) + compressed gasket thickness (.026) = .051"

My SCR I used the calculator at CSG's site (http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html) and DCR with the calculator at Wallace Racing's site (http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php). I'm calculating at 340' altitude for mine, just above the sandhills region of NC. I asked about intake valve closing after BDC to get a ballpark of how much DCR you'd be running. You have more than I thought you might. A lot of folks I've heard say above 7.8-8.0 you'll want to run gas with an octane rating higher than 87 vs. detonation. Being that almost all 87 octane fuels have 10% ethanol it actually pads that ever so slightly. How much would be pure speculation. But I'm accounting for the difference in stoich for ethanol blended fuels in my EBL/TunerPro stuff.

[Fast355]

I'm using the rudimentary method for calculating quench. Volume of cylinder from top of piston to deck height (.025) + compressed gasket thickness (.026) = .051"

My SCR I used the calculator at CSG's site (http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html) and DCR with the calculator at Wallace Racing's site (http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php). I'm calculating at 340' altitude for mine, just above the sandhills region of NC. I asked about intake valve closing after BDC to get a ballpark of how much DCR you'd be running. You have more than I thought you might. A lot of folks I've heard say above 7.8-8.0 you'll want to run gas with an octane rating higher than 87 vs. detonation. Being that almost all 87 octane fuels have 10% ethanol it actually pads that ever so slightly. How much would be pure speculation. But I'm accounting for the difference in stoich for ethanol blended fuels in my EBL/TunerPro stuff.

I have never run this engine on 87. Even STOCK on the stock tuning it had knock retard on 87 octane. The GM 395 Marine cam made it worse at 9.6 static. It was about 8.4:1 dynamic. I have had this engine drinking E85 with a flex fuel operating system for some time. With the old setup it had to have a very conservative timing map on 93. After E85 I was able to give it a healthy timing bump and gained power everywhere. With this setup I will be happy if I can run a good timing advance curve on 93. I also have a cooling system that never runs more than about 190°F on the hotest day.

[Gojira94]

It's been a little slow getting through the new short block. Every fastener and component being re-used has to be cleaned and some of it painted. Right now I've got the bottom end buttoned up, cam installed, timing set and cover on. First I painted the block (boring black) I repainted the oil pan, timing cover and will be painting the brackets on the manifold (also boring black). Water pump is almost new and fine. I still have some Old Ford Blue, thought that would look decent on an expendable part like the water pump. The aluminum accessory brackets need a good cleaning before they go back on.

The short block was advertised as being stock deck height/ .025 in the hole but eyeball evidence suggests otherwise. The china walls are still smooth but the pistons look a lot closer than .025 to the deck. Also, there are telltale machining marks on the deck. I went to some degree of trouble to acquire the Mahle 5746 .026" Nitroseal gaskets and I may not be able to use them. In some ways it may be a good thing, I may be able to shave a little off the compression ratio and tighten the quench at the same time. Anyway, here's a few pics. First one is the old short block (10054727 casting with 14088535 cast crank). Others are the new one.

[Gojira94]

This block has definitely been decked. Pistons in the hole:
1 .013
3 .015
5 .017
7 .017
2 .012
4 .014
6 .015
8 .017

I'd just call it a .015" deck height block. .008"-.013" below factory .025" deck height. With the Mahle 5746 gasket quench would go from .051" to between .038"-.043" which would be closer to ideal. Static CR would bump slightly and I'll have to go back to the calculators on that but I think SCR would be around 10.2:1. If this short block was the other offering with -12.3cc dish pistons I'd be shitting in high cotton on CR vs 87 pump gas in the mid-9s. I'll play around with the head gasket numbers in the .033"-.035" range and see if I find a happier medium. But if I'm above 8.1:1 DCR/ 9.7:1 SCR I don't think I'll be looking much different.

[Gojira94]

I carefully taped off the RMB seal housing and painted the back of the block, got the water jackets and all bolt holes on the deck cleaned out of the crate oil/ preservative and got the heads on. One word about the heads- for a $900 pair of heads I figured there might be one or two issues that come up. The holes for the dowels on the deck were slightly off or too small. They may have missed the finish work on those. Both sides I had to ever so gently open the holes up with a 5/16" drill bit, but after that they settled right down. My other concerns will be with the pushrod clearance and alignment to the casting. I can handle both. These heads have gotten high praise from Skip White and veteran porter Tony Sizemore at HeadBytes. Say what you will about Tony, but he did a video series of the 200cc head where ProMaxx gave him bare castings to cut up and analyze when AFR, TrickFlow, etc wouldn't do it.

I still have a number of things on the list to get it finished and buttoned up, including but far from limited to:
Finish cleaning and painting external parts like pulley, engine mount brackets, water pump, topside brackets
Clean front accessory brackets
Prep and install lifters, retainers & spider
Install intake, 180* thermostat, water neck
Figure out brake booster plumbing fitting size
Figure out heater to intake hose plumbing
Flush Radiator
Flush heater core
Clean oil cooler lines/ fittings
Install oil cooler block to engine block
Clean PS pump and double check for leaks

But anyway, here's some pics. Today I'll be digging out the tuning work I started in January 2017 and start getting feedback and help with that. Again, this is going to be EBL Flash driven with VRFPR. Wish I had a week off from work to just dive in and get it all done uninterrupted. :)

[Gojira94]

Rather old first attempt at building and smoothing a VE table, based on... gut I guess. No idea if I'm even close but this is what I started with, dreaming back in Dec. 2016. screen shots of both graphs as well. For spark tables I considered working with Vortec head stock tables as a fairly conservative ballpark, maybe even stock aluminum head LTI F body tables and dialing it back pretty broadly since classic Gen I SBC isn't reverse cooled. No chance of making 46* anywhere like an LT1, especially at 10.2:1 lol. This is where I really have no idea to build a spark table. I still think the Vortec tables are decent place to start, maybe something like an aluminum headed L98 as a base? The ProMaxx 2169 heads' flow numbers are well published, they post them on their site, Skip White measured them a year ago, I think HotRod magazine online had a budget head shootout with flow numbers when they were still Patriot heads, though I'm pretty sure that was a previous design.

[Gojira94]

Haven’t touched it for 12 days until tonight, very brief time spent. Cleaned up the spider I acquired from a boneyard LT1 D body. Also soaked the new lifters in virgin mineral spirits for an hour to clean them. Blew them dry with air and put them in the oil bath until tomorrow evening.

What I have been able to do is study the hell out of VE and spark tables from a variety of engines similar to what I’m putting together. I’m most familiar with F body LT1s. With a 218/224 - .528/.535 cam in 185cc aluminum heads I’m not too far away from an LT4’s flow characteristics. I’m a tiny bit bigger on cam, tiny bit smaller on heads (heard LT4s were 190cc heads, maybe not accurate). My goal is to put together a better 2nd attempt on the VE tables and take a stab at the spark tables in the bin and upload that in a couple of days. Scrutiny of more experienced guys would be welcomed.

[Fast355]

Haven’t touched it for 12 days until tonight, very brief time spent. Cleaned up the spider I acquired from a boneyard LT1 D body. Also soaked the new lifters in virgin mineral spirits for an hour to clean them. Blew them dry with air and put them in the oil bath until tomorrow evening.

What I have been able to do is study the hell out of VE and spark tables from a variety of engines similar to what I’m putting together. I’m most familiar with F body LT1s. With a 218/224 - .528/.535 cam in 185cc aluminum heads I’m not too far away from an LT4’s flow characteristics. I’m a tiny bit bigger on cam, tiny bit smaller on heads (heard LT4s were 190cc heads, maybe not accurate). My goal is to put together a better 2nd attempt on the VE tables and take a stab at the spark tables in the bin and upload that in a couple of days. Scrutiny of more experienced guys would be welcomed.

LT4 heads are195cc with 2.00/1.55 valves. Their smallish chambers have them at 10.8:1 with the flat top piston. The cam is 203/210 @ .050 and they run 1.6 roller rockers from GM.

I have 205cc copies of Dart Pro1 Platinums on the L31 in my Express van. With a 215/224 cam and 1.7 roller rockers. With the MAF disabled I had to add a good bit of VE above 2,500 rpm. With SD disabled the MAF only required slight tweaking in the lower rpm, lighter load areas to get the fueling back to optimal. Once they were both fixed it was noticeably smoother and stronger across the whole RPM range. Converter stalls 2,500 rpm and I have 4.56 gears with the 30.5" tall tires. I turn 2,600 rpm @ 70 mph in OD. With the travel trailer in tow I have found any real grade has me in 3rd @ 3,500 rpm and if the climb is long enough or steep enough I have plenty of RPM left in 2nd gear if needed as well. 2nd puts me at 5,200 rpm @ 70. My shift points in Tow/Haul let it grunt a bit though and I do not downshift to 2nd unless I am under 65 mph in Tow/Haul.

[Gojira94]

LT4 heads are195cc with 2.00/1.55 valves. Their smallish chambers have them at 10.8:1 with the flat top piston. The cam is 203/210 @ .050 and they run 1.6 roller rockers from GM.

I have 205cc copies of Dart Pro1 Platinums on the L31 in my Express van. With a 215/224 cam and 1.7 roller rockers. With the MAF disabled I had to add a good bit of VE above 2,500 rpm. With SD disabled the MAF only required slight tweaking in the lower rpm, lighter load areas to get the fueling back to optimal. Once they were both fixed it was noticeably smoother and stronger across the whole RPM range. Converter stalls 2,500 rpm and I have 4.56 gears with the 30.5" tall tires. I turn 2,600 rpm @ 70 mph in OD. With the travel trailer in tow I have found any real grade has me in 3rd @ 3,500 rpm and if the climb is long enough or steep enough I have plenty of RPM left in 2nd gear if needed as well. 2nd puts me at 5,200 rpm @ 70. My shift points in Tow/Haul let it grunt a bit though and I do not downshift to 2nd unless I am under 65 mph in Tow/Haul.

That's right, I conveniently forgot LT1/LT4 heads have 58-53cc chambers, noticeably smaller than my 64cc. I'm running a 2.02 intake and 1.6 exhaust valve. 2200-2500 stall converter in front of a built 700R4 and 3.73s. I'm thinking (stop me if I'm wrong) that my engine's overall VE is higher than either the LT1 or LT4 but similar enough that I can base at least some of what I need from them, scaled up to start with. Timing I'm thinking Vortec tables provided in EBL and multiply by about 4-5% and mostly focus on crank and idle timing (like as much as 12-14* cranking and 8-10* idle, maybe a hair more). If it starts on what I throw at it I'll be happy, if it runs well enough to drive a short distance and seat the rings I'll be ecstatic. Though I don't see if going over the center field wall on the first swing. I'm all MAP/SD with no IAT (yet).

[Gojira94]

Lifters and retainers installed, did paint the water pump Old Ford Blue. Hope to get the intake on after I check the pushrod clearance in the heads. I have 3 that are looking a bit close. I think the min. clearance is supposed to be .060" with rockers centered across the valve stems. We'll see soon enough if I need 2 piece guide plates to help with that.

[Gojira94]

I started mocking up the valve train using a spare set of 7.2” pushrods from a 64,000 mile LT1. ARP 3/8” studs and Summit stainless 1.6rr. Guide plates are Dart 1 piece. The valves and studs are very slightly offset so there is a small angle split for the rockers to be centered across the tip of the valves. I tweaked the plates under the studs back and forth and checked the clearance for the pushrods at the optimal locations and the clearance from the head castings is adequate for 5/16” pushrods so that’s one worry eliminated.3/8” would require additional clearancing for sure. Looking at the resting position of the rockers on the closed valves it looks like 7.2” will be very close to correct length but I will definitely measure once I get the studs and plates locked down.

The Summit rockers are ok though one is in need of cleanup in the stud hole. Bad news is the poly locks are garbage, out of concentric and have thread issues (10 of 16 are junk). ARP makes replacements for those too, lol. The locators for the poly locks are also too narrow for the poly locks included with my Comp stud girdles, which I was going to use anyway. So... I think for now I may run without girdles and pick up a set of better quality rockers in the not too distant future. I think I’m pretty far past return on these rockers but I’ll check with Summit on Monday. They were like $199 and if I can pay the difference on something better that works with the girdles I may go ahead and pull the trigger on Monday. Always issues with any build, this is the penalty for trying to find a stainless 3/8” 1.6 rocker set under $200. Duh.

[Gojira94]

Replacement rocker arms should be here today and I can get the pushrod measurement finalized. I mocked up the intake and made sure the brackets for the MAP and the throttle will clear the valve covers and work as intended. The ESC module I'm going to mount on the rear pass. side corner of the intake pad with a small handmade bracket of some sort. Got the oil cooler block mounted with new o-ring, internal gasket and quick connect fittings, hoses are in good shape and cleaned up. Got the damper and crank belt pulley on as well. Engine mount brackets are on. Just about ready to go back in with it. Plenty to do after that to get it ready to start as well.

Sorry this thread is almost all mechanical so far, tuning will come soon. Every tuner I've ever talked to says to make sure you have no mechanical issues before tuning or you're asking to go around in circles. So I'm taking the time to do this as correctly as I'm able in the pockets of time I have to get things done.

[Gojira94]

Long overdue update. I swapped the Summit rocker arms for some Scorpions. Stud girdle is in, pushrods measured out at exactly 7.2", intake is installed, distributor is within 2* of zero with #1 at TDC. Found a crack in the oil cooler housing when I primed the oiling system. Found one in the local boneyard for $6. It's pretty much ready to drop back in and start buttoning everything back up. A little over a week ago I went back to the tune and tried to make some decent progress. Some is based on educated guesswork. Bin file and change log attached, as well as a worksheet I started putting together to compare spark and VE parameters between stock TBI, Vortec, LT1, LT4 and an LT1 Cadillac with a towing package option. Here's what I haven't addressed yet in the tune, notes about what I need to cover:

AE - Acceleration Enrichment parameters
HotRST - Hot restart parameters
Find and set idle parameters
Find SA Latency on the Ramjet distributor's ignition module for "SA - Latency" table
Tune out EGR*
Engine and Vehicle Speed Limiting
IAC parameters


1104060 distributor, used on the fuel injected Ram Jet 350 and Ram Jet 502. Includes ignition module P/N 10482830, cap P/N 19166099 and rotor P/N 10477219.

[Gojira94]

Ok, so it's been a while and I'm closer to having it running. Sorry for not posting for a month. I haven't touched the tune since last update. I went through and tried harder to wrap my head around what I'd really need to change for AE and HotRST and concluded that percentages are derived from what already exists for base fueling and I probably don't need to change that, at least for now. I found idle stuff and left it where it was, will see how it does with 850RPM in park and in gear. I don't think I'll need to bump that up any, may see if I can get away with slightly lower if required vacuum for brakes and tolerates it and it's adequate for keeping idle fueling down to 13psi on vac. ref. Anyway, here's some pics.

[Gojira94]

Finally got it buttoned up and fired off on Oct. 7th. Hurricane Florence interrupted a lot during September. 2 days later I was asked to do a resto to road ready on a 2005 Volvo V50 so that's been all my spare time since. That's pretty much done so I'm looking to getting back on the truck. I did a 15 mile drive with datalog and it's pretty fat mostly everywhere so I took a 2nd whack at more realistic VE tables and going back through the tune in little pockets of time I had since early October.

Here's a vid from the first startup. The oil behind is from a tractor, lol. In the video I remind myself to put the MAP sensor bracket back on (was in the way of setting base timing on the dist.)


https://youtu.be/IjU4LSi-Q1E

Hopefully I will have more time for this before crazy holiday time hits. At any rate, sorry to be absent, I haven't given up just busy with life stuff.

[notime2d8]

That sounds great. waiting to see how it runs. Are you going to get it dyno'd?