1989 749 and 1990 707 have almost identical wiring

[BigBanks78]

Ok I bought a 749 off eBay and started collecting things to read about it and found a thread about a guy having hard time with a bunch of conveluted spark table, which is problem I'm having with 707. Lots of spark tables and lots of problems with spark.

Anyway I compared the wiring diagram from 1989 sunbird gt turbo to my 1990 grand am 707 and only diff I found was waste gate wire where 707 has a/c wire aldl wire one pin off fuel injector control had one wire down on diagram and 2 other wires were different but all wires were only 1 pin away except a/c control.

Does this mean mean I can use a 707 with same masks as 749 or just a coinsidence??

Im always grateful for any help!!!
Thanks everyone

[1project2many]

There is Quad 4 code that will work with both ecm's. There are differences in hardware which seem to prevent the 707 from working with the turbo Sunbird code.

[1project2many]

There is another wiring difference for some years / code masks. Some of the "not 7749 equipped" Q4 engines have an additional connection between the ignition module and the ecm. I believe, from memory, it is a 1X signal and if it is not present the code will not generate ignition pulses. I can try to get more details if you're interested.

[BigBanks78]

There is another wiring difference for some years / code masks. Some of the "not 7749 equipped" Q4 engines have an additional connection between the ignition module and the ecm. I believe, from memory, it is a 1X signal and if it is not present the code will not generate ignition pulses. I can try to get more details if you're interested.


Yea I would b interested but only if ur not doing anything else. I feel like I waste people's time on here cuz I've been screwing with this thing for almost 2 years and made so little progress, and really don't understand why I'm having so many problems. I can't watch knock cuz one knock make full retard until ignition is turned off and no matter what I do nothing stops it from going way lean when mat goes below about 90 degrees F. I'm going to try this 749 with code59 because more people use it and maybe easier for a luddite to use. It feels like I'm tuning a psycho woman, nothing u do pleases her and she turns complements into a nasty comment :scare: lol

anyway I'm searching and reading stuff to use this quad-4 ignition with the 749 and have been looking at a 59 bin from the syty s10 but I haven't read anything that says "this is how u do it" with the ignition and there's so many terms and words I have never seen before in that bin that makes me nervous !!!!

if u can remember off top of ur head any links that may help that would b cool but don't waste to much time cuz I may want to catch this thing on fire!!!!

[BigBanks78]

And THANK YOU!!! For all your help!!

[BigBanks78]

I got the 1227749 today and it has a AMDF MEMCAL but has 89 corsica written on the back. I looked up the wiring diagrams and could only find a 2.8 v6 with the 749 pin out.It says the v6 has the DIS on it, is there a problem using this DIS config or is it that the turbo software that doesn't like The DIS? I keep reading that theres some complicated wiring to do then add 60 degrees, minus 30 then move table to 18.?? for the total timing??

BUT!!! my diagrams do not say what ECM number.....

[1project2many]

There are three important numbers to change, and one more maybe need to change that I can think of. You need to look at the cal you're running and find the reference angle (should be about 60 degrees) the max advance (should be a negative number) and the max retard (should also be a negative number). Copy each one into the $59 calibration you want to try. If your engine uses the 1X ignition wire you can disconnect or disable it. Don't use the V6 numbers. They may be close but you're better off with the right values.

EagleMark was working on putting DIS on a Toyota at one point. There is a huge thread with a ton of info, but it goes back and forth and may be confusing. This post does have Q4 wiring diagrams: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1997-Ideas-for-4-cylinder-MPFI-Toyota-22RE-with-GM-ECM&p=31488&viewfull=1#post31488

[BigBanks78]

Ill Read more of it later but I did look at the diagrams, I havent tried to find a 708 but the diagram looks the same as the 88 quad 4 diagram im comparing to my 90. My 1990 has a Crank sensor input wire from ignition module to ECM where the older ones do not have the crank sensor input to ECM. Im thinking just remove that wire and put other wires in the right place and try it... I have another ig module from different year with less pins than the one Im using, I just though of, so Ill go dig it out and see which wires are not there. Not sure what would happen, if anything, if that wire isn't hooked up, incase module wants that wire.

When you say "1X wire" what does that mean? 1x a signal or is that the name of wire....I have learned more than anything that i know very little about this stuff!!
By the way my spark ref angle is 74, not sure if that matters...

Thanks again!!! I really appreciate your time and help!!!

[1project2many]

1X means one pulse per crank revolution. It's the crank sensor signal. Leave it disconnected from the 7749.

[BigBanks78]

1X means one pulse per crank revolution. It's the crank sensor signal. Leave it disconnected from the 7749.

Ok that makes sense :-) It's the terminology that gets me alot of the time, if I dont see the same words on the wiring diagram I'll b confused but thats 1 more short name you've learned me :-)

Ok you said Max Advance should be a Negative number? Mine says Max Advance Relative to TDC is 60.12, my Max Retard is -9.84, is the +60.12 abnormal?
i compared to AYDX and it says 60.12 in the max retard relative to tdc (no-knock) scaler....whaaaaaat??

[1project2many]

Someone may have set up the definition incorrectly. I happen to have my laptop here at work so I'll try and dig out correct values for you.

[BigBanks78]

I was trying to find the 5C def to look at an 88 or whatever this AMDF is but couldn't. I used an xdf labeled _8B, I also downloaded one that starts with $8B..???2014. When I get to work I'm gonna try to read a couple stock chips in the $8B and reread my 91 and 89 chips.....so tuning a car with 60 max advance is not good? Is that y I've turned timing so far up? Like 30 degrees in some places.

oh and what does the "SPARK ANGLE" refer to? Is this something I can check mechanically? And maybe if max add should b 60.12 maybe -14.76 is what the scaler should b.......-14.76 from 74.88 (spark angle) 60.12 max spark. I have moved a point on timing table to 62.?? Tho

[1project2many]

It looks like the max advance really is +60.12. That's a huge range but that's what they use. Other DIS cars use all negative values.

The spark angle is also known as the reference angle. It's where the notch is in the crankshaft compared to TDC. Later engines put it at 75 degrees. Early engines put it at 60 deg. If your car never ran right without the advance then I'd think you had a mismatch between that number and the crank. But your car ran well until you worked on the head, right? No changes to the crank? So I don't think that's why all the extra advance is needed. You might be able to check the crank angle with an adjustable timing light. If you force timing to zero degrees then the light should show zero degrees. If it's off by 15 degrees retarded then you probably have a 60 degree notch crank. This article talks about crank differences. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/1999/04/rebuilding-the-gm-quad-4/

[BigBanks78]

Ok I'll see if I can use my adjustable light. Bought the donor car with bad head gasket and wrapped head, just fixed up head, valve job, ported and stuck in the fiero. I have a MAT SPARK AD vs MAP vs MAT that is all zeros from 68 degree C and colder, table stops at 44C but MAT on car never gets hotter than 109 F. I just tried upping it as it gets colder from 68C on a stock W41 .bin and seems to run better than I remember but who knows. Intake had radiator cooling fans blowing right on it with MAT sensor in manifold in the stock form so I'm sure it didn't change below running temp much. I read Superbees post about cold weather knock and someone's comment on another thread about not enough timing can cause knock. If I tune it in summer it spark knocks bad in first cold snap and it looses a little power but that's I disabled knock retard. If it sees a knock it retards timing with no recovery and runs like total crap no matter what temp. So that's where I got the idea to slope that table up from 68 and colder. I always have the data error on tunerpro flashing at me when data logging but no codes and have a glitch while watching data stream that flashes all values in the list to maximum for a split second. If your watching 've history table the marker that's moving from cell to cell flashes to farthest bottom right cell and leaves an extremely rich value. I have unplugged everything on car that I can think of one by one like gauges, lights, stereo but always there. I can't get a teach reading from tach wire but it's on data stream so figure I'm just not measuring right. And I don't have the cool features that other masks do like wbo2 logging and auto tune like code59 or even parameter comments, I noticed OD has a pretty good explanation of the parameter but 8B has none at all so learning on this one is kinda hard. :-)
Anyway I'll see about the ref angle. and wonder if throttle body is to small? It's 52 or 53 mm, I read if you need to shift (run out of power)before engine e runs out of rpm to is to small. Every ounce in a while I'll get some feel good power but usually starts going away by 3800-4200. Dang man sorry bout the long reply!!!

[BigBanks78]

Ok I should have started with that MAT SPARK table. I gave it an up ramp as it gets colder and it's been 80 F around here daytime and 60 F at night and felt good driving home then drove it about 10pm and it got just a little lean but still felt ok so gonna raise it a tad and see what happens.

Ive been filling in that code59 bin and the comments help a lot. And read the READ ME DOC and found out what launch mode/control is, which is pretty cool!! Can't do that with a carb :-). I'm going to try and get old sun scope out this weekend and try the adjustable timing light. One of those links u sent had something in it that said 1988 was only year with ref angle different than others but didn't say what the angle was.
Anyway gettin closer, can't wait to get this stuff in, I'd like to know if I screwed this head up!!

and downloaded tunerpro again and glitch doesn't seem to be there anymore?? Haven't data logged yet but "not emulating" light would flash every 45 seconds or so but has not continued after re download, more user error :-)

[BigBanks78]

Hey 1project2many, I have been upping the cold end of the MAT v SPARK v MAP slopping down towards 68c and the car runs better than ever and consistently across temp changes. AND!!! It launches hard as hell!! It stuck my friends head to the seat thru 1st gear and we were both surprised !!! I started with a 1991 axrm, 190horse power w41 bin, changed that MAT table couple times, added a little timing like 2-3 degrees in a couple places, gonna try moving afr to 13.5-14 today from 11.5 stock. But overall I think that did it, I should have started with that table!!The stuff I have read and learned are now working like people say so that's a relief!!!Thank you for all ur help man I do appreciate it!!!!